stay away from fat people...

[RhondaLea 4]

I think I can stop posting in this thread now.

The last time we had this argument, I quit because it was hopeless. The fact that even one non-fat person understands the issue is heartening.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[rehmwa 2]

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What proportion......

Well, there are between {so let's distill that down to a couple million for one medical cause?}

The math required to convert the hard number to the requested proportion is left as an exercise for the student.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

Its ok RL... I am fat and you can jump with me any time you want... hell you may even have to ARCH for once.. like Michele did when I videoed her
I should post that jump.... it was fun

[pirana 0]

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Heh Pirana, I'm 145 pounds as it is. Don't need to lose more.

Having said that, my assumption was an average exercise - not a strenous daily 12 hour day full of manual labour.

Put people in concentration camps and stop feeding them and the distribution will be towards the slim end after a while.

I'm not nearly that strict. 2 or 3 hours of exertion daily is good for the body and the soul.

And I'd let you outside the perimeter once a week or so for a movie or something. No butter on the popcorn though.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Hmmm. Replying to my ownpost. Work IS boring today.

Dolph, just wanted to say I liked your earlier post. People are for the most part what they want to be. If a person is OK with their physical self, who am I to criticize.

I have no beef and do not disrespect people because of their body. (Depending on the person though, there could be a certain amount of, um . . . admiration).

The thing I do get tired of is whining without action. That does not apply to the few million with medical conditions.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RhondaLea 4]

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Its ok RL... I am fat and you can jump with me any time you want... hell you may even have to ARCH for once.. like Michele did when I videoed her

If I do start jumping again, it'll be a pleasure.

But I hadn't heard that you are fat. I was under the impression that you're the large economy size, much like my daughter who towers over me.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[rehmwa 2]

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But I hadn't heard that you are fat.

never heard of that. I hear she's old.

She doesn't look old from where I'm sitting. Just opinionated and strong and passionate about all sorts of things. Looks cool from here.

{sorry, Bonfire moment - I'm better now}

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

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I know people who have made weight loss a major quest, and if they're willing to sacrifice good nutrition and live on 600-800 calories a day, they'll lose weight too. But making oneself sick in the process doesn't seem to be the best of all possible ideas.

One doesn't have to sacrifice good nutrition or starve oneself (which as you pointed out doesn't work well in the longer term anyway). As you also correctly pointed out if you take in more than you burn off you will put on weight and the converse is also true. One can place themselves in deficit and they will loose weight (I'm not talking about medical exceptions here) fat people will have a slower metabolism and often a slower transit rate but this increases with exercise and healty eating. The majority of people could loose weight if they took the above steps and made a real effort. It does take work but it is pretty straight forwards.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

That sounds exsessive. If they are undiagnosed how do you know how many there are? What is your source?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[NWFlyer 2]

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One doesn't have to sacrifice good nutrition or starve oneself (which as you pointed out doesn't work well in the longer term anyway). As you also correctly pointed out if you take in more than you burn off you will put on weight and the converse is also true. One can place temselves in deficit and they will loose weight (I'm not talking about medical exceptions here) fat people will have a slower metabolism and often a slower transit rate but this increases with exercise and healty eating. The majority of people could loose weight if they took the above steps and made a real effort. It does take work but it is pretty straight forwards.

One of the other complicating factors (at least in the US) is our public health policy (which is slowly changing) that promotes a "one size fits all" approach to nutrition and weight loss. For me (a former morbidly obese person) it took going against the "conventional wisdom" of what and how to eat to find an approach to eating that worked with my body chemistry.

The good news is that the tide of research is turning, and the medical community is starting to accept that different people need to eat differently to be healthy and you see studies of different types of diet plans.

Now, if only we could get our agricultural policy to align.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[RhondaLea 4]

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That sounds exsessive. If they are undiagnosed how do you know how many there are? What is your source?

I guess I was wrong. 5% is about 14 million.

I had to google for it. I read on this subject all the time, but I don't keep track of what I've read and when.
http://fcs.tamu.edu/health/Health_Education_Rural_Outreach/Health_Hints/2003/june/thyroid_disorders.php

Recent research from the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism suggests that nearly 5% of Americans suffer from undiagnosed thyroid disease, with more than 4% experiencing hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). Because untreated thyroid disease may be associated with osteoporosis, cardiovascular disease, hyperlipidemia [high cholesterol], and neurological disease, these findings have broad implications for the health of Americans (The Endocrine Society, 2002b).

Here's another article that estimates 2 million (but that's not a figure I've ever heard before and there is no source given for the number).

http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/thyroid/disorders.html

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[RhondaLea 4]

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I know people who have made weight loss a major quest, and if they're willing to sacrifice good nutrition and live on 600-800 calories a day, they'll lose weight too. But making oneself sick in the process doesn't seem to be the best of all possible ideas.

