The "Falling Man" photograph of the WTC jumper/faller

[Newbie 0]

Last night i watched a really unsettling and gut wrenchingly sad documentary called "The Falling Man" - mainly centred around the identity of the person in this pic and the emotion of the jumpers/fallers caused people when published afterward, as well as the search to see if it was possible to find out the identity of the "falling man", and the ultimate revelation that it was less important to search for the identity of the man, than it was for us to consider the awfulness of one's plight of being in that position, and the inhumanity of how some members of the human race can do such awful things to other members of that own race (at least that was my interpretation of the closing comments).

What i want to ask is this - do you think the image of the falling man, or even anyone who jumped/fell or their plight deserves the outcome that it received? The images were never really published or looked at since the horrific events of that day, or Sept 12th, apart from a 2003 piece for Esquire by the guy who took part in the documentary last night. The documentary rightly mentioned the central theme of pictures of the event were of the heroic work of those working in the aftermath. I firmly believe that the images of those poor souls should not be relegated never to be shown or pondered upon because of the emotion they cause within us when we look at them, and how readily they summarise the true horror of the day. While they are truly hard to look at, i feel that almost keeping them out of sight (and therefore mind) almost denies their existence, when to me, those images force you to imagine and confront within yourself the true horror of what happened to people before the inevitable collapse of the buildings.

Although the 2 towers collapsing obviously caused far greater loss of life, for me, seeing the jumpers/fallers in pictures makes it seem far more "real" in terms of the horror of that event (i don't know if anyone knows what i mean by that, but even when i see the 2 towers go down today, there is still that "this is unbelievable" and "it looks like it's out of a film" feel) and to think that, given that you can understand the jumpers must have thought to themselves, "if i don't jump i will die in the flames", forces you to think about the gut wrenchingly awful predicament those poor people would have been in, whereas those trapped inside the building would most likely not have known their fate - which isn't of course any less of a terrible fate, but the jumpers would have known they would die and were forced into that position.

I don't know, i just came away from the documentary obviously upset and shaken by it, but with a hope that the pictures will not be "brushed under the carpet" away from mainstream exposure, which effectively they seem to have been since Sept 12th, when they were published and received such backlash from people that they have effectively almost entirely been airbrushed from existence. I can understand the anger from some people on Sept 12th, seeing those pics blown up in the Morning Post (in Pittsburgh, i believe it was?) but i think the ensuing silence and almost denial of the pictures is a real travesty, especially to those who died while jumping/falling, almost denying it ever even happened. In fact, one guy took solace in the fact he (seemingly) had managed to identify his wife from a series of 2 photo's - one of her standing at a window, the other of her falling - and this put his mind at ease, knowing at least what had happened to her.

What do you guys think?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Skyrad 0]

What to say? Can't imagine a more crap choice to to make, burn or bounce. Terrible.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[stratostar 5]

I would agree that the photos should not just fade away ,for every reason you posted.
It was hard to watch the event unfold live on TV that day, but you couldn't turn it off just the same.

A friend called me who didn't have TV and asked me what was going on, so I turned on my TV and was giving him a report, I remember telling him about the parts of the building falling down, then it hit me in one clear shot, it was people jumping and not part of the building falling, yet.

Being a skydiver made it all the harder to think about making that choice,there is no hope, burn up or jump.
When you put yourself in that place, I have to stop to wonder how long did they think about it, to not have any hope of rescue and to pick your way of death.

Some of the photos I saw of people in freefall their body positions looked as if they were skydivers while others just fell out of control, I know it's weird for me to say that, but I had to wonder if that was someone like me a skydiver, making the choice to jump and flying not falling.

I think I would have jumped too, but it easy to say that sitting here at home and not trapped in a burning building with only one way out.

A sad day for many people who lived it and one we should never forget, yes it is hard for many to see the photos but I think it is important to stir those feeling in us, for we can't begin to grasp the feelings
of those who jumped and those who didn't.


~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[mr2mk1g 10]

Chaplain Rev. Mychal Judge was killed when struck by a jumper as he paused to give the last rites to a dieing firefighter.

I've heard estimates of 200 jumpers that day.

[murrays 0]

The falling man images were the ones that made it personal. We can relate to the choice that person had to make and put ourselves in his/her shoes.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[lawrocket 3]

The image of a person falling is easily imbedded - it absolutely and directly personalizes it. It's one thing to know that there are people inside of that building who died. It's quite another to see a person actually jumping.

