What does it mean if Hamas win the Palestinian election?

[freethefly 6]

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I'd rather have Bush in office than behind a gun.

He would cause far less damage if behind a gun. As long as no one shows him where the trigger is.

How much of the American taxpayers money did Bush and thugs spend trying to influence the Palestinian election? Seems I heard it was several million dollars. If so, this money could had been used to help right here in the USA, instead of trying to buy an election.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'd rather have Bush in office than behind a gun.

He would cause far less damage if behind a gun. As long as no one shows him where the trigger is.

How much of the American taxpayers money did Bush and thugs spend trying to influence the Palestinian election? Seems I heard it was several million dollars. If so, this money could had been used to help right here in the USA, instead of trying to buy an election.

And the money you spend skydiving could feed lots of hungry children and buy medication for the elderly.

[Alias 0]

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those pictures kinda look like these

Exept for the ones you presented were on a firing range, seemed non political and involved a bunch of hunting rifles vs military weapons.

...I did dig the Hamas Mommy and her son with RPG.....you're right....same thing

Carpe Diem

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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And the money you spend skydiving could feed lots of hungry children and buy medication for the elderly.

yes, because tax money collected by the government and personal disposable income are exactly the same.....[.crazy]

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Exept for the ones you presented were on a firing range, seemed non political and involved a bunch of hunting rifles vs military weapons.

They were pictures of the michigan militia....you are right, no political or ideological convictions behind them at all... [.crazy]

[Gravitymaster 0]

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And the money you spend skydiving could feed lots of hungry children and buy medication for the elderly.

yes, because tax money collected by the government and personal disposable income are exactly the same.....[.crazy]

How do you know any tax dollars were spent?
Why do you care since it wasn't your money?

[rehmwa 2]

This is the worst thread ever and on a pretty important item, potentially.

Anybody comment yet on what it means to the world that Hamas won? Or do we just wait and see what their next set of actions are?

In the meantime, please continue insulting each other and rehashing the same old tripe.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,106]

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Not everyone served in wartime. Not everyone who did serve in war actully went to war. Not everyone who went to war actually fought.

Very true.

Especially those who had "other priorities" and sought deferment after deferment but were happy to let other people die for their country.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Or do we just wait and see what their next set of actions are?"

Gets my vote. People way smarter than me have been trying to second guess Hamas for years.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Gravitymaster 0]

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This is the worst thread ever and on a pretty important item, potentially.

Anybody comment yet on what it means to the world that Hamas won? Or do we just wait and see what their next set of actions are?

In the meantime, please continue insulting each other and rehashing the same old tripe.

Oh, I get it when you make comments like this:

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"C'mon - don't you even feel a little like rolling through Belgium and kicking some ass? just a little?

Everybody's doing it"

It's a serious discussion, huh? Thats your total contribution. At least I've written several posts on topic with my thoughts.

[rehmwa 2]

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Oh, I get it when you make comments like this:

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"C'mon - don't you even feel a little like rolling through Belgium and kicking some ass? just a little?

Everybody's doing it"

dang it, he's on to me

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Oh, I get it when you make comments like this:

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"C'mon - don't you even feel a little like rolling through Belgium and kicking some ass? just a little?

Everybody's doing it"

dang it, he's on to me

Konging your Whopper too much, eh?

[Hackb431 0]

Well here's my thoughts on it. Hamas as a whole obvioulsy cares about their country and way of life strongly enough to fight and die for it. With their new found political power I hope that they use it positivly to further their society without detriment to those around them.

What does scare me a bit is that they don't get along with their neighbor (who happens to be buddies w/ the US) If they decide to engage in open warfare it is inevitable that the US will intervene in some form. I may not agree w/ everything the administration does but I think it was said best in a previous post. "I will leave it to more intelligent and better informed people than me to make those choices."

Let's just all say a prayer that these two societies can find a way to co-exist or at least find a way to leave others out of their scwabble.

HackB A.K.A. "Puppy"

[Michele 1]

Not sure, Rehmwa, what the long term repercussions are. However, there seems to be some infighting going on, with the Fatah movement very angry at Abbas at the moment for losing power. Apparently, there is a "demonstration" going on right now against Abbas by Fatah (and I used the quotes because that's what it looks like, but as all angry demonstrations, the tendency for it to become violent is there).

As for a global view, I think that we are in a waiting period. Bush stated clearly that the US will not work with terrorists, and because of a part of the Hamas platform is terroristic in nature (i.e. the destruction of Israel), there is a wait and see attitude taken.

In a worst case scenario, Hamas links formally with Iran, and the State of Israel is in great danger of yet another war with a neighbor. If that should happen, proxy fighting will occur (nations backing one or the other side, ala Afghanistan), and we will see a resurgence of big kid on the block syndrome, with lots of interestingly formed allies and bedfellows.

Best case scenario, Hamas declares that Israel has a right to exist, clears that off their platform, and we can all start really working for peace.

We won't know, however, until the Israeli elections (in March, iirc) are complete and a new administration is installed. What their direction is, seems to me to be one key factor in what will occur.

So at the moment, it's a waiting game...who will do what with whom, when they will do it, and how it will be carried out. I don't think we can know anything concrete at the moment; things are in great upheaval on both sides of the fence, and until things start to shake down, we just won't quite know.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How do you know any tax dollars were spent?

Well, if it went through the White House and was directed by Bush, I would hope it was tax dollars. Unless off course you think it would be perfectly fine for the President of the US to use private money to influence.

