Andy9o8 2 #426 February 20, 2006 QuoteSo, which one of you are going to carry your child to term and deliver the baby? Last I heard, it takes a female to do that. I would imagine that if it’s a female couple, there would be a sperm donor, and if it’s a male couple, there would be a surrogate mother. Many heterosexual couples already do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #427 February 20, 2006 QuoteSo, which one of you are going to carry your child to term and deliver the baby? Last I heard, it takes a female to do that. Your grasp of reproductive biology makes my head spin! It's nearly as impressive as your punctuation. Excuse me while I go back to my grade school health class textbook to try to figure out how making babies works. I'll get back to you as soon as I'm as snart about these things as you are. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #428 February 20, 2006 QuoteSo, which one of you are going to carry your child to term and deliver the baby? Last I heard, it takes a female to do that. What makes you think there aren't women who would carry a baby on behalf of a friend? Paid surrogates notwithstanding, there have been more than a few babies born whose womb mother is not their genetic mother. Or is that only okay when it's done by heterosexual couples? rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #429 February 20, 2006 QuoteExcuse me while I go back to my grade school health class textbook to try to figure out how making babies works. I'll get back to you as soon as I'm as snart about these things as you are. Hey now.. Arnold Swartzenegger and Danny Devito managed it...maybe that needs to be researched more diligently.. then all the guys who want to force a woman to take "HIS" child to term could just do it themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #430 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteA racial-issue marriage and a sexual preference/orientation-issue marriage are not comparable. I'd take that stand if I was committed to preventing the outcome of one issue from prevailing in the other. But nonetheless, they are comparable. But you don't think the current status of polygamy being illegal is comparable, apples and oranges, right? Billvon sees a valid comparison between mixed race marriages and same sex marriage, why no valid comparison here? Maybe same sex marriage advocates are OK with the denial of polygamist marriage rights because a lot of polygamists are very religious. It is OK with liberals to deny human rights to people of faith. I don't see how you can favor the legalization of same sex marriage without allowing polygamy. The same justifications apply. I don't think polygamy should be legal, but I don't think same sex marriage advocates are willing to take the position in favor of polygamy because they know it will not help their cause. They want marriage redefined just for their purpose, but not to include other marital arrangements which certainly have more of a basis in history.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,033 #431 February 20, 2006 >I don't see how you can favor the legalization of same sex marriage >without allowing polygamy. Personally I don't care. If people were clamoring for polygamous marriages, then I might. In which case I'd have the same position I have now. You should have a LEGAL right to a civil union between any two people; you should have a RELIGIOUS right to marry whoever you want, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #432 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, which one of you are going to carry your child to term and deliver the baby? Last I heard, it takes a female to do that. Your grasp of reproductive biology makes my head spin! It's nearly as impressive as your punctuation. Excuse me while I go back to my grade school health class textbook to try to figure out how making babies works. I'll get back to you as soon as I'm as snart about these things as you are. Narc, how about you drop your "superior intellect" horseshit. You know you think you are more intelligent than I am (I doubt it). We're all well aware of how babies are made. You and your male partner are not going to "make' a baby. You (or him) and a female are going to make a baby (if tha't what you decide). Get real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #433 February 20, 2006 Quote>I don't see how you can favor the legalization of same sex marriage >without allowing polygamy. Personally I don't care. If people were clamoring for polygamous marriages, then I might. In which case I'd have the same position I have now. You should have a LEGAL right to a civil union between any two people; you should have a RELIGIOUS right to marry whoever you want, period. It certainly is an issue in Utah. However, the general public is not in favor of this, and the general public is not considered a polyphobe or bigot for this position. I think it is therefore not phobic or bigoted to deny same sex marriages. Are you sure you would be in favor of allowing unions/marriages between any two people?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #434 February 20, 2006 QuoteYou and your male partner are not going to "make' a baby. You (or him) and a female are going to make a baby (if tha't what you decide). Get real Oh! Wow. A female is part of the process? Gosh. Thanks for the educamation. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #435 February 20, 2006 QuoteBut you don't think the current status of polygamy being illegal is comparable, apples and oranges, right? I haven't expressed an opinion. In fact, I don't have one. I don't care about those things. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #436 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou and your male partner are not going to "make' a baby. You (or him) and a female are going to make a baby (if tha't what you decide). Get real Oh! Wow. A female is part of the process? Gosh. Thanks for the educamation. You're the one that said you and your partner might make a baby Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #437 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, which one of you are going to carry your child to term and deliver the baby? Last I heard, it takes a female to do that. What makes you think there aren't women who would carry a baby on behalf of a friend? Paid surrogates notwithstanding, there have been more than a few babies born whose womb mother is not their genetic mother. Or is that only okay when it's done by heterosexual couples? rlYes, in my view it is only okay by hetrosexuals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #438 February 20, 2006 QuoteYes, in my view it is only okay by hetrosexuals. Well, at least now we know that you are closed-minded and we can more or less disregard the rest of your opinions on this matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #439 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut you don't think the current status of polygamy being illegal is comparable, apples and oranges, right? I haven't expressed an opinion. In fact, I don't have one. I don't care about those things. Of course you don't have to care. I am only expressing to you that the general public does see a valid comparison. You don't care about polygamy being legalized, they don't want to legalize same sex marriage either.