We who have any real experience in the military are acutely aware of this phenomenon. Bomber pilots don't face the same psychological scars - even if they are directly responsible for thousands of deaths - as does an infantryman who has killed a person at close range. Death becomes personal when you can see and identify the human.

This picture, and those like it, were terrible. They really do another thing, too: they get people to really imagining what it must have been like in that building. IT gets the imagination running, and bringing it to an otherwise terrible place that you would not want to go.

I hope I never see those pictures again. And I hope everyone sees them.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[funjumper101 15]

My wife was watching the east coast CBS channel on DirecTV when the first plane hit the WTC.

I turned on the news. I was watching live when the second plane hit. I was glued to the TV all day. I surfed between the channels. Including the spanish language channels.

The spanish channel news was showing footage of the jumpers. Much more than the US language news.

They showed one jumper leap, track away from the building, flare, and cover their face with their hands, then disappear behind other buildings. I puked into a wastebasket. I just saw a fellow skydiver die and I couldn't believe it. It made the event very personal for me. I don't know who it was and I have never tried to find out. It makes me queasy just thinking about it again. Only a skydiver could fly like that.

I will never forget that day. The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

[mnealtx 0]

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The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

Any proof, or is this just another rant?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[funjumper101 15]

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The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

Any proof, or is this just another rant?

Never heard about the PDB in August 2001?

Take a look at

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

The facts. They don't lie.

Did you read Richard Clarke's book "Against all Enemies"?

Didn't think so. You should. You might learn something.

[mnealtx 0]

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The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

Any proof, or is this just another rant?

Never heard about the PDB in August 2001?

Take a look at

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

The facts. They don't lie.

Did you read Richard Clarke's book "Against all Enemies"?

Didn't think so. You should. You might learn something.

Let's see, here...

1. Mention of a planned attack (method unspecified) against LAX (Ressam).

2. Second, non-specified attack planning (Zubaydah).

3. Mention of Bin Laden wanting to have a plane hijacked to force release of Abel Rahman.

4. 1998 mention from an unconfirmed source that there was an AQ cell in New York recruiting Muslim youths.

5. Call to the US Embassy in UAE mentioning Bin Laden supporters in the US planning an explosives attack.

Since I obviously can't read the invisible ink, care to clue me in where it says that "AQ is going to hijack planes and destroy the WTC and Pentagon with them"?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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I will never forget that day. The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

Was this hijack really necessary? Seems all the more tacky given the subject.

Start another thread to shovel this stuff out.

--
I can't think of a worse situation than to know you're dead, but have to wait an hour or two for it to happen.

[skydyvr 0]

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The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable.

Be wary of sensing your feelings as "fact". It'll lead you down some remarkably unproductive roads.

. . =(_8^(1)

[lawrocket 3]

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The facts. They don't lie.

Actually, all the facts don't lie. Example? On February 27, 2006, in Healdsburg, CA, Louis Phillips killed David Ferguson with three shots from a .357 Magnum revolver.

Hey, them's the facts. Those are not disputable facts. But there are other facts not cited that are of fairly significant importance with regard to a decent picture of what happened and what conclusions are to be reached.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[OATSF14 0]

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Since I obviously can't read the invisible ink, care to clue me in where it says that "AQ is going to hijack planes and destroy the WTC and Pentagon with them"?

Amazing isn't it. Conspiracy theorists are amazing humans. Unable to recognize the absolute evil of these people so let's blame it on our own elected officials. Stupidity. Oh well...hopefully they haven't reproduced.

[billvon 3,008]

>Conspiracy theorists are amazing humans.

You're right. It would truly take a conspiracy theorist to think that a briefing entitled "AL QAEDA DETERMINED TO STRIKE US" meant that a terrorist attack by Al Qaeda in the US was a possibility. Heck, it didn't give the date! There was absolutely no way to know that Al Qaeda was a threat from that briefing, or that they might use airplanes or target major buildings. (I mean, it said all those things, but no one has proved that anyone read anything other than the title.) Take that, stupid liberals!

I mean, let's say someone gave a briefing tomorrow entitled "Hamas Group Determined to Strike Green Zone in Baghdad." Loony leftists would probably demand that they consider stopping them instead of bombing Samarra.

[Everon 0]

I don't believe the photos/videos should be permanently hidden from public view. However, this particular photo caused great pain for the Hernandez family. I believe it was a foreign publication that printed this photo and identified him as Norberto Hernandez and this then made it to U.S. circulars and eventually to the Hernandez family. I've seen his child's written response to this and it was heartbreaking. Forensic evidence determined he died in the building, not as a jumper.

As far as preknowledge goes, it's pretty clear that many knew this was going to happen:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html

[funjumper101 15]

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I will never forget that day. The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

Was this hijack really necessary? Seems all the more tacky given the subject.

Start another thread to shovel this stuff out.

--
I can't think of a worse situation than to know you're dead, but have to wait an hour or two for it to happen.

The videos of the jumpers had a major effect on me. I had been to the WTC several times. I had eaten at Windows on the World three times. A good friend's father lives near the WTC site. My friend was supposed to be visiting his father when the attack happened. He wasn't, but I didn't find this out until days later. I thought he died there.

I started contributing to the Democratic party. Local, State, and Federal. Before 9/11/2001 I had some interest in politics, mostly how it affected me and mine. Now I follow with great interest the working of government on a much more macro scale. I write to my congresspeople and the Senators from my state. I show up at anti-war protests. I contribute to local fund that supplies body armor, long distance phone cards and toiletries to the troops in Iraq. When a local kid came back from being blown up by an IED I contributed money towards the construction of the wheelchair ramp and the widening of the doors at his parents house. They had too many volunteers, so I was unable to help with the actual construction.

9/11/2001 got me out of my complacency and made me realize that we, the people, need to hold our leaders accountable for their actions, and more importantly, their inaction, when it comes to our security. Making actual contributions to society is part of our responsibility as productive citizens.

When the USA went after OBL and forced the Taliban out of power, I was totally in favor of it, all the way. When ShrubCo decided to blow off capturing OBL and invade Iraq, I started getting pissed. Now that the Taliban is back in power over a fair portion of the country and Iraq is in the midst of civil war, I am outraged. Shrubco fucked up beyond belief and my great grandchildren will be paying for his mistakes.

No thread hijack at all. It is a thinking person's reaction to LIVE footage of jumpers from the WTC and those that let it happen. Part of the subject of the thread, as far as I am concerned. YMMV.

[kelpdiver 2]

the notion persists that if Gore had been elected, or if Bush had been doing his job, that this attack wouldn't have happened. The likelihood of this being true are pretty low. A report that says that al Queda might make another attack soon (after 3 or 4 over a decade) doesn't really do much other than serve monday morning QBs well.

I take much greater issue with the responses to the attack (TSA, Patriot Act) than the fact that it happened at all.

[sfzombie13 324]

i recall very clearly that day...i was heading to our ng state hq and as i got to the front door, a colonel i knew asked me if my bags were packed. me, having listened to a cd the whole trip and being a good sf soldier, replied "i'm always ready to go, sir". i glanced at the tv in the lobby, and my heart went up to my throat. i spent about ten minutes in there, forgot what i was doing in the first place and returned to my unit, an hour's drive away. when i got there, they had the arms room open passing out weapons and ammo(we're not allowed to store ammo there, but we were sf, we did what we wanted). we had 2 snipers on the roof, and if i remember correctly, put security at the civilian airport a couple of hundred yards away. all of this was very surreal, as if it weren't happening. i got choked up recalling it all. in about three hours, we had about 50% of the unit call in to ask if they needed to report for duty. the next day we called the rest to do an alert roster check. that's the only time in history a guard unit got a 100% notification on the phone. i don't recall seeing jumpers, but heard about it.
last week, i saw a documentary called "loose change" 2d edition. everyone should see it. about 3 weeks after the attacks, i had formed my own opinions thinking that the govt knew about it, even thought they staged it. now i'm convinced. it's available on infowars.com if anyone's interested. i'm not going to push the idea or argue the facts, people label you a conspiracy theorist and call you a nut, etc. but it's not the first ime the govt has done some stupid shit to get what they want, which is an erosion of civil liberties and one step closer to total control. in the words of a great american, earl pitts, "wake up, america"

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[Lucky... 0]

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I will never forget that day. The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

Was this hijack really necessary? Seems all the more tacky given the subject.

Start another thread to shovel this stuff out.

--
I can't think of a worse situation than to know you're dead, but have to wait an hour or two for it to happen.

The videos of the jumpers had a major effect on me. I had been to the WTC several times. I had eaten at Windows on the World three times. A good friend's father lives near the WTC site. My friend was supposed to be visiting his father when the attack happened. He wasn't, but I didn't find this out until days later. I thought he died there.

