South Dakota ban's abortion

[kallend 2,093]

One thing that is abundantly clear is that whoever is responsible for the decision, it should NOT be the government.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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One thing that is abundantly clear is that whoever is responsible for the decision, it should NOT be the government theocrats in government .

There fixed it for you

[sundevil777 102]

I think it is completely unreasonable to advocate abortion on demand at any time during the pregnancy. If it is murder one second after the baby is born, I don't think it should be any less of a murder one second or one minute or one day before it is born. Being inside the woman's body should not take away the fact that it is murder at a late stage. It is completely appropriate for the govenment to punish those who murder. Mothers would certainly want more than an assault charge against someone that killed their unborn whatever-it-is.

But when is it alive? That is the point over which I think there is room for reasonable discussion. It should not be the moment of birth, and should not be the moment of conception. It should be defined by law, not by the courts.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,049]

>It should be defined by law, not by the courts.

Is that really what you meant to say?

[sundevil777 102]

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>It should be defined by law, not by the courts.

Is that really what you meant to say?

Absolutely. Every other sort of murder is defined by law. Why should this be treated differently? Just because women want to do whatever they want with whatever is inside their bodies? At some point during the pregnancy, it should be considered murder. Sorry ladies, but your 'right' should not extend indefinitely.

It should be done by our legislature, either by statute or constitutional amendment. Our lawmakers should not get to avoid tough issues, they should have to negotiate a reasonable compromise (I know everyone will certainly not be happy), and take a stand on the issue.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[tcnelson 1]

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>if an expecting father feeds chemicals to a mother that wants to keep the child . . .

It really makes me mad when people use different words to make it OK to kill a person. It's a person, not a child!

allllllrighty whatever you say.

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>if you say yes, then abortion is murder too.

When Bush proposed the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, civil rights leaders were a bit worried. Would that get used to "prove" that abortion was murder? "No, completely different," they were told.

Didn't take long for that reversal.

boy, they can't slip anything past you bill. so much for bush's evil protection plan. drat!! foiled again!!

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[billvon 3,049]

>whatever you say.

Did you hear sort of a whooshing noise there for a second? Disregard it; it was nothing you need worry about.

[tcnelson 1]

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>whatever you say.

Did you hear sort of a whooshing noise there for a second? Disregard it; it was nothing you need worry about.

whatever you say.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[rehmwa 2]

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One thing that is abundantly clear is that whoever is responsible for the decision, it should NOT be the government theocrats in government .

There fixed it for you

I think he said it just fine. In your edition I read that you think it IS ok as long as it's not the far right in charge. I don't care who's in charge - it's up to the parents. (I also don't agree with the "Parents and their doctor" position. The doctor doesn't make that choice either, he only advises)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[OATSF14 0]

***That is the most crazy response Ive ever heard.***

Really? You truly believe that voting power, (political power), does not enter into the decisions our politicians make? If it were possible for the fetus' to vote then I doubt seriously if the rush would be there from the politicians to vote for the legality to kill them. Their votes would be much to powerful. (gee..I wonder how they would vote?) People vote their views. To some it is OK to kill the little guys. To others it is not. Makes for great political battles.

[OATSF14 0]

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Some people have no problem forcing women to have their babies no matter the circumstances.. then they run for the hills away from any responsibility whatsoever of helping the mother to raise the child.

Agreed. That is but one reason this is such an emotional and divisive issue. I wonder if it will ever get better?

[hobbes4star 0]

I believe that no matter what is should be freedom of choice. I am not saying that it should or should not be legal; it should be freedom of choice. Who is the government or anyone for that matter to tell a person what to do or not to do with his or her own body? How outraged would you be if the government decided to ban plastic surgery, or tattoos, or any sort of body modification? Its personal choice and it should be up to that individual. Part of living in America and having a free society is the freedom not to have to be forced to do, say or behave in a manner that you are against and the same goes for those who do, say, or behave in a manner that makes your blood boil, because it goes against your own beliefs. That is freedom, and no matter if they do ban it, just like prohibition it will still happen. I do not believe in abortion but I do believe in freedom of choice.


edit to add: this is my first thread that has started on fire. beer anyone?

