JohnRich 4 #1 March 20, 2006 News: New Orleans Now Admits It Seized Firearms From Citizens A Second Amendment group calls it a "stunning reversal." After denying it for months, the City of New Orleans on Wednesday admitted that it does have a stockpile of firearms seized from private citizens in the days following Hurricane Katrina. The city even took lawyers to the place where some 1,000 firearms are being stored. "This is a very significant event," said attorney Dan Holliday, who represents National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation in an on-going lawsuit seeking to stop the city from seizing privately-owned firearms. The city's disclosure came as attorneys for both sides prepared for a court hearing on a motion to hold the city in contempt. "What happened in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina was an outrage," he added. "Equally disturbing is the fact that it apparently took a motion for contempt to force the city to admit what it had been denying for the past five months." Source: CNS NewsMore: NRA And New Orleans Reach Agreement On Return Of Firearms Confiscated During Katrina NRA has negotiated an agreement with New Orleans regarding the firearms seized from lawful firearm owners during and after Hurricane Katrina. The issue is pending before the federal court in the case NRA v. Mayor Ray Nagin. On March 15, 2006, lawyers for both sides informed the court that positive settlement negotiations were occurring. New Orleans has now confirmed that it holds a number of firearms and that owners of firearms which may have been confiscated may contact the Property and Evidence division of the New Orleans Police Department. Source: NRA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 March 20, 2006 What a great time to hold a "Toys for Guns" program... or is it a Guns for Toys program. I can never keep that straight...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #3 March 20, 2006 Given that the vast majority of the population was looting, doing dirt, dope, smoking crack and only God knows what else, the law enforcement officials did what they had to do at the time considering the circumstances. Should they return them...Hell Yeah.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #4 March 20, 2006 QuoteGiven that the vast majority of the population was looting, doing dirt, dope, smoking crack and only God knows what else Vast majority? There must be statistics out there I'm not aware of. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #5 March 20, 2006 QuoteGiven that the vast majority of the population was looting, doing dirt, dope, smoking crack and only God knows what else, the law enforcement officials did what they had to do at the time considering the circumstances.Quote what the hell? you would give up your constitutional rights? Should they return them...Hell Yeah. NEVER SHOULD HAVE EVEN TRIED TO TAKE EVEN ONE LAWFULLY OWNED FIREARM all the confiscation did was futher the lawlessness and embolden the criminals. the law was broken by the NOPD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #6 March 20, 2006 Quotethe law was broken by the NOPD That would be nothing new. NOPD has a long history of serious corruption and serious legal issues.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #7 March 20, 2006 it certainly does...the term good old cop usually referred to a police officer being a hired muderer in the NOPD...I forget how many murder indictments but it seems around 50? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #8 March 20, 2006 The Times-Picayune -- New Orleans, Louisiana "New cop takes charge in N.O." by Frank Donze. October 14, 1994 "N.O. woman is fatally shot" obituary of Kim Marie Groves. October 15, 1994 "N.O. police woes on '60 Minutes' by Mark Lorando. October 30, 1994 "Morial lashes back at CBS' by Walt Philbin. November 1, 1994 "Wallace takes on the police force" commentary by James Gill. November 2, 1994 "Cop, 2 others charged in death" by Michael Perlstein and Walt Philbin. December 6, 1994 "Officer had history of complaints" by Michael Perlstein. December 7, 1994 "Crooked N.O. policemen protect and kill" commentary by James Gill. December 9, 1994 "District known for bad cops" by James Varney. December 9, 1994 "Entire force takes rap for bad cops" by Walt Philbin. December 9, 1994 "Crooked cops killing public trust" editorial. December 11, 1994 "'60 Minutes' revisits cops" by Wayne Knabb. December 12, 1994 "Drugs and death discussed on tapes" by Michael Perlstein. December 13, 1994 "Five cops denied bond; others need $100,000" by Walt Philbin. December 14, 1994 "Trust in police vanishes as horror stories unfold" by James Varney. December 14, 1994 "Morial should make NOPD changes" commentary by Iris Kelso. December 15, 1994 "Fired officer back as recruit" by Michael Perlstein. December 15, 1994 "Could murder have been avoided?" commentary by James Gill. December 23, 1994 "6 new recruits fired by new chief" by Michael Perlstein. January 6, 1995 "U.S. might seek death penalty for