I started contributing to the Democratic party. Local, State, and Federal. Before 9/11/2001 I had some interest in politics, mostly how it affected me and mine. Now I follow with great interest the working of government on a much more macro scale. I write to my congresspeople and the Senators from my state. I show up at anti-war protests. I contribute to local fund that supplies body armor, long distance phone cards and toiletries to the troops in Iraq. When a local kid came back from being blown up by an IED I contributed money towards the construction of the wheelchair ramp and the widening of the doors at his parents house. They had too many volunteers, so I was unable to help with the actual construction.

9/11/2001 got me out of my complacency and made me realize that we, the people, need to hold our leaders accountable for their actions, and more importantly, their inaction, when it comes to our security. Making actual contributions to society is part of our responsibility as productive citizens.

When the USA went after OBL and forced the Taliban out of power, I was totally in favor of it, all the way. When ShrubCo decided to blow off capturing OBL and invade Iraq, I started getting pissed. Now that the Taliban is back in power over a fair portion of the country and Iraq is in the midst of civil war, I am outraged. Shrubco fucked up beyond belief and my great grandchildren will be paying for his mistakes.

No thread hijack at all. It is a thinking person's reaction to LIVE footage of jumpers from the WTC and those that let it happen. Part of the subject of the thread, as far as I am concerned. YMMV.

Agreed. The terrorist attack of 9/11 is a viable part of the jumpers - no hijack.

To me, these actions you've done demonstrate patriotism, not just falling behind some leader and riding it into the bottom of the ocean.

[Lucky... 0]

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the notion persists that if Gore had been elected, or if Bush had been doing his job, that this attack wouldn't have happened. The likelihood of this being true are pretty low. A report that says that al Queda might make another attack soon (after 3 or 4 over a decade) doesn't really do much other than serve monday morning QBs well.

I take much greater issue with the responses to the attack (TSA, Patriot Act) than the fact that it happened at all.

Agree. Or the reaction to go and teardown a country rather than spend all that money securing our borders; the agenda is really about Old Testament retribution.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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The fact that GWB and his administration knew what was coming, but didn't do anything, is unforgivable. I hope that GWB, Cheney, Rummy, and all of those people rot in hell for all eternity.

Any proof, or is this just another rant?

Are you still supporting the Port Deal? Oh, sorry, wrong thread!

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[nerdgirl 0]

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What do you guys think?

Thanks for the very thoughtful post.

I’m not convinced that the images -- 4 1/2 years on -- should be hidden and removed from the on-going discussions.

From my perspective, I *do* think enough time has elapsed that such images can be brought back to the discussion. How does one do that non-sensationalistically? You have in this post; from your description, the documentary you saw may have. It sounds like the documentary’s producers took very seriously the potential power of one of those WTC jumper images, & perhaps were inspired by the possibility of using that power to think more deeply about the event.

I base my opinion/assessment largely on recent personal experiences (& why they are significant should be evident). Last week I had dinner with two fire chiefs from NYC, along with some other awesome fire officers (... before speaking to a larger group of fire officers). I let them initiate any conversation regarding the WTC attack. They know I skydive. They brought up BASE-jumping from the WTC, which I also do but typically don’t speak about in my professional life. While it’s not the same as the jumpers after the attack, I interpreted a change in the tone of the conversation and the attitudes that they expressed, that I would not have seen a year or two ago.

Namaste,
marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Newbie 0]

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While it’s not the same as the jumpers after the attack, I interpreted a change in the tone of the conversation and the attitudes that they expressed, that I would not have seen a year or two ago.

Interesting post, thanks. I'm being a little slow though - how did their tone and attitude change exactly? Also, when you say you detected a change that you wouldn't have a year or 2 ago, why would this have been the case? I assumed that what you were referring to was the fact you were talking about this over dinner, and due to the subject matter itself, it wouldn't have been a suitable topic of conversation round the dinner table some years ago because the emotions scars had not healed - is this right or am i totally off on the wrong track here?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Airman1270 0]

...Some of the photos I saw of people in freefall their body positions looked as if they were skydivers while others just fell out of control, I know it's weird for me to say that, but I had to wonder if that was someone like me a skydiver, making the choice to jump and flying not falling...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

A year after the event FOX News did a special, including the time line and videos of the incident. One showed a guy who had just jumped from an upper floor: At first he was kinda "kneeling", but as he gained speed he flipped over on his back. His legs leaned to one side, causing a slow spin. After awhile he looked over his shoulder at the ground, as if to wonder why this was taking so long. He then looked back up and placed his arms behind his head as he disappeared behind a wall. The freefall lasted about ten seconds.

I have a bunch of this stuff on tape, as well as several hours of Holocaust video. Sobering stuff.

Cheers,
Jon S.