"Nigger/Nigga"

[Newbie 0]

What do you guys think of this...

http://www.wimp.com/racistteacher/

What do people expect when this word is bandied around just - as the reporter says - like the word "dude" is, and when you have Chris Rock making skits like these:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/niggaplease.html

I personally think the guy shouldn't have used it - but he did, and all he is guilty of is trying to be "down" with his students. From the impression i got, the guy didn't seem to be a rascist, just an old guy trying to gain the respect of his students (or maintain the respect) by trying to be "down" by using their everyday slang - and it backfired. If anyone is guilty of the offence this has caused, it's all the so called "hip hop heads" who have allowed this word to be twisted around from it's original meaning. You can't on the one hand argue it's a form of saying "whats up" or "whats going on" and all innocent and what have you, and then on the other get pissed when a non black person uses it as a young black kid uses it and accuse him of rascist behaviour! That's moronic and goes against the belief that the word is harmless, as it's obviously not.

Here is a good summary of my thoughts from Davey D, someone who has been down with hip hop for almost 3 decades...

http://www.daveyd.com/nigaornigpol.html

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[likearock 2]

http://kontraband.com/show/show.asp?ID=2823&NEXTID=0&PREVID=1673&DISPLAYORDER=20051123180707&CAT=movies&NSFW=1&page=2&genre=0&rating=nsfw_sfw]

[unformed 0]

damn crackas need to learn to keep their mouth shut ...

This ad space for sale.

[RhondaLea 4]

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I personally think the guy shouldn't have used it - but he did, and all he is guilty of is trying to be "down" with his students. From the impression i got, the guy didn't seem to be a rascist, just an old guy trying to gain the respect of his students (or maintain the respect) by trying to be "down" by using their everyday slang - and it backfired. If anyone is guilty of the offence this has caused, it's all the so called "hip hop heads" who have allowed this word to be twisted around from it's original meaning.

Nope.

The guy is a putz.

First of all, his job is to set an example, not to be "down" with his students. Students, generally, use a lot of unacceptable language, and the job of the teacher is to discourage this--what if Mr. Dawson had said, "Get the fuck in here now," instead?

As for the word being "twisted" from it's original meaning, I don't even know what to say. I've tried a couple of responses, but had to delete them. "Twisting it from it's original meaning" is a good thing, not bad, but that doesn't make it okay for authority figures to use it to those in their charge.

At the very least, it was disrespectful and inappropriate, but I had the feeling from watching Dawson that it was a little more than that.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Duckwater 0]

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/chappelles_show/videos/season_2/index.jhtml?playVideo=11906

This is damn funny

--

[Newbie 0]

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I personally think the guy shouldn't have used it - but he did, and all he is guilty of is trying to be "down" with his students. From the impression i got, the guy didn't seem to be a rascist, just an old guy trying to gain the respect of his students (or maintain the respect) by trying to be "down" by using their everyday slang - and it backfired. If anyone is guilty of the offence this has caused, it's all the so called "hip hop heads" who have allowed this word to be twisted around from it's original meaning.

Nope.

The guy is a putz.

First of all, his job is to set an example, not to be "down" with his students. Students, generally, use a lot of unacceptable language, and the job of the teacher is to discourage this--what if Mr. Dawson had said, "Get the fuck in here now," instead?

As for the word being "twisted" from it's original meaning, I don't even know what to say. I've tried a couple of responses, but had to delete them. "Twisting it from it's original meaning" is a good thing, not bad, but that doesn't make it okay for authority figures to use it to those in their charge.

At the very least, it was disrespectful and inappropriate, but I had the feeling from watching Dawson that it was a little more than that.

rl

What do you mean, you don't know what to say with regard to it being "supposedly" twisted around from it's original meaning?

The whole point of that argument - and this case in point proves it so - is that it hasn't been twisted from the original meaning at all, and it's still carries with it the association of derogatory, rascist term the word originally had.

As far as i'm concerned, you can't have a single word mean different things and have different connotations to people of different races, that's just silly.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[ntacfreefly 0]

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At the very least, it was disrespectful and inappropriate, but I had the feeling from watching Dawson that it was a little more than that.

Nonsense. If I get called a derogatory name (based on whatever physical attribute) for decades with a negative connotation, only to turn around and start using it on people that share that attribute later on, I've either changed the meaning of the word or I'm full of shit.

In this context, if a black person can call another 'nigga' but a white person can't without being branded racist for no other reason than they are white and used the term then it's just as racist as the damn word was to begin with.

It's pretty damn simple IMO, either the word is acceptable or it's not. We (society) cannot have it both ways.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[RhondaLea 4]

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What do you mean, you don't know what to say with regard to it being "supposedly" twisted around from it's original meaning?

The whole point of that argument - and this case in point proves it so - is that it hasn't been twisted from the original meaning at all, and it's still carries with it the association of derogatory, rascist term the word originally had.

