ntacfreefly 0 #26 February 13, 2006 QuoteThe simple fact is, white boy, you don't get to decide. They do. And they have. If we want to be treated equally, then no 'they' don't - we (society) do. Of course, unless we want to keep seperation, in which case we're all doing a fine job of ensuring that.To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #27 February 13, 2006 QuoteNo need to understand the why or why not just respect it, and if you have any thought that maybe you should not say it then don’t I have to respect it, just because you say I do? Where is my option, where is my freedom to believe that it's stupid even for YOU to use the word? That it's stupid to keep it around, just on account of how divisive it is, and how negative its background is? Would you PLEASE explain to me what it is that makes black people want to keep it around? What NEED they feel they have to keep using it, instead of a simple fuckin' word like "PAL"? "BUDDY"? "FRIEND"? "DUDE"? "BRO"? Fuckin' ANYTHING but that one -- and that one is the one they won't let go of? How about Nazi flags? What if Jews decided to keep Nazi flags hanging in their homes, because now they have triumphed over the Nazis and now they "own" that symbol? And then if I decided that since I also hate Nazis I put up a small such flag in my home, and now they'll be offended? If it's a historically offensive thing, that's what it is. This "context" and "who's using it" bullshit is just totally irrational. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #28 February 13, 2006 QuoteLanguage evolves as it evolves. If you use it as you wish (sometimes called "humpty usage") without regards to how it will be received, then you will give offense sometimes, be misunderstood sometimes, and not convey the strength of your sentiments sometimes. Even more than is the case when you take the recipient into account in your delivery. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with anyone taking offense at the usage of a word. Plenty of things offend me, the difference is HOW I let it effect me. I can either a) Ignore it or b) Whine about it. But if I chose B I better not be a hypocrite. This kid, calling for the guys job, is pathetic. The guy was disciplined (IMO a slap on the wrist would have been sufficient - Hey dude, don't say that). Instead he got suspended and the little 'victim' still wasn't happy.To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #29 February 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf a black friend calls me "whitey," it's no big deal. I don't use the "N" word myself, but my blonde, blue-eyed daughter has uses for it, and among her black friends, the word coming from her mouth, used in context, is perfectly acceptable. That's fucking disgusting. It's part of the culture and community in which she lives. rl That's your excuse? What's your excuse for her not trying to hold herself above the degeneracy of use of that word in her "culture and community"? Rosa Parks lived in a community in which it was standard for blacks to ride at the back of the bus. I suppose that, like your daughter, she bore no actual responsibility for making a change in a positive direction, so she really should have just schlepped her ass to the back like a good little darkie. Everyone can start to be part of a solution if they abandon negative old ways. Your daughter could start, but instead she has you defending her for keeping the status quo. That's really sad. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #30 February 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe simple fact is, there is no need for black people to have and use "nigga." The simple fact is, white boy, you don't get to decide. They do. And they have. rl (Edited to add: I just couldn't resist. I had an old friend in my head at the moment I wrote that, and I just had to channel her. Sorry.) Too bad. Don't fuckin' call me "white boy" if you don't expect -- and will get angry -- if I as a white person call anyone here I know is black "mah nigga." If I should decide to "joke" and call someone black here "spooky," is it alright, as long as I say, "I just couldn't resist"? Not even, "I'M SORRY -- I just couldn't resist." Just, "I just couldn't resist." Fuckin' stupid. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #31 February 13, 2006 We don't have a single black voice in this thread, do we. I'm done. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #32 February 13, 2006 QuoteAfrican American friends So your black friends are from africa and now live in america?Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #33 February 13, 2006 QuoteWe don't have a single black voice in this thread, do we. Not yet, but you do have a voice who has actually LIVED through apartheid and had friends on both 'sides'. I've seen first hand racism like most modern day US victim kids have never even dreamt of. Hanging on to the past is a sure way to repeat it. Nor we shouldn't ever forget it and pretend like it never happened but moving on is neccesary to heal. Cases like this make me wonder if we're moving at all. Seeing as this concerns a 'white' teacher using a 'black' word I fail to see how having no black voices makes one iota of difference. We need to decide, together, if it's acceptable or not. While it pains me to agree with Jeffery () I think his example of a nazi flag was appropriate and accurate.To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #34 February 13, 2006 QuoteWhat's your excuse for her not trying to hold herself above the degeneracy of use of that word in her "culture and community"? very funny coming from a guy whose every second word is fuck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #35 February 13, 2006 He is a disgrace to crackers everywhere...I just hope the black folks dont hold it against us. Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 February 13, 2006 QuoteThe simple fact is, white boy, you don't get to decide. They do. And they have. And thus those with the most racial guilt perpetuate the problem even with the best of intentions. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #37 February 14, 2006 To his defense, the word "fuck" applies just about equally to all races. The words nigga/nigger doesn't. Having said that, all this "white boy" "niggah" stuff is indicative of humans being far less "socially evolved" than we like to think. Use of such generic terms have as much meaning to me as "YOU! WITH THE PANTS! PANTS-GUY!" to me. In fact, any time anyone will use generic stereotypical words, my response shall from now be PANTS-. So whaddup, PANTS-GUY? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #38 February 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat's your excuse for her not trying to hold herself above the degeneracy of use of that word in her "culture and community"? very funny coming from a guy whose every second word is fuck. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #39 February 14, 2006 I didn't think you would get it...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #40 February 14, 2006 He seems to have a problem with that often Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #41 February 14, 2006 In all reality here, the real issue is did the teacher have credibility to say a thing like that. As it was said before, traditionally discriminatory words against a minority or protected group have many times been turned around and used as an empowering term...nigga, queer, I even have gay friends who have done the same with the word fag. A person in that gropu has credibility. That person has grown up with the difficulties of simply "being different from the straight, white, christian person." Think about Chris Rock or now days even more so, Dave Chapel, they have credibility. Carlos Mencias has credibility to poke fun at Latino/Latinas. Now many comedians such as these men expand their jokes to other races/minorities, but generally it is with credibility because they understand where those groups come from. Now lets take Larry the Cable Guy, this is a person who has grown up as a White Christian straight man. What a tough life. We all have priviledge in one way or another, but when we have an enourmous amount of priviledge, we don't have the credibility to create satire about a minority group with less priviledge than us. Larry the cable guy speaks about the Mexicans and their beans. He speaks about God needing to be with the Pygmies in Africa. He speaks about the "Gooks." He makes jokes about gays, lesbians, women, black folks, asians, and Mexicans. Where does he have any right to do this. The thing is, we probably have all listened to him do stand up, but he has no credibility for this. When do we hear him making fun of white folks? I'm not saying that I think these words should be turned around and used as an empowering word...thats for anyone who has experienced discrimination using that word to decide. But I am saying that the child has validity in being angry with and personally hurt by the teacher saying the word. Like I said, I have gay friends who call each other queer all the time. If the teacher was to say to a child "sit back down, queer," would we recieve this same controversy of whether it was ok? I think that would be an almost more serious offence, and GLBTQ folks are not even a protected group as far as the government is concerned. As white folks, we have no credibility to decide whether or not a minority can use a word that has traditionally been against them. I guess I would turn it around and show that the term "cracker" has been passed around on this thread alot. In the past, this term has been against the white people and now we use it within our group...coincidence? I think not. Same story, but we are hard at seeing thse things. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #42 February 14, 2006 I don't believe for a second that only American minorities are poor and have a hard life. In fact, suggesting that is prejudism in itself. I know hoodlums living rough, unprivileged lives from the get-go - and their ethnicity is caucasian. Not bad people, and not good either. What "rights" do these people, who are a minority (although not a racial one) have that ordinary Joe doesn't? That Blacks or Mexicans don't? I can guarantee you that their position in life has been used against them. What words are they permitted to make their own? Who're we to judge? If ethnicity is the lone arbitrator, that's a pretty narrow, messed up way of measuring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #43 February 14, 2006 Quote If ethnicity is the lone