peacefuljeffrey 0 #76 February 4, 2006 QuoteAs long as the suspect knew what they were doing, and knew what they were doing was wrong, insanity is not an appropriate defense, and that's why the insanity defense is used in less than 1% of murder trials, and successful in less than a quarter of cases when used. Do those figures include all the times (it seems quite often, heuristically) when people are not even tried, because they are deemed "not fit to stand trial" in the first place? That would seem to fall outside of ever even mounting an attempted insanity defense... And as I said, heuristically at least, it seems to be quite common. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #77 February 4, 2006 QuoteIf she was crazy did she get crazy in one sec. or was she crazy her whol life she just hid it? So she acts normal enough not to raise any alarms but all of a sudden BOOM she goes nuts and kills her kids? I know about mental illness but I didn’t know it happened so quickly That's why I have a hard time believing the claim. Her kids, some of them, were years old. She had apparently been able to do the shopping, bathing, clothing kids thing... and then like you said, BOOM, she's crazy and drowns FIVE of them in one afternoon?! It's easy to say yeah, "CRAZY," because who ELSE would do it but a crazy person? But that does not, I feel, exculpate someone from their responsibility for the crime and the need to be punished for it. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #78 February 4, 2006 QuoteQuote If she's found insane We have too many labels to enable people to get out of accepting responsibility.. She knew that the cops needed to be at her home. I heard the 911 call.. That means she knew god damned well and good what she was doing and that it was wrong. That is SUCH an excellent point that I dare say it is about the ONLY point that really needs to be made in this whole subject. It is PROOF that she knew she should not do what she did, and therefore should stand to be aptly punished for it. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #79 February 4, 2006 QuoteYou're so crazy that you think you're doing the right thing. Maybe saving them from greater pain; maybe making sure that they're not exposed to any more sin so that they can go to Heaven instead of Hell. Maybe they are mutant aliens who are there to steal your brain. Remember that even in the Bible, Abraham was going to kill Isaac because God told him to, but God spared Isaac in the end. And no one calls him a nutter. I do. I think they were all either full of shit or crazy. I have to: I don't believe that there IS a god who was talking to them. So what other explanation is there? Now as far as Darius' question... (The word you were looking for is "premeditated.") The fact that some would claim that anyone who murders must have been "not in his right mind" would have to mean one of two things: - we never charge anyone for murder, because having murdered is proof that a person was insane and therefore not responsible for her actions - we dismiss the idea that "being out of your right mind" should get a murderer off scot-free, and we charge them all --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #80 February 4, 2006 Its weird that with the wealth of information out there on subjects like psychosis how people refuse to acknowlege it for what it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis I guess it makes for a much simpler, safer, black and white world to just to pretend that all mad people are fakers making mad shit up to excuse their evilness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #81 February 4, 2006 QuoteIts weird that with the wealth of information out there on subjects like psychosis how people refuse to acknowlege it for what it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis I guess it makes for a much simpler, safer, black and white world to just to pretend that all mad people are fakers making mad shit up to excuse their evilness. Sometimes it's a matter of imitation. Just like when the first guy in prison ever appealed to a parole board because he "got religion." It quickly became apparent that you could fool lots of people by putting on a convincing show of being reformed. Now, unfortunately for those who are truly ill, FAKERS have made cynics out of many of us, and now we find it hard to believe such claims from ANYONE. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #82 February 4, 2006 Andrea Yates has a very long history of mental illness... You think she's been faking since she was a teenager? That's an awful long time for a charade. According to time.com, she had thousands of pages of medical records. Thousands. That's a heck of a lot of documentation for faking and imitating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #83 February 4, 2006 QuoteIts weird that with the wealth of information out there on subjects like psychosis how people refuse to acknowlege it for what it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis I guess it makes for a much simpler, safer, black and white world to just to pretend that all mad people are fakers making mad shit up to excuse their evilness. People often confuse psychotic with psychopathic, but the two couldn't be more different. I recently read a very succinct characterization of the psychopath: Neither logic nor ordinary emotions served as a foundation for his actions. Power--and the pleasure he got from exercising it--and survival were his only motivations. (Dean Koontz understands personality disorders better than anyone I've ever come across.) The psychotic, on the other hand...well, how many of you have seen A Beautiful Mind? Did you actually understand that what John Nash was seeing during his psychotic episodes was totally real to him? As real as anything you see from day-to-day? If Andrea Yates were personality disordered, I'd be demanding cruel and unusual punishment for what she did, but as it is, the only feeling I can muster is overwhelming pity--for her and for her children. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #84 February 4, 2006 QuotePeople often confuse psychotic with psychopathic, but the two couldn't be more different. True story: A bunch of people on the south coast of England recently smashed up a house they though belonged to a peodophile. Except the house belonged to a pediatrician. Close, but no cigar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #85 February 4, 2006 Quote Andrea Yates has a very long history of mental illness... You think she's been faking since she was a teenager? Some people start faking very early for attention. Who's to say she didn't?? Hell let's blame it on her parents for the lack of love and attention she had??? Fuck that... I believe in mental illness.. I also believe in EVIL. I also believe in responsibility. Ultimately we are all responsible for our actions. Like it or not she is responsible, not those that medicated her. She had a brain, she took care of kids, she was disciplined enough to take her pills regurlarly and she murdered 5 children that she gave birth to while they were fighting for their lives.. Like the word or not.. She is an EVIL CUNT and deserves death. She should be drowned herself.. 5 times.. before the last attempt is successful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #86 February 4, 2006 I'll admit it. I'm defective. I can't argue this much factual inaccuracy. It just boggles my brain. The only bit of luck is that you have no decision-making power in this matter. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #87 February 5, 2006 QuoteSome people start faking very early for attention. Who's to say she didn't?? Hell let's blame it on her parents for the lack of love and attention she had??? Yeah....yeah....that's the ticket....blame it on her mommie and daddy! -Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #88 February 5, 2006 QuoteShe's had mental problems most of her life, but this particular episode was triggered by having a baby, and got worse over the weeks since the delivery. PPP is not something like have the baby and you're instantly crazy. It appears over days to weeks, and the person goes from normal to behaving oddly to full-blown psychosis. Sometimes it's gradual, sometimes not so gradual. Depends on the person and whether or not they had mental illness in the past that could be triggered or increased by the hormone fluxuations of having a baby. What you said and it is a known fact they had a sick and twisted Jim Jones kind of religious thing going.........the whole family is odd to say the least. For me what is most interesting in this case is why her attorneys have taken such an interest in her. Who is paying her legal fee's and why? "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #89 February 5, 2006 dammit all, being banned stinks. I've missed out on some good fallacies, outright hatred, and the occasional good post! nuts. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #90 February 5, 2006 Quotedammit all, being banned stinks. I've missed out on some good fallacies, outright hatred, and the occasional good post! nuts. Nice to see you back, dear. :)If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #91 February 6, 2006 QuoteI've missed out on some good fallacies, outright hatred, and the occasional good post! nuts. ...And that was just the stuff you read of MINE! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #92 February 24, 2006 http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/24/yates.trial.ap/index.htmlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
