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QuoteIt had nothing to do with big words. You made a hypothetical about some "other' country.
And then you went and changed and said, what if America were like that and the government confiscated all our weapons. Well if they did that, it kinds blows the whole "bear arms to resist a tyranical government" idea right out of the water, doesn't it? What, with the lack of guns because they took them and all.
The whole point is, IF WE LET THEM TAKE THEM WITHOUT MAKING A FUSS, that's where we'd be if the government turned tyrannical. As in, what if we let the government incrementally ban guns until we had none, or next to none, and THEN it got really oppressive? Where would we be?
And I think he was talking about other countries because in many places that is exactly where they are; IF their governments turn oppressive, the people have already given up, in time of peace and tranquility, the means to fight tyranny when it manifests.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
QuoteI know our government is not tyranical as many countries today are, but what my hypotheticals are stating is that it is possible for our government to be overthrown and it's constitution thrown out. What if, a tyranny was established in this country (or in another) and due to to strict gun control laws all weapons were confiscated. What would a Liberal suggest a citizen do then? There would be no way to rebell because there are no weapons.
What I have found (articulated to me by anti-gun people) is that they think they would be able to use FREE SPEECH to take down a tyrannical regime!
As though any government that could remove from you your right to own weapons would have trouble imprisoning anyone it wished to for speaking out against the government.
Some people actually believe that the right to free speech can pull a citizenry out from under an oppressive government, but the right to put bullets into dictators and their minions would be of no use whatsoever.
Some of these people also inexplicably believe that there would still be some ability of the people to vote out dictatorial government -- as though a dictatorship would put itself up for fuggin' reelection!
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
A rifle against an apache!!!! WTF? man the drugs must be good
hey I take that back ...maybe you could use the rifle to scrape out a hole in the ground to hide in!
hey I take that back ...maybe you could use the rifle to scrape out a hole in the ground to hide in!
kallend 2,108
QuoteQuoteQuote
And what did the guy do?...Sell a weapon with too short of a barrel...That's about it. After the government had shot my wife I wouldn't have given up either. And then how many millions did the Government waste in investigating him prior to this? This is exactly what the 2nd amendment was designed to prevent. Some times I wonder whose side you're on Kallend....
So how did the 2nd Amendment help here? You've lost me.
Whose side am I on? I am on the side of restricting the government's powers to those granted in the constitution, and letting the people have all the others as the 9th and 10th Amendments might suggest.
So, rather than talking in circles, please explain exactly what you would do if you found yourself living in a country other than America. Where the government's powers weren't restricted. Suppose you were living in a place where a leader had total control of you and your family and you all were being screwed by the government on a daily basis. Suppose all the weapons had been confiscated. What would you do then. (Please explain) Tell me how you would think your way out of that one. So far, you aren't making any sense to me either....Steve1
I lived 31 years in a country that wasn't the USA. I found it had a very reasonable constitution too.
I have never owned a firearm so I can't have one confiscated. I am not so stupid as to think any weapon I can own would make me a match for the current US military. By not owning a firearm there is NO chance that I can have a gun stolen and pass into criminal hands. Something you legal gun enthusiasts consistently ignore is the process by which you allow legal guns to become illegal guns.
However, the US HAS its 2nd Amendment, so I think the government should respect it. It should also respect all other parts of the Constitution specifying the rights of the people, including the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th amendments, each of which the government tries to encroach on.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
Quotethey think they would be able to use FREE SPEECH to take down a tyrannical regime!
Sticks and stone can break my bones, but WORDS
those can REALLY hurt....
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 2,108
QuoteQuotethey think they would be able to use FREE SPEECH to take down a tyrannical regime!
Sticks and stone can break my bones, but WORDS
those can REALLY hurt....
India, the worlds largest democratic nation, demonstrated that very nicely during its "fight" for independence.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Sticks and stone can break my bones, but sock puppets, sock puppets really worry me.
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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
steve1 5
Quote[
Whose side am I on? I am on the side of restricting the government's powers to those granted in the constitution, and letting the people have all the others as the 9th and 10th Amendments might suggest.