arbitrator, that's a pretty narrow, messed up way of measuring. I never said it was just racial minorities that reserve the right to use words for themselves. I absolutely agree with you that a poor white person has just as many rights in the same way a black person does or a gay man does for example. I believe that we are all priviledged or unpriviledged in the ways of: race, gender, sexual orientation, age, ability, income, and religion. Every one of us has priviledge to one degree or another. That is important for ALL of us to recognize. But ethnicity is the subject at hand. We are discussing the word nigga vs. nigger and what makes it ok to say these things or not ok to say these things. A person is entitled to thier own opinion on this issue, but in MY opinion, for a minority group to take back a word and use it as stregnth, is for that minority group ONLY to decide. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #44 February 14, 2006 Quote "YOU! WITH THE PANTS! PANTS-GUY!" to me. Hey...I don't wear pants. Thanks a lot! Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #45 February 15, 2006 QuoteNow lets take Larry the Cable Guy, this is a person who has grown up as a White Christian straight man. What a tough life. We all have priviledge in one way or another, but when we have an enourmous amount of priviledge, we don't have the credibility to create satire about a minority group with less priviledge than us. Larry the cable guy speaks about the Mexicans and their beans. He speaks about God needing to be with the Pygmies in Africa. He speaks about the "Gooks." He makes jokes about gays, lesbians, women, black folks, asians, and Mexicans. Where does he have any right to do this. The thing is, we probably have all listened to him do stand up, but he has no credibility for this. When do we hear him making fun of white folks? Boo-hoo. Yer breakin' my fuckin' heart. Listen to YOU -- the arbiter of who is entitled to make fun of what! You must truly have no idea how sickeningly fuckin' pathetic that sounds. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #46 February 15, 2006 I'm not making fun of anything! Why does it sound pathetic? To me, you sound pretty ignorant and close minded to respond with such a childish reply. I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in there, but all I get is flamed from someone not even open to listening to peoples' ideas. Thanks for keeping this an intelligent and constructive debate/conversation Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #47 February 15, 2006 QuoteI'm not making fon of anything! Why does it sound pathetic? To me, you sound pretty ignorant and close minded to respond with such a childish reply. I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in there, but all I get is flamed from someone not even open to listening to peoples' ideas. I'm done with this. This is the first and last time I come to the speakers corner. I'm sticking to the gear and swooping forums. THe places that this site is around for. I'll be sorry to see you go, Travis, inasmuch as you know how to think. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #48 February 15, 2006 QuoteI'm not making fun of anything! Why does it sound pathetic? To me, you sound pretty ignorant and close minded to respond with such a childish reply. I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in there, but all I get is flamed from someone not even open to listening to peoples' ideas. Thanks for keeping this an intelligent and constructive debate/conversation What I said was "pathetic" is your taking it upon yourself to tell us that because Larry the Cable Guy is a "privileged white male," he should not be permitted to make racial jokes. I think it's pathetic that you deign to tell us all who IS and IS NOT allowed the right to make certain jokes. As in, who died and left you Boss? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #49 February 15, 2006 QuoteI'll be sorry to see you go, Travis, inasmuch as you know how to think. rl Yeah, so much for, "I'm done." And what an amazing coincidence: the set of people who agree with you is an exact overlay of the set of people who apparently "know how to think." How come you never mean it when you say you're finished with a thread? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #50 February 15, 2006 QuoteHow come you never mean it when you say you're finished with a thread? Because we don't understand English quite the same way. I am done with this thread. You haven't seem me post an argument for or against anything since I said I was done. But I've been watching Travis argue with quite a bit of delight, and I'm sorry to see him go. QuoteAnd what an amazing coincidence: the set of people who agree with you is an exact overlay of the set of people who apparently "know how to think." When you're not flying off the handle, PJ, I enjoy your arguments too. As I already told you in that PM, the hyperbole and other literary (and punctuation) devices are just too much for my stressed-out state to handle, so I can't easily read your posts right now. It doesn't mean that some of them aren't worth reading. It also doesn't mean that you're incapable of thinking; it's just that sometimes you choose not to and you blow instead. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
