Ladies, how do you feel about this?

[L.O. 0]

It is the law of nature, that says imperfect children will not survive, or at least not for long. Only through our superior tech. have we been able to subvert the natural process. Abortion in the case of severe defect just makes life easier, for everyone. Abortion is a right at the moment. If this right is taken away we will return to coat hangers and rogue doctors. We will always have Mexico, you know it wont be outlawed there. This is just another right that will be taken from us by a president and mass political body who are controlled by a unrealistic idea of what the people want. If you don't want a baby you should not have one, if your baby is going to disable you because of the radical care it needs, you shouldn't have it. There are a lot of reasons to have the choice

try to tell a person who could have gone on to college and become a productive member of society, that being another below poverty line single parent is the correct thing to do. Try to tell there child the same as they grow up unable to live anywhere but the slums. To not have legal abortion dooms so many, to a horrible life, they might as well be in hell.

Lets take more rights away from the people. Abortion is one, how about the vote. We have much more qualified people who should be taking care of that. Start here and soon the body politic will find some reason to siop jumping from perfectly good airplanes.

Give me a break, LET FREEDOM RING.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[RhondaLea 4]

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Later... she becomes a drain on social services... the ones compassionate conservatives LOVE to cut funding for.. so they end up on the streets like so many THOUSANDS of otherswho have been forced out of closed government facilities.

We recently did a trust for an elderly woman whose 61 year old daughter lives in a nursing home for...for lack of a better word, I will say "defective" adults.

My ex-boyfriend worked there for a time, so I spent some time there. It's a good facility. It's not the fate I would want for a child of mine.

Why would anyone want to bring a mentally retarded child into the world if there is a way to avoid doing?

As for rape/incest, it's very easy to say that a woman should literally risk her life to bear a child she neither asked for nor wanted, but I wouldn't want anyone making that choice for me. Pregnancy and childbirth have a higher fatality rate than skydiving. Abortion has a much lower fatality rate for the mother.

It is one thing to say a mother can risk her life for her child, it's quite another to say she must.

Having a baby is fraught with peril for the entire 9 months, and to compel a woman to endure a pregnancy she does not want seems to me to be insane.

I have never had an abortion, but there are certain situations in which I know I would--without a doubt or qualm. I do not want anyone to interfere with my choice, so my answer is that I will not interfere with theirs.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Amazon 7]

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try to tell a person who could have gone on to college and become a productive member of society, that being another below poverty line parent is the correct thing to do. Try to tell there child the same as they grow up unable to live in anywhere but the slums. To not have legal abortion dooms so many, to a horrible life, they might as well be in hell.

Hey isnt that the point.. the wages of sin and such.. if you play.. you have to pay...most of the people wanting abortions are sinners.. sinners need to be punished.

[wmw999 2,485]

I got something interesting in the mail yesterday. While a number of drugstores will allow pharmacists to refuse to provide morning-after pills, or even contraceptives, or contraceptives to unmarried women, there are none which refuse Viagra.

I guess that men only do it when they're married.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[L.O. 0]

Maybe you should turn off the 700 club and take some time to look at the real life consequence of the abolishment of abortion..

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[wmw999 2,485]

Amazon, I think you forgot your sarcasm emoticon again

LO -- Amazon was being sarcastic. I'm usually not one to put the words into the mouth of someone who can kick my ass with one hand tied behind her red-headed back , but, well, I think it's a safe statement that she doesn't really think that the wages of sin should be death.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

Thank you Wendy


DAYUM.. where the hell is the sarcasm emoticon...




and L.O. I have had plenty of experience with this issue...

My Position.. I think we need to have choice.. period....

I think that even more access to birth control and better healthcare to women who can not afford it would negate MUCH of the need for abortions.

I would love to see it not be needed at all.

Churches need to get the fuck out of womens reproductive systems.

If these kinds of laws pass where esentially the patriarchy is forcing women to bear thier children for them.. then EVERY woman needs to carry a little book around and notate a date and time when ANY sex occured and with proof from the male's identity who is participating so he can be part of the cost of raising the child with NO exceptions.

