Dolph 0 #1 January 30, 2006 A link to give a little background: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4660796.stm The basic thing behind this is that one of our newspapers made caricatures of the prophet Mohammed. They defend it by saying that they wished to prove there was a lot of "self censorship" regarding the handling of other cultures and that this self censorship threatened freedom of speech and expression. Immediately after the publication there were loud objections (understandably) from Muslim Danes. A few days later, the condemnations spread to the entire world. Our prime minister has stated that he cannot control what the newspapers can print as long as it is within the law. The Saudi regime has responded that he should be able to, because he is in power. Tripoli now says this: Quote Tripoli said Denmark had failed to act against the Jyllands-Posten's cartoons, which showed Muhammad as a terrorist. Our government has responded with: Quote Copenhagen has expressed regret for the furore over the 12 cartoons, but refused to get involved, citing freedom of expression. "The government can in no way influence the media," Mr Rasmussen said on Sunday. "And the Danish government and the Danish nation as such cannot be held responsible for what is published in independent media," he added. The boycott of Danish goods is, I think, fair enough - their prerogative. Sure, they'll hit people unrelated to the incident, but at least it's an action taken within each respective country. The repeated calls for our prime minister to step in is way out of line. The recalling of ambassadors, while a symbolic gesture, is a bit worrying. Doesn't seem to be a "work with us" atmosphere. Should a sovereign democratic nation restrict free speech because it could piss off other nations? Should the people of a nation refrain from doing stuff that in other nations with other religious and moral values, would not be permitted? There's gotta be a fuzzy line somewhere. Gimme a hand at finding it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #2 January 30, 2006 QuoteOur prime minister has stated that he cannot control what the newspapers can print as long as it is within the law. The Saudi regime has responded that he should be able to, because he is in power. That's disgusting. Saudi Arabia is saying that since they have a dictatorship, every country, even democracies, should have dictatorial government that has the power to squash any speech it wishes to? Why is it okay for Saudi Arabia to tell other governments how they should govern, but when the U.S. attempts to show other countries how good FREEDOM under a DEMOCRATIC government can be, we are "pushers" and "imperialists" trying to exert too much unwelcome influence in the world, trying to force our beliefs and values onto sovereign peoples? These fuckers are trying to argue for DICTATORSHIP, for christ's sake! QuoteShould a sovereign democratic nation restrict free speech because it could piss off other nations? Should the people of a nation refrain from doing stuff that in other nations with other religious and moral values, would not be permitted? Absolutely not. If you visit someone's house and they make a practice of taking off shoes at the door, you do it at their house when you visit. Should you have to adopt the same custom at your house just because they might be offended if they find out you don't? When the U.S. attempts to show the world the light of democracy, we are criticized as insensitive to the fact that other countries want to live under the systems they choose, and who are we to insist that our way is better? Now Saudi Arabia is telling the Danish government that it is not dictatorial enough, and should be able to step in and squelch freedom of expression just to protect fuckin' MOHAMED from being made fun of? Fuck them! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 1010 #3 January 30, 2006 It seems simple to me, nothing "fuzzy" at all. Do you wish for Saudi Arabia to censor your press and freedom of speech, or not? If not then your country will have to tell them to go fk off, regardless of the consequences. Boycotts from the arab countries really don't hold much weight because their economies are so small. But if it becomes serious enough (ie oil somehow) you'll find out who your friends are too. Heck maybe I'll be visiting Belgium this summer. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #4 January 30, 2006 I think the caricatures were in poor taste, but it can never be the responsibility of the government - any government - to enforce "good taste". This is a case between a newspaper and whichever muslim was offended. When the arab nations demand that we "punish the criminals" they just don't seem to get it. They aren't criminals here. Oh, and I think this is the first time I have seen pictures of arabs burning a Danish flag. Does that mean I have to buy beer? Edit: Forgot to say that some of the arab countries want UN sanctions against Denmark for this HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sneaky 0 #5 January 30, 2006 I understand Danish humour and even though I have not seen the cartoon Im sure they were not drawn with bad taste in mind. But its like anything in the world, you will not please everyone. I say ' Slick miy voul fizza " !