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[windcatcher 0]

Hi Darius-I think that if a woman can't deal with the thought of possibly becoming pregnant, she shouldn't be having sex ( yes folks that's what I said!) ( because even with bc, you can still get pregnant) If you can't live with the consequences of conceiving a child, then, well, there are better things to do.

I don't believe that any child, born or unborn, just happened by accident, whether the child is conceived out of rape, incest, etc. I do have compassion for women who go through these horrific events; however, I don't think the majority of abortions that have taken place are because of those reasons.
I also know women who have had abortions, and I realize there are a lot of extremely painful and psychological difficulties, feelings of shame, unforgiveness towards oneself, etc, that one can experience because of abortion ( I realize this isn't the same for everyone). I would not want to see my friends have to go through all that trauma

As far as me or anyone else getting "mad" about women having the choice, I don't agree with it; somebody has to stand up for the unheard voices in my generation; how much of my generation doesn't even exist due to abortions? I will stand up and say abortion is wrong.( Flame away!) Now, is there a lot I can do to prevent abortion? Not really; mostly just pray and show my concern if someone ever asks me.
People can do as they wish; they have a free will. However, if I can do anything in my power to prevent someone from being killed I will sure do my best, even if that means me dying for someone else.

On a more lighter note, I believe every aborted fetus and every miscarried child will be in heaven
And I apologize if I sound too harsh, I did grow up with a father who got arrested for protesting abortion He had the courage to stand up for what he believed, even if that meant getting thrown in jail. Like him, I am not afraid to back down on my position about this, not matter the disagreements that will be thrown at me

Here it comes
( And oh, I stated my position after Darius' request. Please don't argue with me)

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[sundevil777 102]

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I believe that no matter what is should be freedom of choice. I am not saying that it should or should not be legal; it should be freedom of choice. Who is the government or anyone for that matter to tell a person what to do or not to do with his or her own body?

It seems that by saying it should be freedom of choice, that you are saying it should never be legal.

Isn't that what "it should be freedom of choice" means?

I still haven't seen anyone clearly say that they think abortion should be legal at any time.

To say it should not be other people's business, the woman should be the only one to decide, etc. is really avoiding the issue. If you think it should be legal at any time, then why not clearly say so? I think the reason is that people don't like to put it in those terms (abortion to be allowed at any time, for any reason). I think people that are strongly inclined towards the woman's choice are also very likely to also have limits to that choice.

I keep bringing this up because I think it is important to clearly define your position, and many will not readily admit that they have limits to their position. I think realizing this is important to coming to a reasonable compromise.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I believe that no matter what is should be freedom of choice. I am not saying that it should or should not be legal; it should be freedom of choice. Who is the government or anyone for that matter to tell a person what to do or not to do with his or her own body?

It seems that by saying it should be freedom of choice, that you are saying it should never be legal.

Isn't that what "it should be freedom of choice" means?

Yes, this also made my brain walk out of the room in confusion. You would not believe how hard it is to type right now without it.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Muenkel 0]

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Yes, this also made my brain walk out of the room in confusion. You would not believe how hard it is to type right now without it.

I could teach you. I've been doing it for 2 1/2 years now.

Chris

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Chris

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Yes, this also made my brain walk out of the room in confusion. You would not believe how hard it is to type right now without it.

I could teach you. I've been doing it for 2 1/2 years now.

Chris

I am a big fan of self-deprecating humor.

No wait, I mean Muenkel-deprecating.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Muenkel 0]

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Yes, this also made my brain walk out of the room in confusion. You would not believe how hard it is to type right now without it.

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I could teach you. I've been doing it for 2 1/2 years now.

Chris

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I am a big fan of self-deprecating humor.

No wait, I mean Muenkel-deprecating.

The sick thing is....so am I!

Chris

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Chris

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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Why do you assume that's the only option?

In countries/states where abortion is legal, a woman has three choices:
1) Have the baby
2) Get an abortion at a clinic
3) Do the old coathanger trick

When abortion is banned, that leaves two options:
1) Have the baby
2) Get an abortion at a clinic
3) Do the old coathanger trick

And when having the baby is not a viable option for some reason, that leaves one option:
1) Have the baby
2) Get an abortion at a clinic
3) Do the old coathanger trick

Banning legal abortions will increase the number of back-alley abortions. This, in my book, is bad.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Why do you assume that's the only option?

In countries/states where abortion is legal, a woman has three choices:
1) Have the baby
2) Get an abortion at a clinic
3) Do the old coathanger trick

When abortion is banned, that leaves two options:
1) Have the baby
2) Get an abortion at a clinic
3) Do the old coathanger trick

And when having the baby is not a viable option for some reason, that leaves one option:
1) Have the baby
2) Get an abortion at a clinic
3) Do the old coathanger trick

Banning legal abortions will increase the number of back-alley abortions. This, in my book, is bad.

I think in this case, it will cause women to go to another state for an abortion than to seek out a rusty coat hanger in her home state.

My objection to the OP and to you is the inference that back alley abortions were the ONLY option. I acknowledge this MAY cause more back alley abortions, but it's more likely these would be performed by a doctor who believes in reproductive rights, in a sterile setting. It could just as easily be said that banning abortion would cause more adoptions, a greater awareness of the benefits of birth control, and abstinence.

Please note, I have taken no position on the morality of abortion.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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I think in this case, it will cause women to go to another state for an abortion than to seek out a rusty coat hanger in her home state.

I hope that's the case. Of course, is the people who banned abortion in South Dakota had their way, abortions would be banned in the whole country.

What's the maximum distance that anyone needs to travel to get a legal abortion in the US? Are there other states besides SD where abortion is illegal?

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My objection to the OP and to you is the inference that back alley abortions were the ONLY option. I acknowledge this MAY cause more back alley abortions, but it's more likely these would be performed by a doctor who believes in reproductive rights, in a sterile setting.

By a doctor willing to break to law, that is. I wonder how many pro-choice doctors in SD will continue to perform abortions? Even if they do, will they take the risk of doing it at their office/clinic, or will they do them in motel rooms while trying to do "the best they can" with regard to sterility?

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It could just as easily be said that banning abortion would cause more adoptions, a greater awareness of the benefits of birth control, and abstinence.

More adoptions? I don't know, is there a shortage of babies to be adopted in SD? If there isn't, the abortion ban will just increase the number of children in orphanages. I guess many people will consider this a good thing, as opposed to killing unborn babies.

Awareness of the benefits of birth control and abstinence... maybe. But the attitudes that ban abortions tend to co-incide with the attitudes that also think that pre-marital sex and contraceptives are a bad thing. I wouldn't want to see those attitudes gaining any more foothold.

[Amazon 7]

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More adoptions? I don't know, is there a shortage of babies to be adopted in SD? If there isn't, the abortion ban will just increase the number of children in orphanages. I guess many people will consider this a good thing, as opposed to killing unborn babies.

I have to admit.. I am very surprised that more people here have not brought up the adoption issue.

One of the things that REALLLY gets my hackles up is when I hear someone bemoaning the lack of adoptible WHITE babies. I get the feeling for quite a few people this is a HUGE issue for them and why they abhor the current amount of abortions in this country.

[sundevil777 102]

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One of the things that REALLLY gets my hackles up is when I hear someone bemoaning the lack of adoptible WHITE babies. I get the feeling for quite a few people this is a HUGE issue for them and why they abhor the current amount of abortions in this country.

I think it is lousy to assign motives for peoples objection to abortion in this way.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[stevebabin 0]

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And I apologize if I sound too harsh, I did grow up with a father who got arrested for protesting abortion He had the courage to stand up for what he believed, even if that meant getting thrown in jail. Like him, I am not afraid to back down on my position about this, not matter the disagreements that will be thrown at me

Can you elaborate on this for me? The last time I checked, it wasn't illegal to protest abortion. There are, of course limits as to how people protest, but no one was ever jailed under a charge of simply protesting abortion. What was he charged with?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Nightingale 0]

I don't think it's so far off...

I've actually heard someone going through IVF say "if people would stop aborting babies, I wouldn't be doing this." (implying that if there were more adoptible babies, she would adopt rather than do IVF)