One doesn't have to sacrifice good nutrition or starve oneself (which as you pointed out doesn't work well in the longer term anyway). As you also correctly pointed out if you take in more than you burn off you will put on weight and the converse is also true. One can place themselves in deficit and they will loose weight (I'm not talking about medical exceptions here) fat people will have a slower metabolism and often a slower transit rate but this increases with exercise and healty eating. The majority of people could loose weight if they took the above steps and made a real effort. It does take work but it is pretty straight forwards.

You're wrong. It's that simple. You're just wrong.

Pirana got it. You don't get it. And it is this kind of myth that leads to trauma for the overweight every single day of their lives.

I'm glad that you have a good metabolism that works as advertised. But not everyone does. Please do not make blanket generalizations from yourself to cover others who are simply not the same as you.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Skyrad 0]

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You're wrong. It's that simple. You're just wrong.

I guess I'll just have to go back to Med School for a few more years

Nice structured argument BTW.

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I'm glad that you have a good metabolism that works as advertised. But not everyone does. Please do not make blanket generalizations from yourself to cover others who are simply not the same as you.

Maybe you should re-read the post...

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(I'm not talking about medical exceptions here)

I refer the right honorable rl to her earlier answer...

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I think I can stop posting in this thread now.

Maybe you should go and do some thinking now.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RhondaLea 4]

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You're wrong. It's that simple. You're just wrong.

I guess I'll just have to go back to Med School for a few more years

Nice structured argument BTW.

As someone who has been on the receiving end of some really shitty medical care--including a misfuckingdiagnosis of multiple sclerosis and multiple personality disorder for what was nothing more than Hashimoto's thyroiditis--your medical degree doesn't mean a whole lot to me, and if your bedside manner is anything like your posting demeanor, God help your patients.

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I'm glad that you have a good metabolism that works as advertised. But not everyone does. Please do not make blanket generalizations from yourself to cover others who are simply not the same as you.

Maybe you should re-read the post...

Is that your picture in your avatar? My point is that you don't have a weight problem.

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(I'm not talking about medical exceptions here)

Maybe you should go and do some thinking now.

Aren't you the guy who also said that "The majority of people could loose weight if they took the above steps and made a real effort. It does take work but it is pretty straight forwards."

When you consider the vast number of "medical exceptions," the use of the word "majority" contradicts your parenthetical exception.

Since giving unsolicted advice seems to be in vogue here, maybe you should go and do some reading now. I highly recommend How to Win Friends and Influence People. Further, on a doctor's salary, you should be able to afford to buy a spellchecker.

And one more thing. Any old time you decide that you're able to have a discussion sans the snide and superior tone, I'll be happy to go along. Just let me know.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[RhondaLea 4]

P.S. I'm wondering if you acknowlege my source as being valid.

Just curious.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Trent 0]

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your medical degree doesn't mean a whole lot to me, and if your bedside manner is anything like your posting demeanor, God help your patients.

Just sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but...
Just because someone disagrees with you EVEN THOUGH the issue may be close to home for you, doesn't mean they're being an asshole. There seems to be a lot of that BS floating around here lately.

You keep talking about these reasons that people gain excessive weight. No one is disagreeing with their existence (that I've seen). What people are saying is that the simple fact is that more energy burned than consumed will lead to weight loss. It IS harder for some people to lose or keep weight off due to their various metabolisms and other illnesses, but it does not change that simple fact. Some people will have to vary their diet and stick to an exercise regimen because of their conditions if they want to stay in their healthy weight range. We're all dealt different cards and we have to play them differently. No one said it would be easy and I respect those that work hard to look and feel how they want to feel. I can also respect that some others are comfortable with how they are and don't go too far out of their way to look like an athlete.

Why, I wonder, does the US have so much more obesity than other nations? It's hard to imagine that it is just due to more of us having thyroid problems or other illnesses, but maybe...

Oh, hello again!

[NWFlyer 2]

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Why, I wonder, does the US have so much more obesity than other nations? It's hard to imagine that it is just due to more of us having thyroid problems or other illnesses, but maybe...

Other possible contributing factors...

Lifestyle (Part 1) ... We live in a primarily car-oriented culture. We don't walk anywhere (with exceptions in some areas/cities, of course). We are, on the whole, a relatively rich nation that can afford this lifestyle. The fact that gas prices are cheaper here than most of the world helps us continue to do that.

Lifestyle (Part 2) ... We have an abundant supply of cheap, nutritionally-empty and nutritionally-weak processed food. Our culture relies on these foods as major parts of our diet more than any other. This is an even greater problem as we go down the income scale. Other cultures rely much more on whole, unprocessed foods.

Agricultural policy. Our agricultural policy subsidizes corn production quite considerably. Abundant supply of corn = abundant supply of high fructose corn syrup. Look at the first ingredient in a lot of our processed food.

