warpedskydiver 0 #26 February 21, 2006 Besides I think it's unfair from the technical standpoint That's one grip more than the rest of us want to use and think about the formations!!! oh the humanity!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #27 February 21, 2006 QuoteMinorities get together, hang out, have fun. Being a straight white male puts you in the majority. Any basic day at the DZ is a "straight-white-male" day. That's bullshit. Any basic day at the DZ is supposed to be about the skydiving, and who gives a shit what gender of human being I'm gonna fuck when I get home? There's nothing about "any basic day at the DZ" that makes it a better day spent there for me as a heterosexual than for some other dude as a gay man. QuoteHaving said that, I don't care much for segregated boogies, be it on sexual orientation, gender or discipline. Well, I'm glad to hear you say so, anyway. I know that they don't say, "Don't come to skydive if you're a breeder, handsome!" But the idea that the day "belongs" to a group because of something about them that is unrelated to what they do when they skydive is, to me, stupid. QuoteOf course I'm a hypocrite so will gladly attend freefly oriented ones. If I was gay, a rainbow boogie would be cool. If I was a chick, Chicks Rock boogie would kick ass. Come on. Like Bill, you fall into the trap of thinking that skydive-discipline-specific boogies are the same as sexual-orientation-specific (or -themed) boogies. Of course I support the idea of freefly boogies or wingsuit boogies, etc. -- they have something skydive-specific to accomplish. Why not have a boogie where the loads are easier to organize because there's a bunch of wingsuit flyers, with no worries about freeflyers interfering, or vice versa? But gayness has nothing to do with the skydiving that will go on. For the same reason, I would not begrudge dragster fans for having a dragster event and asking that stock cars not bother to come out for it since it's not set up to do stock-car driving. And you reminded me that I'm still pissed off that gays have commandeered the use of the image of a rainbow, which is a really cool thing, and now straight people can't use it as stickers on their cars and stuff because people will misconstrue it as being a statement that they're gay. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #28 February 21, 2006 QuoteDo heterosexual skydivers band together and have events to celebrate their wonderful straightness? No, but that's because they don't need to, since they're in the majority. But gays are not only in the minority, they're often discriminated against, or at least made to feel uncomfortable to be openly gay. So gay skydivers find this outlet to connect with each other in a single location, without other people judging them. This all seems so obvious to me, I wonder why I have to explain it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #29 February 21, 2006 QuoteIMO? - If it makes money, then it was a good idea. If it doesn't, then it was a silly idea. God, I hope that is not really your standard for whether something has merit in and of itself. That buck-toothed chinese guy who bombed out on American Idol, didn't he make an entire album of bad singing and it made money. I'm sure it more-than broke even, anyway. Does that mean it was a "good idea"? Not every time someone asks about a "good idea" do they mean "in a BUSINESS sense, rehmwa. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #30 February 21, 2006 QuoteQuote And you reminded me that I'm still pissed off that gays have commandeered the use of the image of a rainbow, which is a really cool thing, and now straight people can't use it as stickers on their cars and stuff because people will misconstrue it as being a statement that they're gay. - What rubbish! If you want a rainbow on your car, no-one or nothing is stopping you except your own bias and prejudice. Who made YOU King of the Universe, to tell anyone else what kind of boogie they should organize?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rebecca 0 #31 February 21, 2006 ***So, do the people who organize it do so because they see a chance to sell jumps, gear and food/drink to a bunch of gay people (and/or their friends/family)? yes Or is it about gay pride? yes Or is it about putting an agenda in front of any media who might watch? I dunno, if they want it be it could... What's the motivation, then? fun? camraderie?(No, surely not!) You seem to be saying it's about a chance to do commerce.I shouldn't have used the term 'market'. I meant, there's enough people to afford a boogie. They don't work so good when only 3 jumpers show... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #32 February 21, 2006 QuoteNo, but that's because they don't need to, since they're in the majority. But gays are not only in the minority, they're often discriminated against, or at least made to feel uncomfortable to be openly gay. So gay skydivers find this outlet to connect with each other in a single location, without other people judging them. This all seems so obvious to me, I wonder why I have to explain it. Actually, your explanation fails the smell-test. If this is about having a skydiving event where they are not discriminated against, the gays would ask that straight people not attend. After all, if you recognize that men go to chick-boogies, and straights are entitled/invited to go to gay boogies, how do you know that the "majority straight population" will not just overwhelm the gay population at the gay people's own boogie and again make them feel discriminated against for being openly gay, just like at "any other day at the DZ"? For what it's worth, I don't think I've ever heard of or seen anti-gay discrimination at any DZ I've ever been to. (Granted, I haven't gone jumping in, like, the heart of Alabama or something.) --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #33 February 21, 2006 Gay skydivers make up a very small percentage of our population. If I was a gay skydiver, I would probably enjoy a day of getting to hang out and skydive with a bunch of other gay skydivers. It would be a completely different vibe than a normal day at the dz, and it's fun to have different vibes sometimes... Hmm, and actually gay day sounds like fun even though I'm not gay... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #34 February 21, 2006 Quote>WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE EQUAL!!! We're not. Chuck Blue is a better wingsuit pilot than me; I'm a better bigway jumper than Keith. We're not even the same size, color, religion, sexual orientation or smell! The whole "everyone is equal" thing is nonsense. Go to any DZ and find any two people who are identical; you won't. (We are all equal under the _law_ but boogies are not legal entities; they are parties.) I was strictly speaking about constitutional law I would be the first to say that we are not all equal in skills... BECAUSE I AM THE WORLD'S WORST LIVING SKYDIVER! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #35 February 21, 2006 QuoteGay skydivers make up a very small percentage of our population. If I was a gay skydiver, I would probably enjoy a day of getting to hang out and skydive with a bunch of other gay skydivers. It would be a completely different vibe than a normal day at the dz, and it's fun to have different vibes sometimes... Hmm, and actually gay day sounds like fun even though I'm not gay... ...which is basically my point, Jeff. See my above post re: "fellowship" and "comfortable environment." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #36 February 21, 2006 For what it's worth, I don't think I've ever heard of or seen anti-gay discrimination at any DZ I've ever been to. (Granted, I haven't gone jumping in, like, the heart of Alabama or something.) - Exactly!!! DAMN THEY EVEN LET ME JUMP AND HANG AROUND!!! now that's non-discrimination!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #31 February 21, 2006 ***So, do the people who organize it do so because they see a chance to sell jumps, gear and food/drink to a bunch of gay people (and/or their friends/family)? yes Or is it about gay pride? yes Or is it about putting an agenda in front of any media who might watch? I dunno, if they want it be it could... What's the motivation, then? fun? camraderie?(No, surely not!) You seem to be saying it's about a chance to do commerce.I shouldn't have used the term 'market'. I meant, there's enough people to afford a boogie. They don't work so good when only 3 jumpers show... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #32 February 21, 2006 QuoteNo, but that's because they don't need to, since they're in the majority. But gays are not only in the minority, they're often discriminated against, or at least made to feel uncomfortable to be openly gay. So gay skydivers find this outlet to connect with each other in a single location, without other people judging them. This all seems so obvious to me, I wonder why I have to explain it. Actually, your explanation fails the smell-test. If this is about having a skydiving event where they are not discriminated against, the gays would ask that straight people not attend. After all, if you recognize that men go to chick-boogies, and straights are entitled/invited to go to gay boogies, how do you know that the "majority straight population" will not just overwhelm the gay population at the gay people's own boogie and again make them feel discriminated against for being openly gay, just like at "any other day at the DZ"? For what it's worth, I don't think I've ever heard of or seen anti-gay discrimination at any DZ I've ever been to. (Granted, I haven't gone jumping in, like, the heart of Alabama or something.) --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #33 February 21, 2006 Gay skydivers make up a very small percentage of our population. If I was a gay skydiver, I would probably enjoy a day of getting to hang out and skydive with a bunch of other gay skydivers. It would be a completely different vibe than a normal day at the dz, and it's fun to have different vibes sometimes... Hmm, and actually gay day sounds like fun even though I'm not gay... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #34 February 21, 2006 Quote>WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE EQUAL!!! We're not. Chuck Blue is a better wingsuit pilot than me; I'm a better bigway jumper than Keith. We're not even the same size, color, religion, sexual orientation or smell! The whole "everyone is equal" thing is nonsense. Go to any DZ and find any two people who are identical; you won't. (We are all equal under the _law_ but boogies are not legal entities; they are parties.) I was strictly speaking about constitutional law I would be the first to say that we are not all equal in skills... BECAUSE I AM THE WORLD'S WORST LIVING SKYDIVER! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #35 February 21, 2006 QuoteGay skydivers make up a very small percentage of our population. If I was a gay skydiver, I would probably enjoy a day of getting to hang out and skydive with a bunch of other gay skydivers. It would be a completely different vibe than a normal day at the dz, and it's fun to have different vibes sometimes... Hmm, and actually gay day sounds like fun even though I'm not gay... ...which is basically my point, Jeff. See my above post re: "fellowship" and "comfortable environment." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #36 February 21, 2006 For what it's worth, I don't think I've ever heard of or seen anti-gay discrimination at any DZ I've ever been to. (Granted, I haven't gone jumping in, like, the heart of Alabama or something.) - Exactly!!! DAMN THEY EVEN LET ME JUMP AND HANG AROUND!!! now that's non-discrimination!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #37 February 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote And you reminded me that I'm still pissed off that gays have commandeered the use of the image of a rainbow, which is a really cool thing, and now straight people can't use it as stickers on their cars and stuff because people will misconstrue it as being a statement that they're gay. - What rubbish! If you want a rainbow on your car, no-one or nothing is stopping you except your own bias and prejudice. Who made YOU King of the Universe, to tell anyone else what kind of boogie they should organize? You seem to really enjoy responding to things that aren't there, and also pretending that reality is not around us constantly. I never said I could not put a rainbow on my car, but I don't, because I don't want it to be seen as a statement that I'm gay when I'm not. And because gay people have "taken" that symbol, I am not entirely free to use it as a neutral symbol of, "Hey, this rainbow looks cool on my car" thing And please show where the hell I said I was "King of the Universe" and that they were not free to organize gay boogies. YOU act as though I'm not free to question why they do, which is what I was doing. I did not stand up and say, "You there! Gay people! -- You better not organize any gay boogies!" Big difference. You should look for it. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #38 February 21, 2006 What rubbish! If you want a rainbow on your car, no-one or nothing is stopping you except your own bias and prejudice. Who made YOU King of the Universe, to tell anyone else what kind of boogie they should organize? I guess there is no harm in having a KKK bumper sticker since its only letters of the english alphabet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #38 February 21, 2006 What rubbish! If you want a rainbow on your car, no-one or nothing is stopping you except your own bias and prejudice. Who made YOU King of the Universe, to tell anyone else what kind of boogie they should organize? I guess there is no harm in having a KKK bumper sticker since its only letters of the english alphabet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #39 February 21, 2006 Quote I never said I could not put a rainbow on my car, but I don't, because I don't want it to be seen as a statement that I'm gay when I'm not. And because gay people have "taken" that symbol, I am not entirely free to use it as a neutral symbol of, "Hey, this rainbow looks cool on my car" thing - Putting a rainbow on your car does not mean you are necessarily gay. It can also just mean you support gay rights. You are always so forceful anyway PJ. Why would you care if someone DID think you were gay? What the hell do they matter? You know you are not.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #40 February 21, 2006 Quote>WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE EQUAL!!! We're not. Chuck Blue is a better wingsuit pilot than me; I'm a better bigway jumper than Keith. We're not even the same size, color, religion, sexual orientation or smell! The whole "everyone is equal" thing is nonsense. Go to any DZ and find any two people who are identical; you won't. (We are all equal under the _law_ but boogies are not legal entities; they are parties.) Bill, you seem to be deliberately missing the point. You not being as good a wingsuit pilot as Chuck Blue IS a valid reason for him to maybe not want to jump with you on a wingsuit flock dive. If you were a good wingsuit pilot like Chuck and he said, "No, I won't jump with you -- you're black," then that would be discrimination. ABILITY is not an issue associated with "equality" in the sense in which we are talking about equality, Bill, and you know it. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #41 February 21, 2006 Quote How do you feel about gay-specific skydive events, or women-specific ones, or "anything"specific ones? Apart from regular themed boogies like one with a country theme, or a holiday theme, I mean. I've got no problem with it at all, and in fact, as I've stated in Bonfire, if I can figure out a way to attend this one, I will. It sounds like a ton of fun, and that, in addition to good jumping opportunities, is why I choose boogies. But then again, I'm a self-professed fag hag, so I'll be among my people. A boogie is a collection of people getting together to skydive and have fun. I like the idea that there's a whole bunch of different types of boogies that I, as a skydiver, can choose from. There will always exist some for which I am not the target audience, but no one ever says I can't attend (I'm leaving out boogies that, for whatever reason, have license requirements that I may not meet). QuoteWhen you come out to the DZ, do the people around you have some reason that they have to know you're gay? When you come out to the DZ, do the people around you have some reason that they have to know you're straight? BTW your poll options suck. So I had to choose "other.""There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #42 February 21, 2006 QuoteQuote>WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE EQUAL!!! We're not. Chuck Blue is a better wingsuit pilot