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Why do you care since it wasn't your money?

I don't, but then I was poiinting out that your comparison made absolutely no sense, not complaining about a waste of my money. Making your come back off the mark...again.

[Newbie 0]

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Best case scenario, Hamas declares that Israel has a right to exist, clears that off their platform, and we can all start really working for peace.

They will not go against the policy which got them into power in the first instance.

The way i see it is, if they don't shape up, and they decide to continue with their extremeist ideology, we are looking at open war with the US, and potentially a West VS East (non Islam VS Islam) conflict at worst (and then Osama will have got his wish), and at best, we will see further disentregration of the delicate balance between Israel and Palestine.

It bodes terribly if you ask me.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[crwtom 0]

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Everyone has a skill set let them use thiers. I'd rather have Bush in office than behind a gun.

you may have a point - if he'd handle a gun wiht the same competence
and skill that he's managing governance he'll probably confuse
the front and back end of the gun and shoot himself in the face.

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[juanesky 0]

The war has been open for a while. Tom Friedman did an excelent piece after 9-11.

With comments of "experts" on this thread that don't have a problem stating that "there are only innocent palestinians", this shit can go on 4ever.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Gravitymaster 0]

Your argument is ridiculous. Please provide a source that any tax dollars or private money was spent. Can't do it? Thats what I thought.

But lets take your unsupported allegation one step further. Even if tax dollars were spent, it was done at the discretion of the President who has the responsibility to do whatever is necessary, within the law, to protect US interests.

Believe it or not, this wouldn't be the first time money from one country was spent to infuence the elections in another. I need only to direct you to American Poitics in the 1990's and mention the names James Riaty and Johnny Chung. Not to mention it was the corrupt Democratic Party that funded their elections with money from China.

[Amazon 7]

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Please provide a source that any tax dollars or private money was spent. Can't do it? Thats what I thought

BZZZZZZT WRONG answer.. it was really EASY to find

Our Tax dollars at work

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/21/AR2006012101431.html
RAMALLAH, West Bank -- The Bush administration is spending foreign aid money to increase the popularity of the Palestinian Authority on the eve of crucial elections in which the governing party faces a serious challenge from the radical Islamic group Hamas.

The approximately $2 million program is being led by a division of the U.S. Agency for International Development. But no U.S. government logos appear with the projects or events being undertaken as part of the campaign, which bears no evidence of U.S. involvement and does not fall within the definitions of traditional development work.



Geez I gotta do ALL the work around here

[Gravitymaster 0]

Thanks for the info. It's good to see the President is doing his job and using our money wisely. 2 million bucks? Heck I thought he might be spending some serious money.

[Amazon 7]

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It's good to see the President is doing his job and using our money wisely. 2 million bucks? Heck I thought he might be spending some serious money.

Its still our tax money



OOPS I guess outspending Hamas did not quite work.

Same source

The plan's $2 million budget, although a tiny fraction of USAID's work here, is likely more than what any Palestinian party will have spent by election day. A media consultant for Hamas said the organization would likely spend less than $1 million on its campaign.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I don't, but then I was poiinting out that your comparison made absolutely no sense, not complaining about a waste of my money. Making your come back off the mark...again.

Correction. My comparisons only make no sense to you. No real surprise there. Wasting money is wasting money whether it's your own or tax payers. Certainly one is free to waste their own money on skydiving. Spending money to influence an election to prevent a terrorist organization from winning an election is not a waste of money. To claim so is ridiculous.

My point was simply that you can take any money spent and always point out how it could have been better spent. You could go out to dinner and I could point out the money would have been better eating in. Bush spends money (which he has the authorization to do) trying to influence an election and there is always someone to complain the money could have been better spent [fill in blank] etc, etc, etc.

More about finding something to whine, bitch and moan about, don't you think?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I think this will be seen as declaration of war on Israel by the Palestinian People. They were given a chance between a govt. that wanted to live in peace and make gains through negotiations and one that advocates complete destruction through violence. There are no innocent Palestinians anymore. The People have spoken.

I always have to remind myself that whatever the Palestinians have done, terrorism-wise, over the years, it remains true (based on what info I have learned of the situation) that their land was taken by a group of nations to give to displaced Jews who came from numerous countries around the world. That would piss ANYONE off. It amounts to, essentially, "Hey, you, SCRAM, we have people we like MORE, and we need to house them here, where they claim that thousands of years ago, they used to live."

If the U.N. went to France and told them to get the hell out and make way for some long-ago European tribe's descendants who USED to live there (and gradually lost the territory in battles with other tribes), would France just up and... okay, well, bad example. But you get my meaning.

I am not a partisan in this. It's not my fight.
But I think it is necessary to try to understand the mindset of the people involved.
Would YOU ever give up, if your home was taken from you and given to other people?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[shropshire 0]

I agree....... but you've got an example a lot closer to home..... (There Americas weren't discovered.... cuz theye were'nt lost to the peeps that already lived there.)


History is full of examples of the re-distribution of land. In relation to Israel/Palistine.. we can never put things back to the way they were, So, somehow they have to get on with things. The problem is, that they aren't even playing on a level playing field.... the USA et al are so far up Israels arse, they can do no wrong. Where as the Palistiniens are pretty much always seen as the bad guys right from the start of every encounter.

The answer? fucked if I know, but what I do know is that most arguments are not sorted by force. At some stage they've got to start talking ... or better yet listening!

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome