wmw999 2,500 #126 February 24, 2006 QuoteNo, they would rather our girls and boys had morals and practiced responsibility and didn't have sex until they were ready to except the responsibility of their actions.And I'd rather that drivers drove safely enough and practiced responsibility enough that we didn't have to put seat belts and air bags into cars, or outlaw drinking and driving. I wish skydivers were responsible enough not to require AADs. Shit happens. It happens more often to the careless. But the "punish the parents for being stupid" reason is not one of the worst reasons to bring a child into the world. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #127 February 24, 2006 QuoteQuote This is so wrong would they rather have our girls doing back alley abortions again. No, they would rather our girls and boys had morals and practiced responsibility and didn't have sex until they were ready to except the responsibility of their actions. uh oh...now you're gonna get it...you said the "r" word!"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #128 February 24, 2006 Ya know, you are totally right! It makes so much more sense to kill a fetus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beckz70018 0 #129 February 24, 2006 The cases aren't always the stupid people who don't practice safe sex, or no sex at all though. There are the other cases, as were mentioned before, of rape by a stranger, or by someone in your own family. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #130 February 24, 2006 QuoteQuote This is so wrong would they rather have our girls doing back alley abortions again. No, they would rather our girls and boys had morals and practiced responsibility and didn't have sex until they were ready to except the responsibility of their actions. Maybe so. But that is NOT what this law is about. The sole pupose of the law is to instigate Supreme Court action. And even if it wasn't, I HIGHLY doubt that the reason our young boys and girls have sex is because they know if they fuck up, they can get an abortion. Somehow, I doubt this thought even goes through their minds as they make out in the back seat of dad's car. Making something illegal does not inspire responsibility. Teaching them does.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #131 February 24, 2006 Oh yes, the "What if they were raped" argument. Again, killing the baby is clearly the logical answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beckz70018 0 #132 February 24, 2006 I'm sorry, but obviously there's something fucked up about the person who raped the woman to begin with. And as I said before, that kind of stuff is passed down. Sorry, I wouldn't want to have some fucked up kid, who in the future might kill or rape people. Some types of people are not meant to have children, those people include rapist, and serial killers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #133 February 24, 2006 Quote I keep bringing this up because I think it is important to clearly define your position, and many will not readily admit that they have limits to their position. I think realizing this is important to coming to a reasonable compromise. That gets at my position, which is that I *can't* clearly define it. Somewhere between being an unfertilized egg and being a post-delivery infant, a human comes into being. I can't tell you when exactly that is. Nor can you tell me. People are just going to differ in their opinions on when that occurs. Because none of us know for sure, I don't feel we have the right to impose what we believe on other people who may believe differently. This is why I'm opposed to banning abortions, because I can't tell you when to ban them. Even if I could firm up a belief for myself, I don't see where I have the right to make you believe the same thing, and I don't think "reasonable compromise" is a valid option where beliefs are concerned. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,092 #134 February 24, 2006 QuoteOh yes, the "What if they were raped" argument. Again, killing the baby is clearly the logical answer. What's your answer to pregancy by rape? Make sure your answer does not in any way further infringe on the right of the woman to live her life as she sees fit.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #135 February 24, 2006 QuoteI'm sorry, but obviously there's something fucked up about the person who raped the woman to begin with. And as I said before, that kind of stuff is passed down. Sorry, I wouldn't want to have some fucked up kid, who in the future might kill or rape people. Some types of people are not meant to have children, those people include rapist, and serial killers. Clearly you hold the position that it should be the choice of the mother no matter what. The circumstances you describe are the ones those for which sympathy is easy. Defending the decisions not involving such 'mitigating circumstances' is not so easy. I think that a logical extension of your argument is that rapists and murderers, etc. are not responsible for their actions. Therefore the proper role of the justice system is to protect the public from them, but they should not be punished for actions beyond their control.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,092 #136 February 24, 2006 QuoteQuote I keep bringing this up because I think it is important to clearly define your position, and many will not readily admit that they have limits to their position. I think realizing this is important to coming to a reasonable compromise. That gets at my position, which is that I *can't* clearly define it. Somewhere between being an unfertilized egg and being a post-delivery infant, a human comes into being. Blues, Dave The word "delivery" says it all. Until the woman delivers it, it is hers and not society's. The responsibilty is hers, the choice is hers and hers alone. The rest of us should butt out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #137 February 24, 2006 QuoteQuoteOh yes, the "What if they were raped" argument. Again, killing the baby is clearly the logical answer. What's your answer to pregancy by rape? Make sure your answer does not in any way further infringe on the right of the woman to live her life as she sees fit. I would allow abortion up to a certain point in time (about the same as Billvon describes). After that, I think the human right to live outweighs the right of the woman to choose to not be a mother. It is a simple human rights position. Some avoid it by contending it is not a life until the moment of birth.