2 Ejected from State of the Union for wearing "message" T-shirts

[Andy9o8 2]

2 people were ejected from the US House gallery during the State of the Union speech for wearing t-shirts with messages on it. Cindy Sheehan's t-shirt protested the Iraq war. The wife of a Republican congressman's t-shirt said support the troops. Both were ejected, although it seems only Sheehan was charged with a crime.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sheehan.arrest/index.html

Should they have been ejected/charged, or were their 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech violated?

[BillyVance 34]

Well, there's a certain decorum that attendees are expected to adhere to, but what the rules are, I'm not sure, but T-shirts probably are not allowed, slogan or not.

So these two women had opposing views stated on their shirts, but both got the heave-ho. I do find it strange that only Sheehan got charged.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Amazon 7]

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I do find it strange that only Sheehan got charged

I dont


remember.. you is for us or you is agin us. Since she is agin them.. she is obviously a terrorist.

[rehmwa 2]

Was Sheehan charged for "wearing a t-shirt"?

Or was the charge for something she did that the other women didn't? Did she strike a guard? Hit a cop?

I'd like more facts first.

If there's a private function with a dress code, then sure, escort them out. That's it. You can't charge someone for wardrobe choices, but you can have the leave the premises.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Was Sheehan charged for "wearing a t-shirt"?

Or was the charge for something she did that the other women didn't? Did she strike a guard? Hit a cop?

I'd like more facts first.

If there's a private function with a dress code, then sure, escort them out. That's it. You can't charge someone for wardrobe choices, but you can have the leave the premises.

Best I've been able to determine is Sheehan was told to cover up the shirt and she refused B?C she said she was exercising her 1st Amendment rights.

Beverly Young was told her T-shirt was inappropriate and she voluntarily left.

[Andy9o8 2]

They were both ejected. Neither left more voluntarily than the other.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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They were both ejected. Neither left more voluntarily than the other.

Then apparently we are reading 2 different versions of what happened.

[unformed 0]

From the article, she was charged with "unlawful conduct," a misdeamenor which carries a maximum penalty of one year in jail.

Spectacular.

This ad space for sale.

[craddock 0]

I don't see rights violated. T-shirts should not be allowed even if they are tie dyed with no message.
I am sure there is a certain dress code at the SOTU adress

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Andy9o8 2]

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They were both ejected. Neither left more voluntarily than the other.

Then apparently we are reading 2 different versions of what happened.

I wonder what version you're reading. In fairness, I looked at the article in the FOXNews website, hardly a pinko perspective. It still bears me out:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183392,00.html

[JohnRich 4]

Cindy can either follow the rules for the address, or get the hell out.

The rules for the chamber are very strict. Even as an observor in the balcony, there can be no rustling of papers, no chewing gum, etc. It's very strict, and enforced by the pages.

She doesn't have a first amendment right to disrupt the President's speech. This is a speech that is as old as the Constitution, and deserves respect and attention. If she wants to protest something, she can do it later on her own time. Go find a tent and cry for the cameras, or stand outside and bang pots and pans together like the other loonies.

If you allow Cindy to disrupt the proceeding, then every other special interest group will do likewise, and you have chaos. There is a time and a place for everything, and the protestors don't deserve to do their activism in that time and place.

Cindy's whacko statement

[GTAVercetti 0]

This seems like the interesting part:

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Beverly Young, wife of Rep. C.W. Bill Young of Florida — chairman of the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee — was removed from the gallery because she was wearing a T-shirt that read, "Support the Troops — Defending Our Freedom."

She was sitting about six rows from first lady Laura Bush and asked to leave. She argued with police in the hallway outside the House chamber.

"They said I was protesting," she told the St. Petersburg Times. "I said, "Read my shirt, it is not a protest.' They said, 'We consider that a protest.' I said, 'Then you are an idiot."'

So Mrs young mouthed off to police too. Why did she not get arrested?

I think it has nothing to do with partisan politics and more to do with she was a Representative's wife.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Cindy can either follow the rules for the address, or get the hell out.

