For those of you outside of New York, how many believe the following about your local Police?

[SuperKat 0]

After you select your choice, please give a detailed explanation why you feel that way and what you think they should do to change and service the public better.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I can't vote in that. I don't feel that any of the choices are across-the-board valid of all cops, or even of a police department in general.

Some departments around here are well-known for being rife with various types of corruption.

Riviera Beach, for example, is a shitty town and has a police department in which some of the members get arrested for beating or killing their wives. There was one case in which a female cop shot and killed her husband on Thanksgiving day a few years ago. (Claimed he'd been beating her; but I don't think the shooting was done during a beating that she was seeking to end because she feared for her life or anything. I think it was done retribution-, I've-had-enough-of-your-shit style.)

Pahokee, Florida's police department is so corrupt that they are DISBANDING IT and replacing the department's duties with Palm Beach County Sheriff's Deputies to do the police work there. (Pahokee is also a slum of drugs, AIDS and criminality, festering in its own feces.)

I long ago stopped believing that Mr. Officer is your Friend and He's Here to Help You in an altruistic and magnanimous sense. I've seen and heard cops be asshole jerkoffs. And I've been on the receiving end of VERY professional, courteous treatment by them.

Overall, I think that if you don't act as an asshole to cops, you are not going to have a problem with them.

Avoid committing criminal acts, for one.

Avoid DRESSING and CARRYING YOURSELF in a way that EMULATES criminals (think "hip-hop dress" and demeanor) and you will not be associated, mentally, with criminals in a cop's mind.

Be polite and respectful when you deal with cops who approach you.

What makes you start this thread, anyway? Have you been unjustifiedly hassled by cops?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[SuperKat 0]

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Overall, I think that if you don't act as an asshole to cops, you are not going to have a problem with them.

I disagree with this. In NY, they have a civilian complaint review board that are on the people's side rather than the cops side. If anyone, makes an unfounded complaint about a cop assaulting them, cursing at them, or that are even discourteous to them, the cops are already on the chopping block. Some even get assigned to administrative duty (depending on the complaint) until further investigation clears them. So in NY, Cops are supposed to respect civilians on all levels, even those that have just broke the law.

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Avoid DRESSING and CARRYING YOURSELF in a way that EMULATES criminals (think "hip-hop dress" and demeanor) and you will not be associated, mentally, with criminals in a cop's mind.

Another thing that I have to disagree with. In NY cops are prohibited to racially profile a person and even stereotype a person. If they commit this wrongful act, they will be investigated and it could lead to a suspension, termination or modified duty, depending on the offense that was committed.

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Be polite and respectful when you deal with cops who approach you.

This is not a requirement but it does help. Cops in NY have to be polite and respectful to all, no matter what kind of repoire you get.

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What makes you start this thread, anyway?

What makes people start anything kind of thread that takes polls? Cuz I'm bored and I'm curious about how people feel about cops. There are very few people here that live in the metropolitan area of New York, so I'm just curious on what their thoughts are of their local police. It seems that you're the only one that even cares to voice their opinion. Thanks for taking the time to respond to this thread.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[warpedskydiver 0]

I have met some very good police officers and some are my friends.

I have also met some that are the scum of the earth!

my conclusion is this:
Police come from a wide variety of backgrounds so what we get is a cross section of society representing both good and true evil and everything in between.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I was nearly arrested at gunpoint of shotguns and M4's for the offense of having a turn signal out.

because I was wearing camo clothing and had blood residue on my hands( plus 2 deer in the back )

good thing my friend was there (watch supervisor )in an instant because the cops looked very nervous and were heaving the barrels up and down....accident waiting to happen!

[Andy9o8 2]

I couldn't vote because you didn't have an option for "all of the above".

[Andy9o8 2]

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I was nearly arrested at gunpoint of shotguns and M4's for the offense of having a turn signal out.

because I was wearing camo clothing and had blood residue on my hands( plus 2 deer in the back )

You were only noticed because of your turn signal.

You were nearly shot because you were a scary-looking fuck wearing camo clothing and had blood residue on your hands (plus 2 deer in the back).

[hobbes4star 0]

how come you can't choose more than one??

