Why is there a need for a "gay day" for skydiving? Or any other kind of "day"?
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peacefuljeffrey, in Speakers Corner
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billvon 3,031
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>For the actual mechanics of freefall and canopy piloting,
>one's sexuality has very little to say.
Not really true. People from Kate Cooper to Brian Germain have noticed that women have unique issues when it comes to skydiving. Fallrate, weight distribution and wing loading are just a few of them.
However, I agree with the gist of your argument in that it should not be an _artificial_ division. Which is why a women's competitive division, or a women's world record might be an issue for some, because it excludes men. Note that events like Chicks Rock do NOT exclude men, thus that problem really doesn't apply. It's an event that brings all kinds of skydivers to the DZ.
>As such, I believe there is little actual need for promoting equal rights . . .
I think that's where some people are getting lost. No one has proposed that this is an event for "promoting equal rights." It's an issue that just doesn't exist.
>one's sexuality has very little to say.
Not really true. People from Kate Cooper to Brian Germain have noticed that women have unique issues when it comes to skydiving. Fallrate, weight distribution and wing loading are just a few of them.
However, I agree with the gist of your argument in that it should not be an _artificial_ division. Which is why a women's competitive division, or a women's world record might be an issue for some, because it excludes men. Note that events like Chicks Rock do NOT exclude men, thus that problem really doesn't apply. It's an event that brings all kinds of skydivers to the DZ.
>As such, I believe there is little actual need for promoting equal rights . . .
I think that's where some people are getting lost. No one has proposed that this is an event for "promoting equal rights." It's an issue that just doesn't exist.
QuoteNo one has proposed that this is an event for "promoting equal rights."
Say that 100 more times and they still won't hear you. They don't want to. They just won't accept that there's a party going on somewhere that they can't get indignant about.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Dolph 0
Quote
Not really true. People from Kate Cooper to Brian Germain have noticed that women have unique issues when it comes to skydiving. Fallrate, weight distribution and wing loading are just a few of them.
Hm yes, but that'd be anatomical differences between men and women. Of course if we expand the original subject from gay boogie to chicks rock, I see your point. But, as a counter point I say this: men have unique issues with regards to fallrate, weight distribution and wing loading.
.
On a more serious note, is it not possible that deviations from the standard so to speak may in general terms be larger within each group than between them? A fatty compared to a skinny in each group can represent both ends of the scale.
Quote
I think that's where some people are getting lost. No one has proposed that this is an event for "promoting equal rights." It's an issue that just doesn't exist.
Humm, you're right about that. Some kind of automatic assumption on my part. Pretty dumb one, too. My apologies to anyone I've offended by that.
billvon 3,031
>But, as a counter point I say this: men have unique issues
>with regards to fallrate, weight distribution and wing loading.
I agree. We call people with these people "the base." (just kidding.) Yeah, men definitely have unique issues. Since skydiving is a male-dominated sport, often those issues are adressed better than female issues are. But the issues are still there.
>is it not possible that deviations from the standard so to speak may
>in general terms be larger within each group than between them?
Of course! Heck, in Thailand there were two women in the base and several men in the outer wackers. But in general the wing loading/weight distribution etc stuff holds.
>with regards to fallrate, weight distribution and wing loading.
I agree. We call people with these people "the base." (just kidding.) Yeah, men definitely have unique issues. Since skydiving is a male-dominated sport, often those issues are adressed better than female issues are. But the issues are still there.
>is it not possible that deviations from the standard so to speak may
>in general terms be larger within each group than between them?
Of course! Heck, in Thailand there were two women in the base and several men in the outer wackers. But in general the wing loading/weight distribution etc stuff holds.
Come to think of it, how does the designation result in anything much different occurring at the actual event? I attended some sort of "chicks" boogie at Rome a few years back, but if I didn't know the boogie had a title I would have thought it was just another day at the DZ, albeit with a bunch of people who didn't usually jump there. Otherwise, there was nothing "extra," such as special aircraft, big-name organizers, etc., that would have caused anyone to notice this was a "boogie" as opposed to a bunch of skydivers spending a weekend at the DZ.
Cheers,
Jon S.
Cheers,
Jon S.
QuoteHumm, you're right about that.
I stand corrected!
I'll REALLY eat my hat when "Peaceful" Jeffrey admits he was also making a big fuss over nothing.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
QuoteJeffery,
When you go to the dz or a boogie, do you like checkin' out the hotties? A little skydiving, a little beer at the end of the day, a little flirtation?
Now imagine you are gay and jumping with all straight people. Who are you going to flirt with? Who are you going to check out.
That really is not the reason I go to the dropzone. I go to the dropzone to skydive.
If there's the chance to flirt, I may take it, I may leave it. I certainly won't do a bunch of jumps and then go home lamenting that I couldn't get any flirting done at a place where I go to skydive.
So what if gay people don't get as clear a chance to flirt at the dropzone? Is there supposed to be some entitlement to equal opportunity to flirt? Like, if there are only 3 known gay people there, but 17 known straight people, the straight people are being given something unfair and the gays stand to have something done on their behalf to even things out??
So sorry that there aren't as many gays around as there are straights. Is that something straights have to come up with a solution for?
Besides, if a gay person wants to test someone's tolerance, he can just check out the asses of, and flirt with, the straight guys. See what happens then. I'm completely straight, but if a gay guy makes some flirtation with me, I can handle it and make a joke out of it or whatever and it's no big deal to me. And if a guy OR a girl wants to check out my ass and like it (as in look at it...) fine!
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
wmw999 2,485
I believe they're coming up with their own solution. You don't seem to like that, and you're wondering why they need a solution. You're not being asked to contribute to or participate in the solution.QuoteSo sorry that there aren't as many gays around as there are straights. Is that something straights have to come up with a solution for?
At least as far as I can tell. And you still haven't answered my question about POPS and JFTC.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteI'd love it if this thread goes on forever (without degenerating negatively). It's good marketing. Keep it up.
Quote
Heh, "keep it up." Is that a sexual reference?
Um, I just came up with a fabulouth way you can thank me for giving you all thith exthpothure and publithity!...
I started a thread to gripe about a gay-specific boogie, and before you know it, the thread was FLaMinG!
--Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
QuoteSo sorry that there aren't as many gays around as there are straights. Is that something straights have to come up with a solution for?
A gay person found a solution and you're REALLY bent out of shape about it.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
QuoteI, on a conceptual level, disagree with the basic premise that sexuality should be a major factor in any activity where its relevance is nearly nil. In skydiving I feel this is the case.
Jeebus Cripes, why didn't I just say THAT at the very beginning?!
Thanks, Dolph.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
QuoteQuoteI, on a conceptual level, disagree with the basic premise that sexuality should be a major factor in any activity where its relevance is nearly nil.
{sigh...}
This is not a sexuality boogie. it's an affinity group boogie.
And thus the entire argument dissapears in a puff of smoke.
Skydivers don't like each other enough to just have a "skydivers' boogie," then? It has to be specified to be about a sexual-orientation-affinity?
You missed again.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
Quote>For the actual mechanics of freefall and canopy piloting,
>one's sexuality has very little to say.
Not really true. People from Kate Cooper to Brian Germain have noticed that women have unique issues when it comes to skydiving. Fallrate, weight distribution and wing loading are just a few of them.
Does a gay man skydive differently from a straight man?
Does a lesbian skydive differently from a straight woman?
Bill, you're wide of the target again. You're talking about GENDER, not what you claimed to be talking about, which is SEXUALITY.
Has Brian Germain spoken about the differences between gay and straight skydivers? Because you brought up the differences between WOMEN and MEN. Not at all the same thing, and not at all on topic.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
It's cute that "Peaceful" Jeffrey keeps saying he wants to understand, but the only posts he responds to are the ones he thinks he can score "points" against.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Rebecca 0
Jeffrey,
Why the flying hell does it matter to you? How on earth does a gay boogie affect you? Either go and have fun, or don't go and shut up about it.
Thweetie.
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
Why the flying hell does it matter to you? How on earth does a gay boogie affect you? Either go and have fun, or don't go and shut up about it.
Thweetie.
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
QuoteJeffrey,
Why the flying hell does it matter to you? How on earth does a gay boogie affect you? Either go and have fun, or don't go and shut up about it.
Thweetie.
Oh boy, are you gonna get shit for this.
This should be good.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
billvon 3,031
>Does a gay man skydive differently from a straight man?
We were not talking about the same thing you are, and you know it. Geez, give it up already.
We were not talking about the same thing you are, and you know it. Geez, give it up already.
{sigh...}
This is not a sexuality boogie. it's an affinity group boogie.
And thus the entire argument dissapears in a puff of smoke.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
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