>>>>But if you are giving the government power to easily confiscate weapons or to make it illegal to own a gun, as you have argued for in many previous posts, how is that limiting the power of the government? It seems to me that you are doing just the opposite.
However, the US HAS its 2nd Amendment, so I think the government should respect it. It should also respect all other parts of the Constitution specifying the rights of the people, including the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th amendments, each of which the government tries to encroach on.
>>>>I agree with all this too. But let's get real here. No, it hasn't happened yet, but just suppose an oppressive government takes over and trashes our constitution. What would a liberal decide to do then. I feel like I keep asking this question and an answer isn't being given. Putting blind faith in a system that can be manipulated doesn't make since to me.
I sincerely hope that our constitution stays in it's present form and is not manipulated by a selfish government. But this might not be the case. When the founders of our constitution drafted that document they too realiized that their system of checks and balances could fail. If it does fail the only option left might be for our people to rebell. So in my mind, having a well armed Militia is as vital today as it was back in 1776.
No it wouldn't be easy to overthrow a corrupt government if that situation ever arose, but it's still possible.
I'd like to think that our constitution is infallable and it will always limit the power of Government, but even the founders of our country knew better than that and part of the 2nd amendment grants freedom to Americans to own weapons in case there ever is a need to take back it's government.
I'm not saying this would be easy. It would create a whole lot of bloodshed and suffering on both sides, and it might even fail. But what other option do oppressed people have? They can either just take it, or they can fight back.
Oh sure the system isn't perfect. Someone could always steal your gun. That is if you are fool hardy enough to let that happen....Steve1
rehmwa 2
Sig line below. Thank you so very much.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 2,108
QuoteQuote[
Oh sure the system isn't perfect. Someone could always steal your gun. That is if you are fool hardy enough to let that happen....Steve1
How many illegal guns are in circulation? How did they get to be illegal? By what process did they change status from legal guns belonging to law abiding citizens?...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
QuoteIndia, the worlds largest democratic nation, demonstrated that very nicely during its "fight" for independence.
And certainly our culture and India's culture as completely identical. So that fits nicely.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
You are more than welcome.
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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
rehmwa 2
QuoteHow many illegal guns are in circulation? How did they get to be illegal? By what process did they change status from legal guns belonging to law abiding citizens?
Didn't Chicago have a "Guns for Toys" program?
It went for 20 days before the local police started to notice all the toys piling up and the gun stock reducing.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
What difference does that make?
He was not speaking of if it were EMOTIONALLY possible for Americans, but that it IS feasible to fight against a government without violence.
What you seem to be implying though is that Americans MUSt solve such problems with violence because we are incapable of such peaceful means.
And these days, I may have to agree.
He was not speaking of if it were EMOTIONALLY possible for Americans, but that it IS feasible to fight against a government without violence.
What you seem to be implying though is that Americans MUSt solve such problems with violence because we are incapable of such peaceful means.
And these days, I may have to agree.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
kallend 2,108
QuoteWhat difference does that make?
He was not speaking of if it were EMOTIONALLY possible for Americans, but that it IS feasible to fight against a government without violence.
What he said.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
JohnRich has you dead-to-rights there, kallend. You want to play both sides of the fence.
It doesn't matter that our forces there are not a tyrannical regime or uninvited "guests." Either our military is able to win against them or not, and either it would be able to win againt an American civilian uprising or not.
John is right; if its applied multi-trillion-dollar might cannot defeat third-world insurgents numbering in the hundreds, perhaps thousands, how the FUCK would it triumph over a few MILLION well-armed, competent, intelligent Americans taking up arms against them -- especially when at least some of them are former military with training and possibly contraband materiel?
You said, "Civil wars always get very much nastier."
Wouldn't that mean it would be HARDER for the government to put down a civil U.S. insurrection? You're belittling the campaign in Iraq as not as nasty as one would be in the U.S., and still the U.S. military has not put down the Iraqi insurrection...
Face it, your side in this is intellectually bankrupt and grasping at straws.
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"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
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