Why is there a need for a "gay day" for skydiving? Or any other kind of "day"?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Maybe it was about the idea of justifying something that is not right, simply because people "want it."
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You have yet to explain what is "not right" about people with a common interest (besides skydiving) getting together to socialize and skydive.

Blues,
Dave

Divisiveness. I didn't cover that?
Exclusionism. I didn't cover that?
Paying attention to differences instead of just thinking of us all as skydivers. I didn't cover that?
Thinking that skydiving is where you should be trying to find your next screw instead of skydiving. I didn't cover that?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[billvon 2,991]

>Nowhere in there is an equivalency of gay boogies and slavery.

Imagine the following:

"You think you should be able to buy a gun just because you want it, and the constitution mentions it? Well, should I be able to buy a slave just because I want it and the constitution mentions it?"

Think on that, and then see if you still think it's a good analogy.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Thinking that skydiving is where you should be trying to find your next screw instead of skydiving. I didn't cover that?

Excuse me, I need to break up with my skydiver boyfriend, I guess, if I want to keep skydiving, at least under the Peaceful Jeffrey Rules of Skydiving (TM).

Can we get that put into the BSRs, please? Otherwise, how's anyone going to know that is the way we are supposed to approach the sport?

[rehmwa 2]

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Bill, I'm not here making statements to ridicule people -- I'm calmly trying to zero in on my views (it's not always easy). Of all people, why are YOU coming back at me with nasty sarcasm?

Using an analogy to get to the heart of an emotionally charged issue is most effective when the analogy used is a calmer, easier to digest example. The goal is to get people to calm down by looking at the analogy rather than the main subject.

In this case, I'd say using slavery is not a good example as lower key example.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,446]

Jeffrey, there are people who disagree with you.

Deal with it, live with it. Disagreeing with you does not make them stupid, or even wrong. Sometimes there is more than one right answer to a question.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Jeffrey, there are people who disagree with you.

Deal with it, live with it. Disagreeing with you does not make them stupid, or even wrong. Sometimes there is more than one right answer to a question.

Wendy W.

I love you.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[livendive 8]

I'm not going to write a long response to you just so you can ignore it again. If you look in this thread, you'll find that I've explained to you that not everybody goes to the dz just to skydive. Some go for the social aspects. That doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong, it just means they're doing something different than you. If your girlfriend is a non-skydiver, has she ever gone to the DZ with you? If so, why? Would you consider going to a chute & shoot boogie, where canopy accuracy and rifle accuracy determine a competition winner? If so, why?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rehmwa 2]

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Jeffrey, there are people who disagree with you.

Deal with it, live with it. Disagreeing with you does not make them stupid, or even wrong. Sometimes there is more than one right answer to a question.

Wendy W.

I love you.

I saw her first. You can have Tuesdays and Fridays.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Bill, I'm not here making statements to ridicule people -- I'm calmly trying to zero in on my views (it's not always easy). Of all people, why are YOU coming back at me with nasty sarcasm?

Using an analogy to get to the heart of an emotionally charged issue is most effective when the analogy used is a calmer, easier to digest example. The goal is to get people to calm down by looking at the analogy rather than the main subject.

So I didn't use a Rehmwa Official Size and Weight Approved Analogy (tm) so it's not valid, I guess.

Where do I mail my official apology?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Jeffrey, there are people who disagree with you.

Deal with it, live with it. Disagreeing with you does not make them stupid, or even wrong. Sometimes there is more than one right answer to a question.

Wendy W.

You know what, Wendy?

I don't recall telling anyone they were stupid or wrong or idiots because we disagree about the justification for a gay boogie. But there are plenty of people willing to get really nasty on me, and their clear implication IS that MY view is "wrong" and that I must be an idiot for thinking that way.

So there's a root of hypocrisy going on here. My view is not allowed to stand and be validated as my view. It has to be torn down and ridiculed. Answer this: are the people who are having it out with me here following your advice? Are they leaving me to have my view, and "dealing with it" and "living with it"? Nope.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[billvon 2,991]

> My view is not allowed to stand and be validated as my view.
>It has to be torn down and ridiculed.

No one would have commented on your ideas had you not asked them to. I should add something to the warning at the top of this forum:

WARNING - if you ask a question on this forum, people may answer it!

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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If your girlfriend is a non-skydiver, has she ever gone to the DZ with you? If so, why? Would you consider going to a chute & shoot boogie, where canopy accuracy and rifle accuracy determine a competition winner? If so, why?

Blues,
Dave

She has gone with me twice to the dropzone, but was a bit self-conscious. That's an issue for her and me to deal with. She also has a medical condition with her ears that may prevent her, unfortunately, from ever skydiving.

A Chute-n-Shoot? I'd love it. But that is not the same thing as a boogie based on sexual orientation, race, gender -- the things that we're told we are not supposed to factor into who we like or associate with or hire or whatever.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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> My view is not allowed to stand and be validated as my view.
>It has to be torn down and ridiculed.

No one would have commented on your ideas had you not asked them to. I should add something to the warning at the top of this forum:

WARNING - if you ask a question on this forum, people may answer it!

Bill, people didn't just respond to the question, they made it about the personalities. Did you not have to warn people about doing just that?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[rehmwa 2]

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So I didn't use a Rehmwa Official Size and Weight Approved Analogy (tm) so it's not valid, I guess.