As far as i'm concerned, you can't have a single word mean different things and have different connotations to people of different races, that's just silly.

The colloquial meaning of a word depends on the context in which the word is used.

We had a problem the other day at work because some time back, a client told me she felt "incompetent." That word has only one meaning to a legal practictioner--someone who is incapable of handling his or her affairs--but to her, the word meant "inept." That was clear from the context in which it was used by her.

To two young black men walking down the street, the word "nigger" or "nigga" means "dude" or something like it.

If my father walks out the door and says "hey nigger" to one of them, it means something entirely different.

There's nothing silly about it; it's the way we use the language every day. All of us. It is one of the biggest reasons for conflicts between men and women, parents and children, different races and ethnicities, and even those who come from different parts of the country.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Steel 0]

http://www.wimp.com/moment/
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[wmw999 2,485]

No way context and situation makes a difference, only when I want it to.

funnel / bounce / skygod / bumpers

Forgot to mention: look at any thread with comments from BillyVance to skinnyshrek or vice versa, and any thread involving Remster. Then imagine that talk going on in a thread in SC.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RhondaLea 4]

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No way context and situation makes a difference, only when I want it to.

funnel / bounce / skygod / bumpers

You always know just the right think to say, Wendy.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[rehmwa 2]

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The colloquial meaning of a word depends on the context in which the word is used.

So are you saying that those that want to treat everybody equally are insincere in their efforts and beliefs?

Or just that you have a different perspective and just don't respect their position?

Maybe that person who says a word is bad despite who says it, really is working towards treating everybody equally and expects the same. I think this attitude is a lot more respectful and much more productive to the final goal of true color blindness.

Does context matter? yes
Should context matter? (in this example) no

How can we say who's more 'socially evolved' (god I hate that term)? The person that lives by the 'does' question or the person that lives by the "should" question.

I think the 'should' person, if they are truly sincere, is so much farther down the path. FWIW

And if you are a 'should' person, yet still sensitive to the historical problem, then it's not surprising that the sincere 'should' person gets frustrated and cynical by the lack of parity in people's attitudes or even the obstructions put up by those that mean well but still do exactly the most counterproductive actions to the end goal.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RhondaLea 4]

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The colloquial meaning of a word depends on the context in which the word is used.

So are you saying that those that want to treat everybody equally are insincere in their efforts and beliefs?

Equal rights under the law is not the same as equitable treatment in the real world.

It is very rare for anyone to be treated "equally." I don't know how you do that, because we are not created equal. As a practical matter, this is merely a fact.

Therefore, I think it is misguided, at best, to attempt equality as a practical matter (vs. legally).

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Or just that you have a different perspective and just don't respect their position?

I don't think that the teacher's position was very respectful. And I don't see that his treatment of his student had anything to do with equality.

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Maybe that person who says a word is bad despite who says it, really is working towards treating everybody equally and expects the same. I think this attitude is a lot more respectful and much more productive to the final goal of true color blindness.

So you think that the next time your co-worker accomplishes something out of the ordinary, the thing for you to do is chant him a chorus of "HIM! HIM! FUCK HIM!"?

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Does context matter? yes
Should context matter? (in this example) no

I don't think that's for you to judge.

But in this example, it's still not appropriate for a teacher to speak to his student that way.

The rest of what you wrote...well, it might be another discussion, but for me, this discussion does not extend quite that far.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[ntacfreefly 0]

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So you think that the next time your co-worker accomplishes something out of the ordinary, the thing for you to do is chant him a chorus of "HIM! HIM! FUCK HIM!"?

Oh please. That's really a stretch as almost everyone in the WORLD would have no idea what the hell we were talking about.

As for the original statement, I don't get bent out of shape everytime I hear some stand up comedian say 'Kill whitey'. I mean, really, if we want to put these things behind us we all need to move on at some point. If that means changing the words intended meaning (see just about any rap song) then so be it - but don't bitch when others start to use it too.

For the record, I really wish people just wouldn't say it altogether, and even if it became publicly acceptable to spout it out at a moment notice I still, personally, don't feel comfortable saying it. That said I still stand by my original thought process in that if you don't want someone to call you something, don't allow your culture to embrace the word. If we all ran around calling each other 'milky' and a black person decided to call us as such then we'd be pretty hypocritic in taking offense.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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As for the word being "twisted" from it's original meaning, I don't even know what to say. I've tried a couple of responses, but had to delete them. "Twisting it from it's original meaning" is a good thing, not bad, but that doesn't make it okay for authority figures to use it to those in their charge.

What? Twisting it from its original meaning is not a "good" thing -- like the way some think it's good to put those evil confiscated guns into a smelter to make a sculpture. Some things need not be "turned around" into something good -- they should just be left by the wayside. The word "nigger/nigga" should be one of those words.