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #6 January 30, 2006 QuoteI understand Danish humour and even though I have not seen the cartoon Im sure they were not drawn with bad taste in mind. Hmm... Judge for yourself: Clicky. I think at least some of them are in poor taste.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #7 January 30, 2006 fuckem if they can't take a joke! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #8 January 30, 2006 I think that a boycott of Danish is a good thing as it will mean more doughnuts for the rest of us. "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #9 January 30, 2006 QuoteThis type of democracy is worthless for Muslims. Muslims will never accept this kind of humiliation. The article has insulted every Muslim in the world. NOW my quote makes sense! Hey, maybe this will turn out good for Denmark... you might not get as many immigrants in the future! Especially since some are quoted in the article as saying, "This type of democracy is worthless for Muslims." Perhaps more Muslims will migrate to Saudi Arabia because they're a "better" Muslim country. It's also "funny", in a strange, sad, and ironic way that, after cartoons depicting Mohammed as a terrorists ran in the paper you see this: Quote"Muslim fundamentalists have threatened to bomb the paper’s offices and kill the cartoonists." Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #10 January 30, 2006 I don't know about you, but I'm getting tired of religious nuts expecting the world to cater to their feelings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #11 January 30, 2006 I think it is hilarious in a tragic kind of way to see Hamas say: "Look! We are democratic. However, we don't intend to give up our weapons. Furthermore you should implement press censorship. Oh, and could you please send more money from the EU?" HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
navspecwar 0 #12 January 30, 2006 Hi. Sneaky. How are ya? More impotantly where so arts thee? Good to see you again, just wondered were "the wouded warrior" was nowadays. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #13 January 30, 2006 QuoteI think that a boycott of Danish is a good thing as it will mean more doughnuts for the rest of us. you can keep it,we dont need to be fat(read joke) Actualy i want to thank "our allied" for NOTHING,how dare Clinton to say that thouse should be sensored i thourght USA were demorcathy,that you guys had the rights to say your oppinion,even if not evryone agrees whith you. That people can deside what they want to belive in,what they want to support. That much for standing together fighting for democrasy and fredom of speach.. So now Muslims world wide burns our nordic flags OUR symbols,so does that mean that we should boycut them? Stop danish redx,stop the mony (yeah look at who ship most mony out like % of their brutto income,can you say 9%)out of our cuntry to their homes to make sure they can live in a better world.Bull sh!t. They demand a apoligy or they will boy cyt us and even hurt us(they even just warned DK troops in Iraqe),becourse we fight for them to get a better life.. Im happy to say that not all muslims are like that.. that many muslims living in DK lives here becourse of the freedome we have here,that they can live they way they like here.That the same muslims dont agree about boy cuts etc etc becourse they know its the DK humor.. Look at our prime minister,he looks like a clown,look at the same drawings of him,they were even worse,but hey thats another thing right.. Im proud that the DK prime minister wont give an apoligy,that he WONT watch what our medias are writing as we has FREEDOM OF SPEACH. Yeah i get angry as ´my fredom of speach is threathen,that "the aliied" dont even stand up,and atleast dont make a fool of us. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #14 January 30, 2006 QuoteActualy i want to thank "our allied" for NOTHING,how dare Clinton to say that thouse should be sensored ... Where'd he say that? If he said that, then he's more of a jack-off than I ever thought. I think Denmark's PM is RIGHT-ON here and I really respect his response to all the nonsensical whining. Good on Denmark!