Where do I mail my official apology?

No need, just send out your examples for approval next time.. Unless you are using the coppertone bikini team as your delivery agents, then PM me and I'll send detailed directions.

Advice, take it or leave it. I won't jump on the PJ dog-pile trend here in SC no matter how you press it.

I think you've pretty well pre-conditioned people to automatically personally attack you on any post you make - even the good posts and even some of the more even keeled people. Do you encourage this on purpose? I'd rather not, some of the subjects are pretty good if the back and forth nit-picks are deleted from the threads.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,991]

>Did you not have to warn people about doing just that?

"making it about personalities" - I don't know what that means. If it means that people don't like someone's online personality, there's nothing I can do about that. Personal attacks, however, are against the rules, and you have been one of the more consistent offenders.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I think you've pretty well pre-conditioned people to automatically personally attack you on any post you make - even the good posts and even some of the more even keeled people.

Many times people make attacks on my the back-way, by saying, "This kind of post says a lot about the poster." (Gee, what kinds of things are we hinting it says? Probably the kinds that would get someone banned if she typed them.)

So I would ask you now, my posts get people so riled, as you say, that they just can't help posting personal attacks against me? And that's my fault, nad not "speaking volumes" about them, and their lack of self-control?

At least you've noticed that people have descended to that level -- where no matter whether I've said something sensible or not, they come out and give me shit.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[rehmwa 2]

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>and you have been one of the more consistent offenders.

and receivers Bill, you can't deny that either. It's been very 2 way.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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-- where no matter whether I've said something sensible or not, they come out and give me shit.

you love it too.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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-- where no matter whether I've said something sensible or not, they come out and give me shit.

you love it too.

Um, no, I'd prefer not to be ridiculed or ostracized for stating my views.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[narcimund 0]

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Um, no, I'd prefer not to be ridiculed or ostracized for stating my views.

Nobody's ridiculed you for your views.

However, you HAVE been ridiculed for stating your views in outrageous and beligerent ways.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[wmw999 2,446]

Your view is allowed to stand; it's just not going to stand for the rest of us. No one is attacking the folks who agreed with you. But you seem to like to debate, and keep getting back to the topic even when the horse appears to be very very dead.

I'm still wondering what your opinion is of the POPS, Chicks Rock, or JFTC. It really would help to clarify my answer. If you are against all of them, it's consistent, and easy simply to disagree with and leave it alone.

If you're really only against the rainbow boogie, well, that would be inconsistent, and easier to ascribe to a certain amount of discomfort with the fact of homosexuality and its marginalization in our society. Which is still your right, but a different discussion.

But, well, we had the thread well hijacked; a lot of opinions were read and talked about. I don't think it was heading back on topic until you brought it there. The opionions were standing. What are you looking for from the thread? A groundswell of agreement? It doesn't look like it's coming. So just move on. If you really really want to get the last word, make a post and see if you can get one of the moderators to put the thread out of its misery.

My feelings are that a gay boogie is fine; just as fine as a Christian boogie, a veterans' boogie, or a FOB boogie. I'd take part in any of them, even though I'm not a veteran, an FOB, and there are Christians out there who don't consider me to be one. Heck, I take part in boogies where serious drinking goes on, and I don't drink or party much, either. I personally don't think they're divisive, and think it'll be about 95% about skydiving. Just like the POPS activities I've been to, and the women's ones.

The other 5%? Well, it's NEVER all about skydiving, is it? There's flirting going on, there's talk about guns, there's politics. We can just see each other at the dropzone, and therefore are more likely to take into account whom we're addressing and personalize the delivery. Which is also fine.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Um, no, I'd prefer not to be ridiculed or ostracized for stating my views.

Nobody's ridiculed you for your views.

However, you HAVE been ridiculed for stating your views in outrageous and beligerent ways.

Maybe we should attend a workshop on that together. You can buy me a beer afterward. And I can dump it on... Wendy's head!

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[narcimund 0]

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My feelings are that a gay boogie is fine; just as fine as a Christian boogie, a veterans' boogie, or a FOB boogie.

Wendy, once again you are supremely reasonable and well-spoken.

Too bad you addressed all of this wisdom to someone who will once again ignore all of it because he can't find a HOOK in it to fight dirty with.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[IanHarrop 42]

Thank you Wendy for puting into words what I was thinking.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[billvon 2,991]

>A Chute-n-Shoot? I'd love it.

Since it seems to bother you when certain people disagree with you, I will reply to this using something that someone else wrote. I hope you won't think that this person is "attacking your personality" or "thinking you are an idiot" or anything!

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I have no problem with gun owners. I know some and I am friends with some.

But that does not have any bearing on why some people feel that they can't just be a "skydiver" or a "biker" or a "plain-ol'-whatever." I try to imagine what is to be gained by having a shooter-specific skydiving day and I come up with nothin'. Are gun owners mistreated in skydiving? Is it directly because of people's knowledge that someone owns a gun? If so, that would need to be addressed, but people owning guns is just a fact of life, not something that is flaunted. When you come out to the DZ, do the people around you have some reason that they have to know you have a gun? What's served by that?

This is by no means intended to be an anti-gun thread (though some will accuse me). I am not looking for a big anti-gun thread (as I'm not a gun control advocate and don't support it). I want to know if people really feel that stuff like this kind of boogie is justified, and more importantly -- why?