Black people are not "empowered" by seizing control of that word and making it "positive" ( ?!) -- they are empowered by staying in school, staying off drugs, getting an education, all the things that make anyone empowered.

The word "nigger/nigga" has power over them only if they keep it around. It's already well out of favor for white people to just bandy it about. If blacks stopped doing that too, it would be relegated to history and we could all maybe move on with our lives.


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[RhondaLea 4]

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As for the original statement, I don't get bent out of shape everytime I hear some stand up comedian say 'Kill whitey'.

I don't get offended when a stand-up comedian says anything. It is the job of comedians to poke at such things. Consider Lenny Bruce and his famous "nigger, honkey, kike, spic" bit.

If a black friend calls me "whitey," it's no big deal. I don't use the "N" word myself, but my blonde, blue-eyed daughter has uses for it, and among her black friends, the word coming from her mouth, used in context, is perfectly acceptable.

But I don't expect she would say it to a stranger on the street, and if a stranger on the street called me "whitey," I would be offended.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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To two young black men walking down the street, the word "nigger" or "nigga" means "dude" or something like it.

If two young women walking down the street decided to start calling each other "cunt," would that be okay? It means "girlfriennnnd" to them.


Besides, have you never heard a black person use the term "nigga" derogatorily to another black person? I have. In such a case, the word should be as offensive to the person it is directed toward as if I used it, because your little loophole of "it's a friendly term of affection and comraderie" is clearly not in use.

How about, "You just a dumb nigga if you's thinkin' I'ma lend you fitty dollars!"

I've heard black people talk to each other that way in my presense -- loudly, in public. And we're supposed to think, what? That it's a legitimate way to interact in a chummy way with one's friends and cohorts?

So if I work with a black person (I do, several) or am hanging out socially with a black person (I do, several) and I have something chummy to say, as long as I'm saying it in a friendly way, I can do that, being white?

I don't think so.

And therein lies the racist double-standard.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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If a black friend calls me "whitey," it's no big deal. I don't use the "N" word myself, but my blonde, blue-eyed daughter has uses for it, and among her black friends, the word coming from her mouth, used in context, is perfectly acceptable.

That's fucking disgusting.


-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[RhondaLea 4]

I'm glad that whitey still gets to decide what the man of color can and should think and do.

This discussion parallels the "queer" and "dyke" arguments, among others.

And in the same way, under certain circumstances, those words are acceptable.

It's not for the group that has traditionally used a word as a pejorative to decide what the acceptable use of that word should be.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[RhondaLea 4]

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If a black friend calls me "whitey," it's no big deal. I don't use the "N" word myself, but my blonde, blue-eyed daughter has uses for it, and among her black friends, the word coming from her mouth, used in context, is perfectly acceptable.

That's fucking disgusting.

It's part of the culture and community in which she lives.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[wmw999 2,485]

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It's not for the group that has traditionally used a word as a pejorative to decide what the acceptable use of that word should be.

Bravo. Beautifully put.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Darius11 12]

It’s simple if your not African American don’t use the word.

Like your daughter I use that word all the time with my African American friends note not all African Americans but the ones who know me and know me very well. I consider them family.

No need to understand the why or why not just respect it, and if you have any thought that maybe you should not say it then don’t

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I'm glad that whitey still gets to decide what the man of color can and should think and do.

Can the melodrama and hyperbole and your arguments will go further.

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It's not for the group that has traditionally used a word as a pejorative to decide what the acceptable use of that word should be.

Nope. As someone said, we ALL should abandon offensive words as a favor to MANKIND. Is it that black people cannot think of or find a nice term of familiarity and comraderie to use apart from "taking back" "nigger" from the honkies? What is the NEED for them to keep using "nigga"?!

If you could show us how/why they NEED it, we might think of ending our insistence that everyone should just abandon the word.

The simple fact is, there is no need for black people to have and use "nigga." If it's to throw it back in the face of a bunch of white people far too young to have ever owned slaves (and most far too young to have ever forced a black person out of a restaurant or into a different, inferior bathroom), then I say, Grow Up. I say, if you need to do that, you are not yet mature enough for me to bother trying to deal with.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[RhondaLea 4]

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The simple fact is, there is no need for black people to have and use "nigga."

The simple fact is, white boy, you don't get to decide.

They do.

And they have.

rl

(Edited to add: I just couldn't resist. I had an old friend in my head at the moment I wrote that, and I just had to channel her. Sorry.)

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[wmw999 2,485]

I'm afraid that colloquial language usage is not prescriptive, and if it were, we probably wouldn't be in charge.

Language evolves as it evolves. If you use it as you wish (sometimes called "humpty usage") without regards to how it will be received, then you will give offense sometimes, be misunderstood sometimes, and not convey the strength of your sentiments sometimes. Even more than is the case when you take the recipient into account in your delivery.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)