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #440 February 20, 2006 Quote I am only expressing to you that the general public does see a valid comparison. You don't care about polygamy being legalized, they don't want to legalize same sex marriage either. How do you know that the general public sees a valid comparison? I understand that you see it this way, but generalizing from you to the general public is a big stretch. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #441 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuote I am only expressing to you that the general public does see a valid comparison. You don't care about polygamy being legalized, they don't want to legalize same sex marriage either. How do you know that the general public sees a valid comparison? I understand that you see it this way, but generalizing from you to the general public is a big stretch. rl oh fuck. this is painful.....-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #442 February 20, 2006 QuoteHow do you know that the general public sees a valid comparison? I understand that you see it this way, but generalizing from you to the general public is a big stretch. True, I have generalized this from many people that I have asked. In other posts I have used said that "I contend that the general public..." I contend that it is a true statement. Anyway, it is a true statement that the voting public does not approve of same sex marriage, and I contend that support for polygamy is far lower.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #443 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow do you know that the general public sees a valid comparison? I understand that you see it this way, but generalizing from you to the general public is a big stretch. True, I have generalized this from many people that I have asked. In other posts I have used said that "I contend that the general public..." I contend that it is a true statement. Anyway, it is a true statement that the voting public does not approve of same sex marriage, and I contend that support for polygamy is far lower. Even if I allow all that for the sake of argument, it still doesn't mean that the general public sees it as a valid comparison. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,033 #444 February 20, 2006 >However, the general public is not in favor of this, and the general > public is not considered a polyphobe or bigot for this position. I > think it is therefore not phobic or bigoted to deny same sex > marriages. Correct. Someone who is opposed to same-sex marriage is not _neccesarily_ a bigot; they may believe (erroneously) that it is impossible or that children will be scarred by the experience of having gay parents. That does not make them bigots, just misinformed. About the most you can say for sure is that they oppose certain human rights. >Are you sure you would be in favor of allowing unions/marriages >between any two people? Yes. You should be able to have a CIVIL UNION between any two sane consenting adults. ("Sane consenting adults" added to prevent a semantics war.) You should be able to MARRY anyone you want, and that marriage should mean whatever you and your religion agrees it means. Keep in mind that the state does not marry people, and assuming it does gives way too much credit to the state for something people should have responsibility for. People marry people. All the state can do is try to probibit certain kinds of marriage. I think its efforts are better spent in other areas, like preventing wars, educating kids and preventing deaths from pollution, crime and epidemics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #445 February 20, 2006 QuoteYou don't care about polygamy being legalized, they don't want to legalize same sex marriage either. You completely misunderstand the meaning of "don't care" if you think it is the same as "don't want." But then, it's to your benefit to misunderstand or at least to appear to misunderstand. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #446 February 20, 2006 Quotepolygamy ... polygamy ... polygamy ... polygamy My gosh but you're obsessed with polygamy. Do you have some personal issues you'd like to talk about? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #447 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou don't care about polygamy being legalized, they don't want to legalize same sex marriage either. You completely misunderstand the meaning of "don't care" if you think it is the same as "don't want." But then, it's to your benefit to misunderstand or at least to appear to misunderstand. OK, I'll rephrase it. You don't care about polygamy being not being allowed, the voting public doesn't care about same sex marriage not being allowed either.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #448 February 20, 2006 QuoteOK, I'll rephrase it. You don't care about polygamy being not being allowed, the voting public doesn't care about same sex marriage not being allowed either. It's nice of you to rephrase your mistake, but in doing so you've made a different mistake. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #449 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuotepolygamy ... polygamy ... polygamy ... polygamy My gosh but you're obsessed with polygamy. Do you have some personal issues you'd like to talk about? No personal issues with polygamy. Apparently it is irritating to you that I bring up issues that will not support your cause. I think it is a useful comparison. The voting public is surely not going to legalize polygamy, so I contend you should not expect same sex marriage to be legalized until you can get the voting public to also grant polygamists the human rights they desire. Why should it be OK to deny them. I contend that is the way the voting public sees it.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #450 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteOK, I'll rephrase it. You don't care about polygamy being not being allowed, the voting public doesn't care about same sex marriage not being allowed either. It's nice of you to rephrase your mistake, but in doing so you've made a different mistake. It doesn't matter if people make logical errors, or fallacies or whatever. Voters don't have to pass logic tests to cast their ballots.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
