ViperPilot 0 #76 February 22, 2006 It doesn't matter if we spend a billion cajillion times more on defense...all it takes is a million bucks from the terrorists to buy a working nuclear bomb, probably less...but I don't know about those things. And believe me, they're swimming in millions of dollars. So just b/c we spend an assload doesn't mean that someone spending a few measely bucks comparatively can't do horrible harm to us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #77 February 22, 2006 QuoteWe've been hearing that since the 1950's. The commies were going to kill us all. The Chinese are going to kill us all. And they HAD nuclear weapons and missiles. The terrorists don't. A wise man concerns himself with real threats, not chimeras. Makes sense, but at the same time you need to see the point of view that the terrorists HATE us more than China or the SU ever has in the past. We were rivals to the SU for hegemony, we're rivals to the Chinese now for hegemony, but despite that, they still do not hate us even close to the amount that these Islamic groups do. China doesn't have the will to launch on the US and in turn receive total anihilation, but Islam sees it different...they're the ones who believe all of them dying is worth it for the "cause." They have the will to sacrifice MAD, China and NK don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #78 February 22, 2006 >but at the same time you need to see the point of view that the >terrorists HATE us more than China or the SU ever has in the past. We said the same thing about the godless Commies. After all, they SAID they would bury us, and everyone knew that the Commies were going to kill us all in nuclear fire, even if they took heavy casualties doing it. They had a "manifest destiny" to spread Communism everywhere no matter what it took, even near-total annhiliation. Look at the popular culture of the time - the communists were always the bad guys, and were prevented from destroying us utterly only by the swift, brave and decisive actions of the US and its allies. When China becomes our enemy, we will forget about the terrorists and decide that China hates us worse than anyone ever has. It's nothing to do with who _really_ hates what, it's what our government wants us to believe - because a fearful populace is a compliant one. And our government has people very, very scared of Islamic terrorism right now, which is exactly how they want it. BTW this works both ways. The extremists are managing to convince Muslims that we want them exterminated, and have only point to the latest "collateral damage" in Iraq or the latest torture photos to prove it. We should stop giving them such good material to work with; it makes their jobs way too easy. >They have the will to sacrifice MAD, China and NK don't. We believe that now. Way back when, we didn't believe that. That's why Reagan's Star Wars got any traction at all. After all, you don't need it if the commies don't have the stomach for MAD. History repeats, which is why it's worth learning from. Consider how we won the Cold War, and which actions during that time were smart and which were mistakes. (I can think of one big mistake.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #79 February 22, 2006 Quote (I can think of one big mistake.) Yeah but just think of all the money the military industrial complex made off that little mistake over there in the South East Asian War Games. Most of the Hawks did quite nicely.. and they avoided going themselves.. a win win for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #80 February 22, 2006 QuoteAfter all, they SAID they would bury us, and everyone knew that the Commies were going to kill us all in nuclear fire, even if they took heavy casualties doing it. Actually the SU was very smart and never once showed the kind of "suicidal" tendencies that Islamic groups do today. Yes we escalated back and forth w/ each other, but never once did the SU say that they were completely willing to take nuclear holocaust for a nuclear holocaust on us. Only Castro was insane enough to suggest that, not Khruschev. They acted agressively at times, yes, but they did not say "we will bury you with nuclear arms" or anything along those lines. What has Iran's president said in the recent past? Completely different my friend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #81 February 22, 2006 Actually that is exactly what Khrushchev said in his UN speech. Beating on the table with his shoe, yellling "We Will Bury You!" We were closer to having Nukes dropped on US cities over the 2000 Kursk incident than you may realize. "muslim extreamists" are no where near the threat the Soviet state has been over the years to US citizens."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #82 February 22, 2006 Really? Well I stand corrected if he used those words...but he didn't say we will bury you with our nuclear arsenal did he? (just checking). A statement like "we will bury you" is merely the beating of the chest that took place back then, whoopty fucking do (sp?). We all did it, we all still do it, who gives a rat's ass. That's not the point. I still stand by the fact that Khruschev just did not display the suicidal demeanor that Islamic groups do today. He beat his chest, just like we did and states all around the world today (including us) do. That's part of intl politics. But the SU certainly did not portray the amount of suicidal animosity towards us that Islamic groups do today...regardless of weaponry capability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #83 February 22, 2006 Quote Actually that is exactly what Khrushchev said in his UN speech. Beating on the table with his shoe, yellling "We Will Bury You!" We were closer to having Nukes dropped on US cities over the 2000 Kursk incident than you may realize. "muslim extreamists" are no where near the threat the Soviet state has been over the years to US citizens. IIRC he was talking about burying us economically. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #84 February 22, 2006 > but never once did the SU say that they were completely willing to take >nuclear holocaust for a nuclear holocaust on us. Google "missile gap." The idea was they could blow us up more than we could blow them up, and thus they would risk a nuclear holocaust because ours would be worse. That's the primary reason for the tremendous buildup of arms that took place in the 60's and 70's. I find it pretty funny that we have people saying "the USSR was really smart, and used propaganda to try to deceive us - not like those islamic terrorists!" History repeats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #85 February 22, 2006 Quote Google "missile gap." The idea was they could blow us up more than we could blow them up, and thus they would risk a nuclear holocaust because ours would be worse. That's the primary reason for the tremendous buildup of arms that took place in the 60's and 70's. Uh and before that was the Bomber Gap http://www.coldwar.org/articles/50s/bomber_gap.asp Duck and Cover.... gawd I used to hate that in school... you got all yucky on the dirty floor or ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #86 February 22, 2006 There's an entire generation of young voters who don't have any memory of life during the Cold War. I now officially feel like an old guy, I'm only 33."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twibbles 0 #87 February 22, 2006 QuoteQuotebut that might be more the suharto regiem using the army/militia along religious lines against the chinese-christian minority You can blame almost all the problems in that region (during that period) on Suharto and his cronyism. THe guy was patronaging out the ass and just destroying every aspect of the region. I remember, at one point Suharto wanted to build a nuclear reactor in Indonesia. Now if you remember why the boxing day tsnaumi happened... Eugene "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
