Does it matter what my opinion is? 
I don't know everything, nor do I know God's thoughts.
The Bible does say "thou shall not commit murder." Just because someone can do something wrong, doesn't mean they should. Rebecca, you are also talking to someone who believes there will be former murderers, thieves, etc in heaven.
Just because we have God's grace, doesn't mean we should go on sinning.
I am ending this with that, because there are a lot of deeper, theological issues that come into play, that I am not qualified to answer. ( Sorry
) I could go on about God and His creating of human beings, but I can only imagine the uproar my opinion could cause
.
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
I don't know everything, nor do I know God's thoughts.
The Bible does say "thou shall not commit murder." Just because someone can do something wrong, doesn't mean they should. Rebecca, you are also talking to someone who believes there will be former murderers, thieves, etc in heaven.
Just because we have God's grace, doesn't mean we should go on sinning.
I am ending this with that, because there are a lot of deeper, theological issues that come into play, that I am not qualified to answer. ( Sorry
) I could go on about God and His creating of human beings, but I can only imagine the uproar my opinion could cause.Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
Quotehe Bible does say "thou shall not commit murder."
murder = unlawful killing
So this would only apply where abortion is illegal.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
kallend 2,070
QuoteNO, I don't think they do. These are the same schools that want to teach kids evolution, the same schools that brainwash kids
. I think parents should be well informed enough to teach their kids about sex. ( flame away!)
I don't want my kids to be surrounded and taught from a purely biased point of view.
It's E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N, the business of schools.
B-I-A-S is teaching as truth those things which are solely based on faith, like religion.
Remember Galileo?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteIt's E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N, the business of schools.
Whose choice is it to decide what is deemed to be educated in schools? By this way of thinking then EVERYTHING should be taught in schools, like morals (those are taught) standards (those are taught) how to brush ones teeth, ride a bike, learn to swim, and learn how to respect our neighbors and many more things. YET how many of those are taught in a school? Education on the matter of sex as it pertains to other people is often a MORAL issue, and many people have their own STANDARDS in which they want their kid exposed to screwing around before marriage.
EVOLUTION is a theory, it is not a fact.... the BIG BANG is a theory and not a fact, and as far as Galileo is concerned he was WRONG about elliptical orbits of planets, he was WRONG about Tides, he was WRONG about many things and made MANY "theories" based on his own opinions and not based on scientific experimentation. Galileo had faith that he was right, his faith was wrong.
Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this
billvon 3,032
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Whose choice is it to decide what is deemed to be educated in
>schools?
Primarily colleges, since they are the 'consumer' of what is taught in high schools. In other words, the stuff on their admissions tests should be covered by earlier schooling. Other sources include local school boards, organizations like the American Association of Physics Teachers, National Science Teachers Association, and the National Education Association.
>By this way of thinking then EVERYTHING should be taught in schools . . ..
You can't teach everything.
>like morals (those are taught) . . . .
Some, yes. You must teach students that it is not acceptable to yell "fuck you!" at the teacher for example, and it is not acceptable to beat up other kids. (This _should_ be taught at home, of course, but if not, the school has to deal with it.) But 'higher morals' (like who to marry, how to vote etc) should be covered at home.
>Education on the matter of sex as it pertains to other people is often a MORAL issue . . .
Yes, and schools should not teach "it is wrong (or it is right) to have sex with people." They should teach the basics of what actually happens, and what condoms and other birth control does, and how OB-GYN's are the specialists in that. (That may be what you're saying, too.)
>EVOLUTION is a theory, it is not a fact....
So is gravity. It is taught because it is in fact how our world works. In other words, it is science. The Pythagorean Theorem is taught as well, because it is math.
>schools?
Primarily colleges, since they are the 'consumer' of what is taught in high schools. In other words, the stuff on their admissions tests should be covered by earlier schooling. Other sources include local school boards, organizations like the American Association of Physics Teachers, National Science Teachers Association, and the National Education Association.
>By this way of thinking then EVERYTHING should be taught in schools . . ..
You can't teach everything.
>like morals (those are taught) . . . .
Some, yes. You must teach students that it is not acceptable to yell "fuck you!" at the teacher for example, and it is not acceptable to beat up other kids. (This _should_ be taught at home, of course, but if not, the school has to deal with it.) But 'higher morals' (like who to marry, how to vote etc) should be covered at home.
>Education on the matter of sex as it pertains to other people is often a MORAL issue . . .
Yes, and schools should not teach "it is wrong (or it is right) to have sex with people." They should teach the basics of what actually happens, and what condoms and other birth control does, and how OB-GYN's are the specialists in that. (That may be what you're saying, too.)
>EVOLUTION is a theory, it is not a fact....
So is gravity. It is taught because it is in fact how our world works. In other words, it is science. The Pythagorean Theorem is taught as well, because it is math.
QuoteYou must teach students that it is not acceptable to yell "fuck you!" at the teacher for example
Am I naughty for completely laughing aloud at this?
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
Lindsey 0
QuoteQuoteYou must teach students that it is not acceptable to yell "fuck you!" at the teacher for example
Am I naughty for completely laughing aloud at this?
It's buried in there somewhere....
Peace~
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
Muenkel 0
Rebecca, I will answer your question from a Catholic point of view because that is my faith. I won't presume to answer it for any other faith.
1. The soul is present at the moment of conception.
2. All souls are of equal value in God's eyes.
3. An aborted baby is innocent as it has not reached the age of reason and is incapable of sin. Therefore, that soul goes directly to heaven.
4. Sending the soul of an aborted baby directly to heaven is not doing it a favor by giving it a free pass. That soul was created by God for a purpose. The mother is interfering with God's purpose.
5. The mother who has had an abortion has committed a grave sin. The culpability of that sin cannot be judged by any other human.
6. In the Catholic faith the mother's sin can be forgiven under the conditions defined by the Catechism in regard to Confession and Reparation.
I tried to answer your question succinctly and from the point of view of the Catholic Church for the reason I stated above. I understand I may have raised more questions for you. If so, ask away.
Chris
_________________________________________
Chris
1. The soul is present at the moment of conception.
2. All souls are of equal value in God's eyes.
3. An aborted baby is innocent as it has not reached the age of reason and is incapable of sin. Therefore, that soul goes directly to heaven.
4. Sending the soul of an aborted baby directly to heaven is not doing it a favor by giving it a free pass. That soul was created by God for a purpose. The mother is interfering with God's purpose.
5. The mother who has had an abortion has committed a grave sin. The culpability of that sin cannot be judged by any other human.
6. In the Catholic faith the mother's sin can be forgiven under the conditions defined by the Catechism in regard to Confession and Reparation.
I tried to answer your question succinctly and from the point of view of the Catholic Church for the reason I stated above. I understand I may have raised more questions for you. If so, ask away.
Chris
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Chris
Lindsey 0
In MY faith....
1. The soul is probably a function of the brain....which begins to function in some capacity at 20-28 weeks post-conception. But we really don't know.
2. All souls are of equal value in God's eyes.
3. An aborted fetus is innocent. If it has a soul and if there is a heaven, and if by chance the soul is something other than a function of the brain, then it probably goes to heaven....whatever that is.
4.????? That's just too far from MY faith.
5. The mother who has had an abortion has been through something terrible. She should not be judged by any other human. The people of the Faith support her and help her get back on her feet.
6. All sin can be forgiven
There are all kinds of faith. Why should our laws be based on groups's faith and not another's?
linz
1. The soul is probably a function of the brain....which begins to function in some capacity at 20-28 weeks post-conception. But we really don't know.
2. All souls are of equal value in God's eyes.
3. An aborted fetus is innocent. If it has a soul and if there is a heaven, and if by chance the soul is something other than a function of the brain, then it probably goes to heaven....whatever that is.
4.????? That's just too far from MY faith.
5. The mother who has had an abortion has been through something terrible. She should not be judged by any other human. The people of the Faith support her and help her get back on her feet.
6. All sin can be forgiven
There are all kinds of faith. Why should our laws be based on groups's faith and not another's?
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
Muenkel 0
QuoteThere are all kinds of faith. Why should our laws be based on groups's faith and not another's?
They shouldn't. Laws are written by legislators who are elected by their constituents. Each constituent has a vote and will cast it in a way that agrees with their ideology.
Chris
_________________________________________
Chris
not to nit-pick, but you should be talking about the "laws of gravity" not the theory of it.
but yes, i see your point bill.
i wonder why the theory of evolution is always singled out when discussing the issue of theory vs fact and how our schools do such a "disservice" to the students by teaching a theory (evolution) as fact...why not harp on how classical electromagnetism (theory) is still taught in some HS physics classes as fact? (hint, when the kid goes to college they'll learn about QED)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism
i digress...please continue, this is a good thread worthy of continued reading.
but yes, i see your point bill.
i wonder why the theory of evolution is always singled out when discussing the issue of theory vs fact and how our schools do such a "disservice" to the students by teaching a theory (evolution) as fact...why not harp on how classical electromagnetism (theory) is still taught in some HS physics classes as fact? (hint, when the kid goes to college they'll learn about QED)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism
i digress...please continue, this is a good thread worthy of continued reading.
Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell
Lindsey 0
Their religious doctrine should be kept OUT of our laws.... Because our varying faiths are at the core of much of what we do and who we are, it's impossible to live up to that standard completely. But we should be vigilant about maintaining a standard that keeps relgious doctrine separate from the laws of our country.
linz
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
Abortion isnt just a religous/ God issue, there are people who are pro-life without it being connected to the belief of a higher power.
Edit to add - Our country was founded with many laws that are there because of religion. One of the reasons to start the "public school system" was so all children would learn to read their bible. Parents were fined for the inability of their child to read it and therefore more parents made use of the "public schools"
Edit to add - Our country was founded with many laws that are there because of religion. One of the reasons to start the "public school system" was so all children would learn to read their bible. Parents were fined for the inability of their child to read it and therefore more parents made use of the "public schools"
Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this
Rebecca 0
Thank you for the response!
I guess the question I had is: what are you defending? And the answer seems to be: Ultimately not the mother, not the baby, but God's plan for us here on Earth.
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
I guess the question I had is: what are you defending? And the answer seems to be: Ultimately not the mother, not the baby, but God's plan for us here on Earth.
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
Muenkel 0
In some faiths, religious law supercedes civil law.
Chris
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Chris
Chris
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Chris
Lindsey 0
In some faiths, religious law supercedes civil law.
and in others it doesn't.
linz
and in others it doesn't.
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
No religion actively supports abortion, but some religions accept that there are situations when abortion may be necessary. A few religions oppose abortion under all circumstances.
Taken from
http://www.efc.org.uk/Foryoungpeople/Factsaboutabortion/Religion
Taken from
http://www.efc.org.uk/Foryoungpeople/Factsaboutabortion/Religion
Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this
Lindsey 0
I think that's fair to say.
linz
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
Amazon 7
QuoteA few religions oppose abortion under all circumstances.
A few religeons oppose killing ANYTHING...even the humblest of creatures.... so do not swat that skeeter next time it bites you... and no more stepping on ants.. even accidentally.
QuoteThese are the same schools that want to teach kids evolution, the same schools that brainwash kids
I've experienced two organizations which try to brainwash people. The first one was the army. They had me believing that I was this lean mean fighting machine and had there been a war for me to go fight in the early 80s, I would have gladly gone. And the second one was the church my parents forced me to attend as a child and teenager. I had no choice in the matter. I was forced to attend Church, to attend Sunday School and yes I was forced to go through that whole confirmation rig-a-ma-roll and publicly proclaim that Hey-Zus dude as my lord and savior (and at the time I believed in all of this even though I much would have rather spent my Saturdays and Sundays playing outside with friends). Why? Well I guess my mother and step-father felt that it was in my best interests that I be saved as all good christians are in their morals and the good book "The Burble". But as an adult I've choose to believe in science over some fictional book which was written by humans many many moons ago. The Burble tells us that the world was created in 7 days ... bla bla bla and christians claim that everything written in the Burble is the truth. But thanks to science we know that the world is billions of years old and that our planet is only a tiny speck in the universe (while the Burble tells people that we are the focal point of the universe). It was an easy decision to make as far as I'm concerned and I'm glad I no longer need to worry about listening to some preacher trying to brainwash me into believing something which goes against science.
I can't remember who said it, but one of you christians said why do we non-christians worry about what you christians are doing and whoever it was, they were right. So for the most part, recently I decided to stay away from posting in these sorts of threads. But I felt compelled to stand up on the soap box when you claimed that the educational professionals of the world are trying to brainwash the children with their science instruction. I'm sorry but from our vantage point, we're not the ones who are brainwashing the young and impressionable. I hope you honor what you said about letting you children decide for themselves how to live their lives (and the sooner you let them choose for themselves, the sooner it will be their decision and not your form of brainwashing). I know my mother is likely not happy that I'm not on the same page as her when it comes to believing in the Burble (and she's not even remotely as passionate about that ficticious book as some of you are). But at least she's let me be who I am. Someone who would rather follow the physical evidence of science as opposed to believing in a book which was written many many moons ago by people who controlled others through scare tactics.