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 January 30, 2006 QuoteI think Denmark's PM is RIGHT-ON here and I really respect his response to all the nonsensical whining. Good on Denmark! totally agree. But even further, he had no reason to "express regret" for the comics. He shouldn't even had stated that little bit. He can "sympathize", he can empathize, but not regret. not one little bit ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #16 January 30, 2006 QuoteWhere'd he say that? If he said that, then he's more of a jack-off than I ever thought. Only place I can find in English right now: ClickyHF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #17 January 30, 2006 I think the regret part was a cave-in to Danish Industry. Food producer Arla expects to lose about 800 million Danish crowns a year on this boycott. The industry group of course first voiced their opinions *after* the boycott had started. It's a bit telling that by using our freedom of speech, we have now become an explicit target for Jihad and terrorism. People have received threats to their lives. Our flag is being burned and our soldiers in Iraq can expect the insurgency to attack them more frequently. In this case, Bush is actually right - "they hate our freedoms". It's such a lame comment in general, but here it's right on. I fear the Danish Muslims will get slapped over the fingers by this. They're the largest minority group in Denmark and their culture isn't regarded highly as it is due to what is perceived as discrimination of women (Denmark is a very egalitarian-minded state) and problems with integration. My impression of Danish culture is that a *lot* of things can be accepted, if not tolerated, but there are some things you just don't mess with. Despite having a state religion, it's a very secular society and attempts to impose religious boundaries generally are not accepted well by the population. Big mess out of nothing. Just found out Denmark donates 13.2 billion Danish crowns in foreign aid in 2007 - or at least 0.8% of the GNP. A good portion of it goes to the Middle East. Boycotts can go both ways, I suppose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #18 January 30, 2006 QuoteOnly place I can find in English right now: Clicky Thanks. It's not as bad as I thought, but poor Clinton is "appalled" by the cartoons. Let's just hope he still beleives in the newspapers' rights to publish whatever they want. Any you're right, remwha, he should have just said that Denmark is a free country where government does not control their press. Any issues should be directed to the paper's editorial pages. It's sad to see that some of the Danish businesses now appear to be catering to the whiners. It'd be nice if some country somewhere stood up to this kind of crap with a unified front. I regret that the US will probably never be the country to do it, but I have hopes that someone eventually will!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #19 January 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteOnly place I can find in English right now: Clicky Thanks. It's not as bad as I thought, but poor Clinton is "appalled" by the cartoons. Let's just hope he still beleives in the newspapers' rights to publish whatever they want. My problem with his statement is primarily that he says that the caricatures themselves contribute to an image of all muslims as militant islamists. This is blatantly wrong. The people acting all up about this, storming an EU office and threatening with bombs are the ones giving muslims a bad name.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #20 January 30, 2006 The latest poll I saw showed that a good majority of those polled felt Denmark should not apologize. Of course the industry is going to object and whine, because they lose money. Fortunately, big business do not have as much influence on politics here as in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #21 January 30, 2006 QuoteThe latest poll I saw showed that a good majority of those polled felt Denmark should not apologize. And they absolutely should not apoligize. In fact, I think the people of Denmark and the newspaper should demand an apology from the muslim countries throwing a fit. Just to say "fuck you". QuoteOf course the industry is going to object and whine, because they lose money. Fortunately, big business do not have as much influence on politics here as in the US. Let's hope that they don't! I was a big fan of Denmark after visiting Aalborg, now I'm an even bigger fan!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #22 January 30, 2006 Hey dude! I was born in Aalborg, used to live there til recently. Am a member of the local skydiving club, too :D. Ya like Jomfru Ane gade? :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #23 January 30, 2006 QuoteYa like Jomfru Ane gade? :D I have no idea what that is. My capacity for learning Danish was diminished by beer. But if that stuff is beer, then yes... I liked it!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #24 January 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteYa like Jomfru Ane gade? :D I have no idea what that is. My capacity for learning Danish was diminished by beer. But if that stuff is beer, then yes... I liked it! If you were in Aalborg, then Jomfru Ane gade would be the street in which you got drunk. Think lots of bars next to each other...HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #25 January 30, 2006 QuoteIf you were in Aalborg, then Jomfru Ane gade would be the street in which you got drunk. Think lots of bars next to each other... Then YES, it was awesome. There are many great places to get drunk, however... the soccer stadium being one of my favorites!Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