Health policy. Our health policy says "thou shalt eat low-fat to be healthy." However, increasing research and lots of anecdotal evidence shows that doesn't work for everyone. Some people need other approaches, such as lower-carbs, or at the least lower sugar. I didn't solve my own obesity problem till I learned that unique fact about my body chemistry. If I stick to a food plan of whole foods made up primarily of meats, cheeses, green veggies, and low-glycemic fruit, I can stick to a food plan and lose weight at a higher calorie level. If I try low-fat, it requires a lower calorie level to lose weight and it's much more difficult for me to lose weight. I need to completely stay off refined sugar. That's not something that our agricultural or public health policy supports.

[stallboy 0]

The solution to obesity is simple; just change the US building regulations so that all McDonalds have to be at the top of a flight of steps.

[Skyrad 0]

Oooooooh!

As there are over 58 Million Obese people in the US even if we take your figure of 14m being down to a Thyroid problem it is still fair to say the vast majority.

http://www.winltdusa.com/about/infocenter/healthnews/articles/obesestats.htm


Also your genetic argument doesn't hold water. For example.

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"Despite obesity having strong genetic determinants, the genetic composition of the population does not change rapidly. Therefore, the large increase in . . . [obesity] must reflect major changes in non-genetic factors."
Hill, James O., and Trowbridge, Frederick L. Childhood obesity: future directions and research priorities. Pediatrics. 1998; Supplement: 571.

BTW I wouldn't go throwing the baby out with the bath water if I were you I'd get that 'misfuckingdignosis' of multiple personality disorder reviewed as raised TSH, low titre thyroglobulin antibodies and antithyroid peroxidase antibodies are not a indicator of MPD.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RhondaLea 4]

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BTW I wouldn't go throwing the baby out with the bath water if I were you I'd get that 'misfuckingdignosis' of multiple personality disorder reviewed as raised TSH, low titre thyroglobulin antibodies and antithyroid peroxidase antibodies are not a indicator of MPD.

http://www.fudgedesign.co.uk/tuk/thyroid/hyposymptoms.htm

One of the symptoms of long-term untreated hypothyroidism is dementia and there are many people diagnosed with dementia who turn out to have nothing more than hypothyroidism. Please note the other mental symptoms on the list above. If you take hypothyroid dementia, mix it in with a little PTSD and a husband who had been (unbeknownst to me) previously diagnosed by a psychiatrist with narcissistic personality disorder, you're going to end up with a lot of weird crap, especially if the mental health professionals you're dealing with are incompetent--working outside the lines of accepted practice--and have a fixation on such things as MPD and satanic ritual abuse.

I was diagnosed at 14 with mild hypothyroidism. I didn't understand the issues, and the diagnosis got lost in foster care, so I went a long time without treatment.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1768720;search_string=hypothyroidism;#1768720

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1834949;search_string=hypothyroidism;#1834949

I was pretty ill by the time it all got sorted out. But in all that time, not one single doctor ever did a simple blood test--even while I was pregnant. And too, for a period of time, I was alternately hypo and hyper because of the antibodies.

So no, in spite of the cheap shot, dear, I don't have MPD, but I did go through years of hell because there are many, many incompetent medical professionals out there, and I had the ill-luck to run into a long line of them.

As cheap shots go, this one was in the basement. I'm sure you'll be delighted to know how difficult it was for me to type this post, because my hands were shaking uncontrollably.

To coin a phrase: "First do some harm." Congratulations. You're a success.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Skyrad 0]

I appologise.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RhondaLea 4]

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I appologise.

I'm confused by the emoticon, but I use it in unconventional ways, so I'll assume you did too.

I thank you. And for the sarcasm that I returned in full measure (starting you know where) and initiated here, I also apologize.

Now perhaps we can we can start having straightforward dialogue without more than the occasional barb.
rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Skyrad 0]

= Sincerly

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RhondaLea 4]

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= Sincerly

It's all good. As I said, I use it funny too. Confuses people, even if that's not my intent.

"Time starts now" and all that, as long as you're willing to accept mine.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Amanduh 0]

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I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how someone gains weight while burning more "food" than they consume.

It is very possible, Trent. Try researching hypothyroidism. A friend of mine suffered from hyperthyroidism a while back and dropped 40 pounds in 1 month. It took several months for the medication to get in his system and for him to gain back some of his weight. The difference with him though was that his thyroid glands were 'hyper active' and producing a more thyroid hormones than needed. On the flip side, if your thyroid gland slacks off on producing this hormone, the first thing affected is your metabolic rate and will result in fast weight gain and the body feeling drained out at all times. It becomes very hard to find energy in order to make it through the day.

Regardless of what someone diagnosed with hypothyroidism may consume, they are prone to weight gain.