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[Nightingale 0]

I think most are really out there to help people, but the few bad ones give them all a bad rap, because you hear about "police brutality" and all that on the news, but you don't hear about the off-duty cop out of state who stops to help at a traffic accident when he could've just kept driving and continued with his vacation.

[SuperKat 0]

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I couldn't vote because you didn't have an option for "all of the above".

Please state why you feel you should choose all of the above or are you just kidding around?

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

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You were only noticed because of your turn signal.

You were nearly shot because you were a scary-looking fuck wearing camo clothing and had blood residue on your hands (plus 2 deer in the back).

Lol. Dude, this is speakers corner, not bonfire. Where's the argumentative points?

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[Tink1717 2]

You left out "Local cops are stupid and prone to asking stupid questions that have obvious answers". Like, when covered in sweat at the end of a ten mile run, "Have you been exercising?"

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Darius11 12]

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I disagree with this. In NY, they have a civilian complaint review board that are on the people's side rather than the cops side. If anyone, makes an unfounded complaint about a cop assaulting them, cursing at them, or that are even discourteous to them, the cops are already on the chopping block. Some even get assigned to administrative duty (depending on the complaint) until further investigation clears them. So in NY, Cops are supposed to respect civilians on all levels, even those that have just broke the law.

Do you remember the guy who they shot 42 times for showing his wallet? I have a feeling if he was a white guy in a suit he would still be alive.

I lived in NY most of my life. NYC cops that I have dealt with were cool, but you can’t make a broad statement like all of them are ass holes or all of them are great just because they’re from NY.

I have dealt with guys who were really nice and guys who I wished would get shot. For the record I am always very polite with police officers

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Airman1270 0]

I believe nearly ALL cops are decent folks, operating with the best of intentions. I also believe they are victims of a culture that leads them to act in ways that are offensive to Joe citizen.

This is a culture in which they are trained to harass people in an effort to sniff out possible violations, rather than simply respond when they actually see evidence of a crime.

Example: The increasing use of K-9 units has changed the rules regarding automobile searches. As far back as I can remember they have always had the right to search in response to evidence of a crime. However, now they stop people for the direct purpose of checking them out to see what they might find. Of course, they claim some nebulous violation, such as "failure to maintain lane," window tint, etc. but it's obvious they're stopping the guy because they think they MIGHT find something. If they find nothing, they let him go, perhaps with a written "warning." If they find something, they make the arrest, maybe steal the guy's car (if it's worth anything), and bray about how they're fighting the "war on drugs," etc.

These K-9 units are expensive to maintain. They have to justify the cost to taxpayers, and there's pressure to generate income.

This is offensive. So they are conditioning the public to accept such behavior by allowing themselves to be used by school districts to search students' cars & lockers, again without cause. Young people are being trained to accept random searches and constant police scrutiny as a normal part of life in America. When people like me speak out against this crap we are described as "paranoid" and dismissed as having "something to hide."

In my radio career I spent over four years reading police reports, and am amazed at how many people are intimidated into allowing a warrantless search. People, if the cop asks to search, the answer is always "NO." If he has a valid reason to search, he doesn't need your permission! If he asks why you won't allow it, tell him it's for the same reason he doesn't want you looking through his stuff. You don't owe him an explanation.

We don't have curfews in this country. It is not illegal to walk along the roadside late at night. However, they think they have the right to stop you and check you out, again without cause. I have read of numerous arrests that began with the cop stopping the guy, asking what he's doing, etc. Maybe the guy had been drinking, or had a warrant, etc. But the cop had no business stopping him in the first place. (If I'm ever on a jury I will give serious consideration to such facts.)

I have been taking late-night walks for 30 years, and have almost never been hassled. Once I was stopped because I fit the description of someone they were looking for, but when they realized I wasn't the guy they said "thanks" and let me go. There was no demand for my ID, no "Why are you out so late?" But this was more than 15 years ago.

Another factor is political. Liberals in both parties are constantly grandstanding about how much they "care" about (insert issue du jour here) and react by demanding more laws, making it illegal to do things we were once free to do. (See the "civil liberties" thread a few months back for details.)

Police work, which once consisted of helping people and chasing bad guys, has been expanded to include the enforcement of liberalism. This results in cops harassing people who are not causing trouble and who, a few short years ago, would not have been bothered. Furthermore, economic pressure is forcing heavy-handed response to minor violations, such as making arrests when they could write tickets, writing tickets when they could give warnings, etc. Meanwhile, the litigation industry is pressuring these guys to over-respond so as not to be held liable for anything bad happening down the road should they give a guy a break.

The education system is turning out ill-informed citizens who are ignorant of the priciples that led to the Founders' creation of the Bill of Rights, etc. Many of these ignorant people choose a career in police work. I don't believe they hold your rights in contempt. Rather, they are simply doing the job as they've been trained. The standard to which they answer is not "Is this Constitutional?" but rather "Will the courts let us do this?"

This is the short version. Sorry about the limited response, but I have to go. Thanks for bringing the subject up.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[warpedskydiver 0]

You were nearly shot because you were a scary-looking fuck wearing camo clothing and had blood residue on your hands (plus 2 deer in the back).

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Excellent post, Airman1270!

I particularly agree with, and am disturbed by, this part:
"Young people are being trained to accept random searches and constant police scrutiny as a normal part of life in America."

And it's not just young people. Everyone is being inculcated to accept this. Take a look at the growing number of municipalities (and look at England) where people are put under video camera surveillance by the police -- and they fucking LIKE it, and actually BELIEVE that it's going to keep them safer than they were, and so they are actually fucking THANKFUL for the police being so kind as to constantly watch them!

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[freethefly 6]

Quote

In my radio career I spent over four years reading police reports, and am amazed at how many people are intimidated into allowing a warrantless search. People, if the cop asks to search, the answer is always "NO." If he has a valid reason to search, he doesn't need your permission! If he asks why you won't allow it, tell him it's for the same reason he doesn't want you looking through his stuff. You don't owe him an explanation.
Example: The increasing use of K-9 units has changed the rules regarding automobile searches. As far back as I can remember they have always had the right to search in response to evidence of a crime. However, now they stop people for the direct purpose of checking them out to see what they might find. Of course, they claim some nebulous violation, such as "failure to maintain lane," window tint, etc. but it's obvious they're stopping the guy because they think they MIGHT find something. If they find nothing, they let him go, perhaps with a written "warning." If they find something, they make the arrest, maybe steal the guy's car (if it's worth anything), and bray about how they're fighting the "war on drugs," etc.

Yup, never, ever let them search. I got pulled over in Wellston, Mo., a municipality in St. Louis county and well known drug area. The racecar shop where I kept my 57 chevy is located in this area. I was about a mile from the shop when I was stopped for no other reason other than my long hair as I believe (profiling). The cop asked some stupid questions and then asked if he could search my car. I said "NO". He asked why not. I told him he didn't have the right. He said if I had nothing to hide then I should not have a problem with him searching my car. I told him to go fuck himsellf. I was detained and he called for the dog. Long story short, about 6 cop cars and 10 cops plus a K9 unit showed up and after 2-3 hours of bullshit, not to mention them wasting the taxpayers money plus their time and mine, I was allowed to leave. I should had sued the stupid fucks. The asshole cop told me I could had saved everyone alot of trouble had I let him search. I made a point of it to give the stupid little wannabeacop the finger everytime I saw him on my way to the shop. It is not against the law to flip off a cop (although, in most cases, not a good idea). In hindsight, I should had just drove off as I was not under arrest. Family members who do work in law have advised just ask if you are under arrest. If the answer is no, then just drive off. They cannot hold you.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[SkyDekker 1,465]

My understanding is that police officers can detain without arrest, whereas the general public (including security guards and officers) cannot detain without arrest.

[freethefly 6]

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My understanding is that police officers can detain without arrest, whereas the general public (including security guards and officers) cannot detain without arrest.

That is what most people believe. I have had this discussion with my nephew, Kansas City police officer. He says they have no right to detain a person unless they are actually investigating a crime and you are wanted for questioning. He said all you need to do is ask if you are under arrest, if the answer is "no", then say goodbye and drive away. If the cop follows you and stops you again for no apparrent reason then it is harrasment and you can file a charge against the officer for doing such. It is good to have cops in the family as you get all the pointers on how to "Just Say No" to a cop who is being an asshole.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Skyrad 0]

Thats a pretty naieve perspective (no offence intended) the police are taken from the public and as such are a microcosim of society. You'll get good cops bad cops and in between. Some days a cop can be all three, just like the rest of us.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[miked10270 0]

Dishonest Cops are news... Just like Honest Politicians are news... Well, an Honest Politician will be news... One day... If the news people ever find one!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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That is what most people believe. I have had this discussion with my nephew, Kansas City police officer. He says they have no right to detain a person unless they are actually investigating a crime and you are wanted for questioning.

Or a well established suspicion of one. You are driving in a bdrug infested neighbourhood and refuse a search. I ams ure they will argue that they have grounds on your refusal alone. They have enough to detain you for an on-site questioning. When you start driving away from that, you might just get yourself into more trouble. At least that is how it is here in Ontario

[SuperKat 0]

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Do you remember the guy who they shot 42 times for showing his wallet? I have a feeling if he was a white guy in a suit he would still be alive.

Do you even know the whole entire story behind that? Yes, the guy got shot 41 times by police officers. Here's what really happened.

The police officers yelled out their universal command "Police, Don't MOVE!" Well, he moved and he proceeded to go into his back pocket to take his wallet out. Then, as he was doing this, one police officer was backing away, he tripped and his gun went off. At that same time, he was taking out his wallet and all they saw was a black object. Well, when that officer's gun went off, they proceeded to fire at him. The fact that he was in an apartment entrance and against a wall, the bullets from the cops' gun were ricocheting back at them. Therefore, they thought that the alleged suspect was returning fire at them. The fact that he was against a wall, he didn't drop immediately. The fact that they didn't use hollow point bullets, the bullets were ricocheting off the wall.

Could this have been handled better? We weren't there and none of us are qualified to honestly answer that.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

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Yup, never, ever let them search. I got pulled over in Wellston, Mo., a municipality in St. Louis county and well known drug area. The racecar shop where I kept my 57 chevy is located in this area. I was about a mile from the shop when I was stopped for no other reason other than my long hair as I believe (profiling). The cop asked some stupid questions and then asked if he could search my car.

This one is a tough one. He pulled you over in your car for a reason. You woudln't be able to drive away from him. I would believe that he has a right to chase you and detain you if you did. Had you been on foot and he stopped you, you could just run away or slowly walk away and he absolutely cannot chase you or force you to stay unless you're being arrested.

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I said "NO". He asked why not. I told him he didn't have the right. He said if I had nothing to hide then I should not have a problem with him searching my car. I told him to go fuck himsellf.

This is your 4th ammendment rights and he was about to violate it. He did not have enough reason or suspicion for contraband to search your car. He also didn't have a right to search your car because you didn't commit a crime or a felony. I think telling him to fuck off, just pissed him off and he thought he could do whatever he wanted to do to you.

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I was detained and he called for the dog. Long story short, about 6 cop cars and 10 cops plus a K9 unit showed up and after 2-3 hours of bullshit, not to mention them wasting the taxpayers money plus their time and mine, I was allowed to leave.

Of course you were allowed to leave. You weren't under arrest and you didn't commit a crime.

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I should had sued the stupid fucks. The asshole cop told me I could had saved everyone alot of trouble had I let him search. I made a point of it to give the stupid little wannabeacop the finger everytime I saw him on my way to the shop. It is not against the law to flip off a cop (although, in most cases, not a good idea). In hindsight, I should had just drove off as I was not under arrest. Family members who do work in law have advised just ask if you are under arrest. If the answer is no, then just drive off. They cannot hold you.

I don't know about suing them but you could have definitely made a complaint about him. He was probably a rookie. Most veteran cops know better than that.

Hate to say shoulda could woulda but you should have done something about it....now this guy is going around thinking he can do this to anyone and what not.

This would never fly in NY. If he was on probation, he would have been canned the very next morning. If he was a veteran, he would have been a laughing stock among the dept, the civilian complaint review board would have had him suspended or he would be on modified administrative duty. You would have definitely had a civil lawsuit on your hands for violating your constitutional rights. And the Dept wouldn't back him up on it. I'm really shocked at how things are done outside of NY.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

In NY you can't be a bad cop. The Civilian Complaint Review Board loves to hang cops for unfounded complaints against them. You can't even use obscene language. It's a no no and you can get hanged for it.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?