You wanna play.. you gonna PAY.

Hope that explains it a bit for all of you who wanna have fun without the consequences.

[sundevil777 102]

Of course everyone can say they wish abortion to be less common.

Patriarchy, churches, who should be responsible to pay for the raising of a child, all have nothing to do with what matters - When during the pregnancy should it be considered a life with its own rights, when is it murder?

When do you think it is murder?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

I would go with viability...can the child exist on its own.

[Girlfalldown 0]

Say a young girl, 14 or so, living in a dysfunctional family, gets pregnant. The parents are already poor, maybe abusive, maybe drug addicts, heck maybe she is too. I think it would be totally fucked up to force that 14 year old BABY to have a baby of her own. She's not even physically ready to have it let alone mentally. That baby would be thrown into a totally fucked up environment and would have little to no chance of having a happy life. I don't know about you guys but I'd say that baby is better off not being born right now. Not only that but there are certain things that are hereditary. Alcoholism, addictions, etc. That child could be born addicted to crack. What kind of a life is that going to be for the child? You think it's better for a baby to be born premature, fighting life in a tube? Even if the baby is healthy they still have the rest of it to deal with. Why would you force someone to have that child?

You could say that they could give that child up for adoption but I guarantee that the majority of those situation will not end in adoption. The young girl finally has something to love and thinks her life will change because of it but she's got no clue what she's in for.

It also depends on what you believe. Some religions believe in reincarnation. That soul could have the chance to be born into a good family. Personally I am not a Christian. I don't believe in heaven and hell. I guess Buddhism is more along the lines of what I believe.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that it all comes down to religion and what your own heart tells you. The government has no right to tell us what to believe.

Abortion should not be a form of birth control in my opinion but there are cases where I think that it can save someone's life. I believe it is my right to choose, not yours, not theirs. This law is a step backwards and it makes me cringe.

[rehmwa 2]

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What will she do when her parents are too old to care for her?

Obviously a good reason to kill someone

[sundevil777 102]

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I would go with viability...can the child exist on its own.

That is a position much more reasonable than that taken by many abortion rights groups. They are too afraid of the 'slippery slope'.

Unfortunately, that point will be hard to define, and will need to be constantly updated.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rehmwa 2]

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They are too afraid of the 'slippery slope'.

the slippery slope defense is a big piece of crap

abused by both sides of about every issue

it's just an oversimplification to justify too extreme a position - in whatever direction - in a status quo

brought to you by the 'a lot of change is bad - therefore so is a little change' crowd of the extreme left and right

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jojo69 0]

As I read this thread I realize that there is no one who admits to having an abortion. I was a teenager when abortion became legal. I and many of my friends were happy that this was an option. I admit that I have had an abortion and am grateful to those who fought for my right to do so. I have friends that drank laundry blueing to induce abortions. In the 60s and 70s there were no choices and women still go abortions. It was very dangerous and sometimes fatal. The fact that it was against the law did not stop them. It just made it more dangerous for all involved.

People do not have to agree with my decisions or the decisions of others who have had to face this choice. They do not have to have an abortion. I recognize their right to their choice. They should recognize my right to mine.

[sundevil777 102]

When do you think it should be considered murder?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[wmw999 2,485]

Gross failure of birth control. Chickenshit to leave you out there alone.

And to answer SunDevil777 -- I'm not sure murder is ever the right charge. Criminal something after a point, yes. But murder? Maybe murder comes when the government recognizes personhood: a social security number, deduction on the income tax.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[warpedskydiver 0]

the mere fact they passed this law shows that the vast amount of that states constituents are sitting around with their collective thumbs up their asses!!!

see what happens when you sit silently waiting for someone else to do what is right?

[warpedskydiver 0]

in John's defense I can assure you he is all for himself being euthanised when he is no longer a contributing member of society.

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[Girlfalldown 0]

Another thought here.