One final question. You drive a car or at least you've been in a car right? The gasoline used to power these vehicles is refined from oil. Where do you think that oil came from? I'd be willing to bet that your answer is that God put it in the earth. But science has shown us that the oil came from the dinosaurs who roamed this planet millions and millions and millions of years ago (not the 6000 or so thousand years old the Burble claims the earth to be). If you don't believe me (which we know you don't), why don't you travel up to Drumheller Alberta. If you have the time on your summer vacation you too could be involved in an archeological dig where you discover real dinosaur fossils discovered in the rock. And with an open mind, a scientist who knows a thing or two about physics will be able to show you the different layers of rock and how carbon dating can be used to determine how old something is. But we know you'd rather spend your summer vacation in Burble Camp because you wouldn't want those evil scientists to brainwash you with their reasoning and logic behind physics.
I'm done ... I promise to stay away from these christian threads (at least for the near term future).
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
Muenkel 0
QuoteThank you for the response!
I guess the question I had is: what are you defending? And the answer seems to be: Ultimately not the mother, not the baby, but God's plan for us here on Earth.
Exactly, except I would probably say what I am defending is the soul of any human being starting at conception.
Chris
_________________________________________
Chris
Amazon 7
Chris.. do you have any idea how many embryos who are concieved.. are spontaneously miscarried... the numbers are staggering..human physiology is just not all that good at reproduction.
http://www.goivf.com/about_us/breakthroughs-pgd.php4
Even in optimal situations, like egg providers under age 30, the percentage of embryos that have normal chromosomes may only be approximately 50%. This may explain the frustration that patients and IVF specialists feel when apparently normal looking embryos are transferred with negative results or recurrent losses, sometimes even after multiple IVF attempts. Chromosomal abnormalities in embryos are therefore responsible for a significant proportion of failed implantations after hormonal, uterine and immunological factors have been excluded.
http://www.goivf.com/about_us/breakthroughs-pgd.php4
Even in optimal situations, like egg providers under age 30, the percentage of embryos that have normal chromosomes may only be approximately 50%. This may explain the frustration that patients and IVF specialists feel when apparently normal looking embryos are transferred with negative results or recurrent losses, sometimes even after multiple IVF attempts. Chromosomal abnormalities in embryos are therefore responsible for a significant proportion of failed implantations after hormonal, uterine and immunological factors have been excluded.
Wow, long post! I am going to reply real quickly and then go study for a test...if you want me to write more later I will, but just a warning so nobody gets mad
.
First off, I don't know how old the earth is...but the Bible says that a day with the Lord is like a thousand years. Perhaps God did not create the whole world in one day, as we know it ( 24 hours). ( I think He created the concept of time for us).
As far as evolution goes, you want to believe that some primordial ooze just spread across the earth and one day thought "I need some legs" then BAM! Here we are. I can see the hand of a Creator. The human body, let alone the World, is so complex that I refuse to see how it all happened by chance.
I did not say that all of the educational professionals of the world are brainwashing kids...I just think that evolution is a THEORY, not a fact.
I do not want my kids growing up, thinking they evolved from some lower life form or that they just happened by chance; they have no purpose for their life, no reason for existing, since they just happened to happen, right?
As far as dinosaurs go, I am sure they existed...perhaps even in the Garden of Eden. I really don't know when. I have also read that "carbon dating" is not as accurate as it is portrayed to be.
And oh, let's not forget that the story of Christ is illogical. A man being born from a virgin...raised from the dead...how illogical. ( I call it Supernatural
)
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
.
First off, I don't know how old the earth is...but the Bible says that a day with the Lord is like a thousand years. Perhaps God did not create the whole world in one day, as we know it ( 24 hours). ( I think He created the concept of time for us).
As far as evolution goes, you want to believe that some primordial ooze just spread across the earth and one day thought "I need some legs" then BAM! Here we are. I can see the hand of a Creator. The human body, let alone the World, is so complex that I refuse to see how it all happened by chance.
I did not say that all of the educational professionals of the world are brainwashing kids...I just think that evolution is a THEORY, not a fact.
I do not want my kids growing up, thinking they evolved from some lower life form or that they just happened by chance; they have no purpose for their life, no reason for existing, since they just happened to happen, right?
As far as dinosaurs go, I am sure they existed...perhaps even in the Garden of Eden. I really don't know when. I have also read that "carbon dating" is not as accurate as it is portrayed to be.
And oh, let's not forget that the story of Christ is illogical. A man being born from a virgin...raised from the dead...how illogical
. ( I call it Supernatural)Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
I know.
I know you know. Just making sure everyone else is caught up.