than me; I'm a better bigway jumper than Keith. We're not even the same size, color, religion, sexual orientation or smell! The whole "everyone is equal" thing is nonsense. Go to any DZ and find any two people who are identical; you won't. (We are all equal under the _law_ but boogies are not legal entities; they are parties.) Bill, you seem to be deliberately missing the point. You not being as good a wingsuit pilot as Chuck Blue IS a valid reason for him to maybe not want to jump with you on a wingsuit flock dive. If you were a good wingsuit pilot like Chuck and he said, "No, I won't jump with you -- you're black," then that would be discrimination. ABILITY is not an issue associated with "equality" in the sense in which we are talking about equality, Bill, and you know it. - no that would be racism...discrimination is to notice a difference Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #43 February 21, 2006 QuoteBill, you seem to be deliberately missing the point. Bill would never do that. But I am curious, as others have mentioned... How do you feel about JFTC or POPS or Pieces of Eight events? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #44 February 21, 2006 QuotePuttin ga rainbow on your car does not mean you are necessarily gay. It can also just mean you support gay rights. You are always so forceful anyway PJ. Why would you care if someone DID think you were gay? What the hell do they matter? You know you are not. I've had people think I'm gay before. It doesn't bother me at all. I know a gay black woman at work (personal friend, as in, we go to movies, my girlfriend subletted her 2nd bedroom, etc.). She told me that some people in our office had wondered if I were gay, to her! I laughed about it with her. (One of the guys who asked is married with a daughter but is quite widely suspected of being gay.) I knit. I make hemp necklaces. I mostly go barefoot or in flipflops when I have to, and I wear a silver toe-ring. I talk a mile-a-minute about movies and anything else that comes to mind. I'm a sweet person in person, and am polite and considerate. A lot of what I do and how I act could be considered "gay-ish" and then again a lot about me is "macho/straight-ish" (my enthusiasm for guns and knives, active sports, etc.). Doesn't matter to me. My qualm is that if I WANT to use the rainbow just because it's cool-lookin', it now inadvertently but unmistakably is seen as a pro-gay statement, which is not my intention but now cannot be avoided because of its established social association. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #45 February 21, 2006 QuoteHow do you feel about JFTC or POPS or Pieces of Eight events To me its just another theme and a different enviroment... Im not from Ireland, but Im going to dublinSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #46 February 21, 2006 Quote Doesn't matter to me. My qualm is that if I WANT to use the rainbow just because it's cool-lookin', it now inadvertently but unmistakably is seen as a pro-gay statement, which is not my intention but now cannot be avoided because of its established social association. - I still don't understand. You say don't have a problem with people thinking you are gay or pro-gay or whatever. But then you say you don't want people to mistakenly think you are pro-gay. Here's my bottom line: You like rainbows, use it as your own and fuck what everyone else thinks. Simple. Some people think my earrings make me gay. But guess, what? I like em, so they can go fuck themselves.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #47 February 21, 2006 Jeffrey, I think you should now make it your purpose in life to reclaim the rainbow for all of us straight people. Damn those gays, damn them for ruining the rainbow! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #48 February 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhen you come out to the DZ, do the people around you have some reason that they have to know you're gay? When you come out to the DZ, do the people around you have some reason that they have to know you're straight? No, and that's the point. There is no reason they have to be informed of my sexual orientation. So why is it that they have to have a sexual-orientation-oriented boogie? For my parts ( ) I think skydive events should not be broken down along such lines as s.o. or gender or race. Same with other things like public faires that are specifically for ethnicity or race. They fly in the face of the idea that we are not supposed to be judging based on those aspects of a person. QuoteBTW your poll options suck. So I had to choose "other." Sorr-ee! What options would you like there to have been? What did I leave out that you would have chosen? I admit that I quickly ran out and posted the ones I did in haste. Did they really "suck," though? Did they swallow, too? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #49 February 21, 2006 >they have something skydive-specific to accomplish. And what skydiving specific purpose does Chicks Rock have? Or a Halloween Boogie? Or a free jump on your birthday? Or a Hispanic Jumpers barbeque at the DZ? Boogies are put on because they are FUN, not because they fulfill specific goals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #50 February 21, 2006 The main reason for gay boogies is for lots of gay men and women to all get in the same place and have rampant orgies and pillow fights. My brother is gay and thats what he told me. Me thinks you may look into things too much PJ. Oh and by the way, rainbows are cool, but stickers of rainbows were gay even before gay was invented. ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