It's legal for our soldiers to go kill people in other countries because the govornment says it is but we aren't allowed to choose to have an abortion. Doesn't that seem skewed?

edited: Changed murder to kill. Sorry bout that.

--------------

(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Say a young girl, 14 or so, living in a dysfunctional family, gets pregnant. The parents are already poor, maybe abusive, maybe drug addicts, heck maybe she is too. I think it would be totally fucked up to force that 14 year old BABY to have a baby of her own. She's not even physically ready to have it let alone mentally. That baby would be thrown into a totally fucked up environment and would have little to no chance of having a happy life. I don't know about you guys but I'd say that baby is better off not being born right now. Not only that but there are certain things that are hereditary. Alcoholism, addictions, etc. That child could be born addicted to crack. What kind of a life is that going to be for the child? You think it's better for a baby to be born premature, fighting life in a tube? Even if the baby is healthy they still have the rest of it to deal with. Why would you force someone to have that child?

You could say that they could give that child up for adoption but I guarantee that the majority of those situation will not end in adoption. The young girl finally has something to love and thinks her life will change because of it but she's got no clue what she's in for.

It also depends on what you believe. Some religions believe in reincarnation. That soul could have the chance to be born into a good family. Personally I am not a Christian. I don't believe in heaven and hell. I guess Buddhism is more along the lines of what I believe.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that it all comes down to religion and what your own heart tells you. The government has no right to tell us what to believe.

Abortion should not be a form of birth control in my opinion but there are cases where I think that it can save someone's life. I believe it is my right to choose, not yours, not theirs. This law is a step backwards and it makes me cringe.

you just described many poor inner city black women's situation, yet they choose to have the child instead of actually thinking...the difference in this line of beliefs is much akin to the fact that they suffer awfully from many ailments which require organ transplants but yet will not be an organ donor

I hear these storied from the people who have to deal with these issues everyday and the most common cop out is "it's not part of our faith or religion to donate organs we need to be buried whole"

strange that I didn't realize that it is against the CHRISTIAN FAITH TO DONATE ORGANS!!!

but yet it's ok to receive them

same thing as abortion if you are for the freedom of choice ( which I beliEve is assured by our constitution )

but yet those same people would be against euthanasia and want everything done to sustain life no matter what!!!

HIPPOCRATES SHOULD BE FORCED TO ACCEPT THE SAME FATE AS THEY WISH ON OTHERS!

[warpedskydiver 0]

EXCUSE ME?

murder is a courtmartial offense!!!

please consider your thoughts before you spit that shit out!

soldiers do not murder! that is an illegal action that can be punished by death... please educate yourself!!!

[Girlfalldown 0]

I see your point and I changed the wording but it's all still killing right?

--------------

(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[warpedskydiver 0]

yes killing and murder have two very different meanings
Thank you!

[sundevil777 102]

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And to answer SunDevil777 -- I'm not sure murder is ever the right charge. Criminal something after a point, yes. But murder? Maybe murder comes when the government recognizes personhood: a social security number, deduction on the income tax.

It is murder if it is killed one second after birth. I think it is murder for quite a while before birth.

Some others might disagree, and think that it should be the choice of the woman at any time before birth. I haven't seen anyone explicitly advocate this position yet.

You have mentioned before that the point of quickening (kicking) seems reasonable to you. I would draw the line slightly before this, but either way is a long time before birth, and a long time before the third trimester.

To Girlfalldown:

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It's legal for our soldiers to go Kill people in other countries because the govornment says it is but we aren't allowed to choose to have an abortion. Doesn't that seem skewed?

Governments certainly do claim the right to kill during wartime. I don't see how this is a useful comparison. Are you saying that abortion should be compared to declaring war?

When do you think it should be illegal (I'll stop asking when it should be considered murder, as this can be an inflammatory way of asking the question).

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[skysquiffy 0]

I think it may have an unintended positive effect. Unfortunately, the anti-choice crowd are extremely vocal, to say the least. Woman currently have the law on their side, so we don't have to fight for something that already exists. Maybe state bills like this will motivate an equally aggressive campaign to speak up and fight for personal choice.