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #138 February 24, 2006 QuoteI'm sorry, but obviously there's something fucked up about the person who raped the woman to begin with. And as I said before, that kind of stuff is passed down. How do you know? Are people not free to make their own choices? If my parents beat me, does that mean I am going to beat my kids? NO! I have my own free will--how can you say rapists pass that sort of thing down to their kids? QuoteSorry, I wouldn't want to have some fucked up kid, who in the future might kill or rape people. If someone is born as a result of rape, they are going to become rapists themselves? Or wait a sec, should they just be killed so they can't procreate and produce more rapists? QuoteSome types of people are not meant to have children, those people include rapist, and serial killers. Furthermore, who are you to say people can't change? I know of men who used to rob banks--do they still do it now? No! I am sure there are men who have raped women--are they not capable of change? Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #139 February 24, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote I keep bringing this up because I think it is important to clearly define your position, and many will not readily admit that they have limits to their position. I think realizing this is important to coming to a reasonable compromise. That gets at my position, which is that I *can't* clearly define it. Somewhere between being an unfertilized egg and being a post-delivery infant, a human comes into being. Blues, Dave The word "delivery" says it all. Until the woman delivers it, it is hers and not society's. The responsibilty is hers, the choice is hers and hers alone. The rest of us should butt out. By my count that is just 3 that hold the 'choice of the mother at any time for any reason' position.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #140 February 24, 2006 QuoteOh yes, the "What if they were raped" argument. Again, killing the baby is clearly the logical answer. What's really scary is that a rape victim who has the child of her rapist can end up in a custody battle with the rapist over rights to the child. Yes. It does happen, especially if the rapist has gotten out of jail and claims to be "reformed". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #141 February 24, 2006 I keep hearing arguments, but nothing that outweighs the killing of the unborn baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #142 February 24, 2006 What would you tell your twelve year old daughter who's just been raped and found out she's pregnant? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #143 February 24, 2006 QuoteThe cases aren't always the stupid people who don't practice safe sex, or no sex at all though. There are the other cases, as were mentioned before, of rape by a stranger, or by someone in your own family. And how many abortions took place last year, due to rape and incest? I bet the numbers are fairly low compared to abortions performed simply out of not wanting to care for a child. Why would you want for abortion to be legal in all cases? Why not just make abortion legal for incest and rape only? ( this isn't necessarily my opinion, btw, just asking) If the majority of abortions happening are due to reasons other than rape, incest, etc, what can we learn about this? What would it take to show people that becoming "accidently pregnant" is no cause for using abortion as a means of birth control? Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #144 February 24, 2006 QuoteNo! I am sure there are men who have raped women--are they not capable of change? Its been proven over and over and over.. SEXUAL PREDATORS.. do not WANT to change... How would you have felt... for instance if your father who you brought up before as being loving but has been arrested for protesting.. What if he had been FAR more "loving" than he should have when you were 12 or 13....it happens far more often than most families will admit... would you really want to carry that child??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #145 February 24, 2006 Because making abortion legal for rape and incest only reqires making a report of the rape or incest, and encourages people to file false reports to obtain abortions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #146 February 24, 2006 QuoteMaking something illegal does not inspire responsibility. Teaching them does. Sadly this is not the case with some people. My dad’s second or third wife had two daughters who used abortion as their primary means of birth control from their teenage years on into their twenties. Each had at least three abortions apparently because taking a pill was too much of an inconvenience for them, the eldest had at least one late term abortion to her credit. I couldn’t even bring myself to look at them they were so pathetically irresponsible. I have no doubt there are plenty of others out there who cannot be “taught” to behave responsibly. Witness the posters here who have admitted smoking during pregnancy. If these people are not able to make intelligent decisions and conform their behavior then perhaps the authorities will make the decisions and enforce responsible behavior going forward. So much for my Libertarian inclinations … Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #147 February 24, 2006 Don't really know. Not going to speculate. But killing the baby would not be one of the answers I would give her. Not arguing these extreme cases would not be difficult to cope with, but no matter how extreme of a case you can come up with, I will never say that abortion is an answer to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beckz70018 0 #148 February 24, 2006 You can't avoid the fact that alot of things are passed down from parent to child. My step-mother is manic depressive, she self medicated with drinking, she's been sober for 16 years. She had my two brothers. My 19 year old brother is manic depressive, and self medicates with heroin. No one's sure if my other brother is manic depressive, but theres a possibility. She's a good mother. But being a good parent doesn't keep from the fact that you pass things to your children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #149 February 24, 2006 QuoteBecause making abortion legal for rape and incest only reqires making a report of the rape or incest, and encourages people to file false reports to obtain abortions. It would still result in less abortions taking place. Kind of like its illegal to steal in the South Bronx. people do it anyway. The stores still have to have bars on the windows to avoid break in and entry. However, if steeling was legal, we can safely say it would take place more often and vice versa. ,If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #150 February 24, 2006 Not all criminals are psychopaths, but to the best of my knowledge psychopaths are born not made and they cannot be reformed. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