Why do you focus only on Mrs. Sheehan's t-shirt and not even mention Mrs. Young's t-shirt?
I was simply pointing out, without really even editorializing it, that, according to the articles, Sheehan was charged with a crime while the Republican congressman's wife was not, for virtually identical conduct (except, of course, the respective points of view on their t-shirts).

[Gravitymaster 0]

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They were both ejected. Neither left more voluntarily than the other.

Then apparently we are reading 2 different versions of what happened.

I wonder what version you're reading. In fairness, I looked at the article in the FOXNews website, hardly a pinko perspective. It still bears me out:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183392,00.html

How is a AP story on Fox indicative of a perspective?

[GTAVercetti 0]

So, instead of arguing about the discrepency, just SHOW the version you are reading.

That would really simplify it.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Andy9o8 2]

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How is an AP story on Fox indicative of a perspective?

In your zeal to be partisan, you miss the point.
Whatever. I forgot you're a last-word freak.

[Andy9o8 2]

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So, instead of arguing about the discrepency, just SHOW the version you are reading.

That would really simplify it.

What he said.

[craddock 0]

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I was simply pointing out, without really even editorializing it, that, according to the articles, Sheehan was charged with a crime while the Republican congressman's wife was not, for virtually identical conduct (except, of course, the respective points of view on their t-shirts).

Oh cry cry. I have been pulled over for speeding before and let off with a warning. I know people who have been pulled over for lesser offenses and ticketed. So what? Both of them should have known better but one of them kind of got away with it.
Was the person who arrested Mrs. Sheehan the same as the person who escorted out the congressman's wife?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I was simply pointing out, without really even editorializing it, that, according to the articles, Sheehan was charged with a crime while the Republican congressman's wife was not, for virtually identical conduct (except, of course, the respective points of view on their t-shirts).

Oh cry cry. I have been pulled over for speeding before and let off with a warning. I know people who have been pulled over for lesser offenses and ticketed. So what? Both of them should have known better but one of them kind of got away with it.
Was the person who arrested Mrs. Sheehan the same as the person who escorted out the congressman's wife?

It just seems a bit like Orwell's Animal Farm, where all the animals in the barnyard are equal. Except, of course, for the pigs, who are a little more equal.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So, instead of arguing about the discrepency, just SHOW the version you are reading.

That would really simplify it.

Problem is this is bouncing back and forth between 2 threads. On the other thread I tried to point out that Sheehan had been warned earlier in the day not to wear the shirt, but apparently that fact isn't germain and I'm a partisan hack for bringing it up.

Cops come to your house at 10pm and nicely tell you to turn down the music. Cops come to yours and my house at 1am, more likely you are going to be treated differently than me. Apparently that equates to "Animal Farm".

[Andy9o8 2]

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Then apparently we are reading 2 different versions of what happened.

Still waiting...

[Andy9o8 2]

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germain

The canopy guy?

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I'm a partisan hack

Finally, some candor.

[masterrig 1]

Cindy Sheehan is getting just what she wants... publicity. If, the press would just stay away from her and quit reporting every time she blinks maybe, she'd just... go away. That's not going to happen. I think too, she's running the First Amendment into the dirt.


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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Cindy Sheehan is getting just what she wants... publicity. If, the press would just stay away from her and quit reporting every time she blinks maybe, she'd just... go away. That's not going to happen.

That part I agree with you on....

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I think too, she's running the First Amendment into the dirt.

...but on that, I disagree. And not just re: Sheehan, but with regard to freedom of speech generally. Freedom of speech is meaningless if it only applies to popular ideas expressed in a comfortable way. Where freedom of speech really has value is where it protects speech which is very unpopular, either in its content or its means of expression.

[rehmwa 2]

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They were both ejected. Neither left more voluntarily than the other.

The article I read:

1 - Beverly did leave and then argued 'outside' the chamber. Likely then complied after she had her say (called people idiots) and left.

2 - Cindi complained about being tossed about and brutalized for no reason. I suspect this is code speak that she fought and fought and fought and likely struck the attendants or tried to.

Granted, I'm reading into it, but it sounds like the 'voluntary' aspect was not equivalent at all. Beverly verbally griped outside chamber, Cindi struggled and complained inside chamber and likely got physical.

Again, I'd rather know for sure than guess like I'm doing.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants