Now it's "The Long War"

[kallend 2,106]

Anyone notice the shift in nomenclature?
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/02/AR2006020202296.html

A long war is a good budget driver, and excuses Presidential incursions on the Constitution.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

They have to make sure the general populace stays scared. It is the only way this will work.

[wmw999 2,534]

It was all over NPR. That way you don't have to say exactly who the enemy is right now, and you don't have to worry about budget becuase after all, war is good for the economy.

NPR did bring up the point that pretty much all countries end up tired after a war. Not as much the US, but, well, when we're the ones in all fronts, I think that's likely to change.

WTF makes people think we're immune?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

.......... excuses Presidential incursions on the Constitution.

[crozby 0]

Quote

Rumsfeld, who laid out broad strategies for what the military and the Bush administration are now calling the "long war," likened al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden to Adolf Hitler and Vladimir Lenin while urging Americans not to give in on the battle of wills that could stretch for years. He said there is a tendency to underestimate the threats that terrorists pose to global security, and said liberty is at stake.

Why does Don "weeks not months" Rumsfeld still have a job?

[billvon 3,070]

>>excuses Presidential incursions on the Constitution.

>....if there have been any

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Do a Google search on that phrase and tell me where you think it comes from; Bush has said that he doesn't need to do that.

I can't help but think that the people who believe Bush is following the constraints of the Constitution have never read that partcular document. I'd recommend it; it's good reading.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>>excuses Presidential incursions on the Constitution.

>....if there have been any

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Do a Google search on that phrase and tell me where you think it comes from; Bush has said that he doesn't need to do that.

I can't help but think that the people who believe Bush is following the constraints of the Constitution have never read that partcular document. I'd recommend it; it's good reading.

You choose to ignore Article 18.. I have a posted legal opinion I want to attach but I can't get it to work. (it is a pdf file)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,070]

>You choose to ignore Article 18..

There is no Article 18 in the Constitution. Or did you mean Amendment 18? That's the one about prohibition.

Hmm. You might have a point there. If a president is drunk, he can't really be expected to follow the Constitution! Someone get that man some coffee!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"You choose to ignore Article 18.. I have a posted legal opinion I want to attach but I can't get it to work. (it is a pdf file) "

If it is printed text, you might be able to snag the text you are interested in by using the wee text select button from teh tool bar, or pressing V then selcting the text you want to copy (ctrl-C usually works). You may have to format the text prior to posting it here, depends on the quality of the original.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[avenfoto 0]

these stupid fucking icons dont even begin to express how i really feel about this bullshit. FUCKING BULLSHIT. america is going downhill. one day well get what we deserve. a fucking twenty year plan...

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>>excuses Presidential incursions on the Constitution.

>....if there have been any

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Do a Google search on that phrase and tell me where you think it comes from; Bush has said that he doesn't need to do that.

I can't help but think that the people who believe Bush is following the constraints of the Constitution have never read that partcular document. I'd recommend it; it's good reading.

Here's a few more:

"Let me tell you something -- Wait a minute. You know one things that's wrong with this country? Everybody gets a chance to have their fair say."

"And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it."

Doesn't look like the other side has much of a track record either.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>You choose to ignore Article 18..

There is no Article 18 in the Constitution. Or did you mean Amendment 18? That's the one about prohibition.

Hmm. You might have a point there. If a president is drunk, he can't really be expected to follow the Constitution! Someone get that man some coffee!

You are in a sour mood today. See the link

http://www.morgancunningham.net/downloads/article_22.pdf

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,070]

>You are in a sour mood today.

The "coffee" thing was a joke! Geez, you try to inject some humor . . .

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>You are in a sour mood today.

The "coffee" thing was a joke! Geez, you try to inject some humor . . .

Sorry I will try and read things closer next time

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Did you get a chance to read the link document?

If so, what did you think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,070]

>Did you get a chance to read the link document?

I did. I disagree with his conclusion that more-recent law absolves the president from following the proscriptions of the Constitution and the bill of rights. The Constitution should not be bent to the latest political wind; it should be as strong today as it was 200 years ago.

But even if you assume that he doesn't have to follow it 100%, the guy who wrote this listed three tests which should be applied to any action (in this case using the NSA to spy on US citizens) that the president takes; if he can answer yes to ALL THREE this laywer thinks the action is OK. If not it is illegal. The third test is:

3) Whether the President concluded there was no reasonable alternative to the NSA program, consistent with FISA's requirements, available to the Executive Branch.

And that's not true. He can get a warrant within minutes if he needs to; there is a provision in the Patriot Act for just that purpose. So even by this document the President's actions are unlawful.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

So even by this document the President's actions are unlawful.

Said document being that lawyer's opinion? I'm not able to open the site.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,070]

>Said document being that lawyer's opinion?

Yes; it was just an opinion piece.

[rushmc 23]

Not the way I read it......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I would submit that all judges rulings are based on thier interpitation of a law. Hense, an opinion.

This lawyers opinion is that FISA is unconstitutional in this instance.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

What bothers me about this.. is the Attorney General showing up on a sunday mornign talk show.. and saying they have the right to do as they damn please because they were given the right in the congress passing the resolution. So basicly they are saying this will be many many years of this war.. so they got an openended right to do what ever the hell they want for an indefinite period into the future.. that shouild scare the shit out of any American who has even half a fucking brain.

Yet as we see here so many on the far right are just praiising it ad nauseum....

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

... that shouild scare the shit out of any American who has even half a fucking brain.

Yet as we see here so many on the far right are just praiising it ad nauseum....

I see no contradiction there.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.