briguy 0 #1 February 27, 2006 No punchline here, just information: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4750320.stm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #2 February 28, 2006 QuoteNo punchline here, just information: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4750320.stm I think that the main difference is that Sunnis try to kill mainly Shia and try to minimize the number of other Sunnis killed in the blasts... ...while Shia try to kill mainly Sunnis and try to minimize the number of other Shia killed in the blasts. Hey, what the fuck did ya want? You posted this in Speakers Corner. - --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #3 February 28, 2006 QuoteI think that the main difference is that Sunnis try to kill mainly Shia and try to minimize the number of other Sunnis killed in the blasts... ...while Shia try to kill mainly Sunnis and try to minimize the number of other Shia killed in the blasts. Switch that to Catholic and Protestant, add in a few kneecappings and you've got Northern Ireland's history in a nutshell.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #4 February 28, 2006 QuoteSwitch that to Catholic and Protestant, add in a few kneecappings and you've got Northern Ireland's history in a nutshell. I'm glad this got said as early as Post #3. If this turns into yet another "let's bash Muslims" thread, I'm going to vomit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #5 February 28, 2006 I enjoy these threads. It helps make the ones who are ignorant apparent to all that read here. It is a time saver of sorts. You know who not to waist your time on in the future. The blind are blind because they choose to keep there eyes closed or even sadder they are incapable of opening their eyes.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #6 February 28, 2006 QuoteI enjoy these threads. It helps make the ones who are ignorant apparent to all that read here. It is a time saver of sorts. You know who not to waist your time on in the future. The blind are blind because they choose to keep there eyes closed or even sadder they are incapable of opening their eyes. help open our eyes please, if you have some insight, pass it on.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #7 February 28, 2006 Once again, it's proof that the REAL WAR (which is unfortunately the one we're NOT fighting) isn't between Shia & Sunni, Muslim & Christian, Jew & Arab, Protestant & Catholic, etc... etc... The real war is between the moderate, peaceable (& unfortunately largely silent) majority, and the extremists who advocate & use conflict, hatred & destruction in order to gain power & privelege. Consider, for example, the Cold-War. Who REALLY won that? Was it the govenrments of "The West"? Or was it simply "The People"? Did we defeat "Communism" (in reality autocratic centrally planned government & economy) with bombs & guns, or was it that the common populace of the Communist Countries rejected autocracy & central planning in favour of a freedom of personal choice & peaceful co-existence instead of conflict? In short, wasn't it really about Personal-Choice. Personal-Power. Personal-freedom? Who won the Cold War? The Individual! Sadly, it appears that "The Individual" is losing what's now being called The Long War. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #8 February 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteSwitch that to Catholic and Protestant, add in a few kneecappings and you've got Northern Ireland's history in a nutshell. I'm glad this got said as early as Post #3. If this turns into yet another "let's bash Muslims" thread, I'm going to vomit. Did I ever excuse the religious groups in Ireland for doing it? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #9 February 28, 2006 Wasn't directed at you, Jeff. Was directed at the thread in general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #10 February 28, 2006 This might help...http://lexicorient.com/e.o/sunni.htm and http://lexicorient.com/e.o/shii.htmL.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #11 March 2, 2006 Thought this was interesting. Mutaa Quote''Mutaa," a 1,400-year-old tradition alternately known as pleasure marriage and temporary marriage, is regaining popularity among Iraq's majority Shi'ite Muslim population after decades of being outlawed by the Sunni regime of Saddam Hussein. According to Shi'ite religious law, unmarried women may enter into pleasure marriages with men (married or not) for periods as brief as a few minutes or as long as a lifetime. Dowries, too, range from virtually nothing to millions of Iraqi dinars. Concubines, mistresses, whatever you want to call it. QuoteShi'ite clerics, including Iraq's highest religious authority, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, have sanctioned mutaa despite the social stigma attached to the marriages. QuoteThe divorcee, a resident of this Shi'ite-dominated southern city who asked that her name not be used for fear of being stigmatized, said she had few options after her husband left her in 1991 without financial support. She found her mutaa spouse shortly after the divorce, she said, and they have been together since. ''He lives with his own family, so he would come to me for visits only. And he takes care of my children's expenses without his family's knowledge," she said. ''This mutaa marriage is something between me and him. Only God knows of it." A secret marriage that no one else knows about and it mainly involves cash. Uh huh. QuoteShi'ite and Sunni sects disagree on the lawfulness of mutaa. Shi'ite clerics generally consider it to be in accordance with Islamic law, whereas many Sunni authorities regard it as a sexual relationship outside religious behavior. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #12 March 2, 2006 There's not much hope in that article. QuoteThough Ali eventually became the fourth caliph, his legitimacy was disputed and he was murdered in 661. QuoteAli's sons Hassan and Hussein continued to oppose Muawiya and his successor, Yazid, and fighting between the two sides resulted. Hassan was poisoned in 669 and Hussein was killed in battle near Karbala in 680. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #13 March 2, 2006 QuoteI'm glad this got said as early as Post #3. If this turns into yet another "let's bash Muslims" thread, I'm going to vomit. Amazing how so many people in this world can't see past such stupid shit as Shi'a vs Sunni, Protestant vs Catholic, N Korean vs S Korean, etc. People really need to stop seeing themselves as a religious or ethnic group and just as Iraqis, Americans, British, etc. Oh well, there's still going to be a fucking out of control civil war in Iraq b/c of these assholes who can't comprehend 1. Iraqi, then 2. Sunni/Shi'a. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #14 March 2, 2006 QuoteOh well, there's still going to be a fucking out of control civil war in Iraq b/c of these assholes who can't comprehend 1. Iraqi, then 2. Sunni/Shi'a. It's going to get bigger than that. Not just 2 parts. Sunni, Shi'a. There is the Kurds. Iraq will probably go into 3 parts. (This goes back to the old Isaac Asimov Foundation series books. Theory on factional states and central govt. Always loved those books.) The two Sunni and Shi'a factions will fight long enough to weaken the central government. Then, the Kurds will kick into gear and split off from the government while it lacks the resources to put down the revolt. An additional party is the Turks. The Turks have a Kurdish group that has caused them a bit of grief. They'd love to come visit and get some payback. The future looks exciting, but not in a good way. Maybe 3 parts would be peaceful for a few years (at least until they got enough oil money to launch an offensive). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #15 March 2, 2006 QuoteAn additional party is the Turks. The Turks have a Kurdish group that has caused them a bit of grief. The smart play for the Turks would be to let part of Turkey go when KURDISTAN forms. The TurkishKurds could merge with the Kurds in Iraq and the Iranian Kurds in a small section of western Iran. Then they would have a stable country on their southern/Eastern border.... but they have oppressed and murdered their own Kurds fo so long that they will never allow that to happen. Eventually the artificial borders that the west foisted on that region are going to be realigned.. it will just take a lot of bloodshed to get there. Until the people get tired of killing each other.. its just going to get worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #16 March 2, 2006 Yeah, I meant to say the Kurd part, but then totally spaced it. I agree w/ the whole weaking central govt and then breaking off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #17 March 2, 2006 QuoteEventually the artificial borders that the west foisted on that region are going to be realigned.. it will just take a lot of bloodshed to get there. Until the people get tired of killing each other.. its just going to get worse. Even though the West/Europeans/USSR acts as an enabler by selling arms and providing cash, ultimately it is the locals. Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt. Everybody has taken a whack at everyone else at some point. And, of course, the internal excitement and assassinations. There is a tendency to blame everything on the west. I don't buy into it. These govts use the west as a convenient mechanism to unify the populace. They've been killing each other since the Hebrews drove into Canaan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #18 March 2, 2006 QuoteThere is a tendency to blame everything on the west. In the case of the borders of the current countries.. its a REALLLY good tendancy. After the Ottoman Empire was dissolved by the Allies at the end of WW 1 they are the ones who drew the current borders Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #19 March 2, 2006 Right. Someone else drew the borders. That is a really poor excuse to kill each other for (literally) the next 100 years. They've had time to work it out. So is, "Mom...he hit me first". Events that happened 1200 years ago do not apply anymore. I don't care if 800 years ago, somebody lived somewhere. They moved or they lost, get over it. People use that crap as an excuse to justify their current actions. Egypt once invaded Israel. Israel occupied Lebanon. Then Syria did, until recently. Iraq attacked Iran, then Kuwait. In the 80s, Egyptian President Sadat was assassinated by Muslim extremists who opposed his peace agreement with Israel. Their choice. We do the same thing with US history. The Europeans killed the native Americans. However, people gloss over the fact that the native Americans used to whack each other all the time. The new kids just had better technology. Nineteen out of 20 wars between people in the ME are their choice. No lofty noble religious motives, just the other guys money, oil, and land. For some reason, people who are quick to accuse the US oil interests of invading Iraq for the cash, cannot ascribe those motives to leaders in the ME. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #20 March 2, 2006 >The smart play for the Turks would be to let part of Turkey go when >KURDISTAN forms. Right. But they're as likely to do that as we are to let Maine go back to Canada. They've been fighting against just that possibility for years now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #21 March 2, 2006 I know.... thats why I know it will never happen.. they are not smart enough to actually do that and declare peace....... perhaps after a few million more people in the region are added to the dust problem there they MIGHT decide its time to work toward a peaceful and lasting solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #22 March 2, 2006 You know it wasn't even a real country until after the First World War. Sykes-Picot? A little last minute imperial shuffle amongst the Allied powers?L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #23 March 3, 2006 Quote You know it wasn't even a real country until after the First World War. I know nothing about history. It was all stuff that happened before I was born. How important could that be ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