cop" by James Varney. January 11, 1995 "NOPD work in bars is out, new anti-corruption unit in" by Alfred Charles. January 13, 1995 "Pennington's reform package can't hurt" commentary by Christopher Cooper. January 13, 1995 "A bloody year" by Michael Perlstein. January 15, 1995 "Sweeping change ahead for police" commentary by Iris Kelso. January 15, 1995 "N.O. cops take aim at chief's new plan" by Michael Perlstein. January 17, 1995 "FBI agents assigned to probe N.O. cops" by Michael Perlstein. January 24, 1995 "Ex-cop added to FBI drug-sting list" by Bill Voelker. February 23, 1995 "NOPD officer charged in slaying of cop, 2 others" by Michael Perlstein and Calvin Baker. March 5, 1996 "Police: Cop meant to kill" by Walt Philbin and Lynne Jensen. March 6, 1995 "Cops: Killers linked to drugs" by Mark Schleifstein. March 6, 1995 "Family, comrades mourn cop's loss" by James Varney. March 7, 1995 "NOPD didn't see red flags, records say" by Christopher Cooper and Walt Philbin. March 7, 1995 "Arrest raised eyebrows" by Michael Perlstein. March 7, 1995 "Soaring crime becomes full-time crisis for mayor" by Christopher Cooper. March 10, 1995 "Frank didn't confess to killings, lawyer says" by Alfred Charles. March 10, 1995 "Indictment" Officer wanted to kill again" by Bill Voelker. March 25, 1995 "'60 Minutes' story reiterates list of N.O. police scandals" (no byline). June 5, 1995 "U.S. seeking death for cop" by Michael Perlstein. June 17, 1995 "Department cleaning up act, Pennington tells commission" by James Varney. June 30, 1995 "Teen suspect accused ex-cop in triple murder" by James Varney. July 19, 1995 "Saacks dismissal upheld by panel" by Christopher Cooper and Walt Philbin. July 20, 1995 "Lacaze guilty in triple murder" by James Varney. July 21, 1995 "N.O. police officer accused of extortion" by Michael Perlstein. July 26, 1995 "Cop's trial in killing may focus on 2 men" by Michael Perlstein. August 3, 1995 "Gallagher of the FBI" editorial. August 29, 1995 "Slaying excluded at cops' drug trial" by Bill Voelker. September 21, 1995 "Officer called a partner in crime" by Michael Perlstein. October 13, 1995 "Suit cites cop's record of abusing civilians" by Walt Philbin. October 21, 1995 "FBI joins police probe of 9th Ward drive-by" by Michael Perlstein. October 26, 1995 "Ex-cop gets new attorney in murder trial" by James Varney. December 14, 1995 "Death penalty foe presides over ex-cop's murder trial" by Michael Perlstein. April 8, 1996 "Ex-cop faces federal trial" by Michael Perlstein. April 8, 1996 "2 owners of gun shop guilty of federal charges" by Bill Voelker. April 9, 1996 "Caution slows jury pick in ex-cop's trial in killing" by Michael Perlstein. April 9, 1996 "Attorneys still trying to compile Davis jury" (no byline). April 10, 1996 "Picking ex-cop's jury crawls" by Michael Perlstein. April 11, 1996 "Prosecutors: Rogue cop ordered complainer killed" by Michael Perlstein. April 16, 1996 "Matriarch's serenity keeps family calm during ordeal" by Michael Perlstein. April 16, 1996 "Witness: I drove getaway car after hit" by Michael Perlstein. April 17, 1996 "Laughing cop is taped after woman's murder" by Michael Perlstein. April 18, 1996 "Officer boasted of hit, pal says" by Walt Philbin. April 19, 1996 "Police story: one woman's murder" commentary by James Gill. April 19, 1996 "Wrong man, former cop's defense claims" by Michael Perlstein. April 20, 1996 "Girlfriend testifies to bolster alibi" by Michael Perlstein. April 21, 1996 "Jury gets Davis case after hearing tapes" by Michael Perlstein. April 23, 1996 "Davis jury yet to reach verdict" by Michael Perlstein. April 24, 1996 "GUILTY" by Michael Perlstein. April 25, 1996 "Davis jury lets U.S. seek death penalty" by Alfred Charles. April 26, 1996 "Jurors sentence Davis to death" by James Varney. April 27, 1996 "Murder trial shows us a violent netherworld here" commentary by James Gill. April 28, 1996 "Get to work on police pay" editorial. April 28, 1996 "Killer is portrayed as caring family man" by Michael Perlstein. April 30, 1996 "Fate of hit man in hands of jury" by Michael Perlstein. May 1, 1996 "PANO treasurer accused of thefts" by Walt Philbin. May 1, 1996 "Jury hands Hardy death" by Michael Perlstein. May 2, 1996 "N.O. still killing capital despite drop in homicides" by Petula Dvorak. May 6, 1996 "FBI bags 14 in drug sting" by Walt Philbin. May 3, 1996 "For NOPD, long climb from bottom" commentary by James Gill. May 29, 1996 "Ex-cops likely to plead guilty" by Michael Perlstein. June 28, 1996 "Five officers guilty in coke case" by Michael Perlstein. June 29, 1996 "Former N.O. officer guilty in FBI sting" by Susan Finch. July 11, 1996 "Saacks could face fraud indictment" by Michael Perlstein. July 18, 1996 "Gun dealers get 33months" (no byline). August 29, 1996 "Officer guilty in coke sting" by Michael Perlstein. August 30, 1996 "Ex-PANO treasurer sentenced" by Bill Voelker. September 5, 1996 "Federal cocaine trial begins" by Michael Perlstein. September 10, 1996 "Tapes of cops heart of case" by Michael Perlstein. September 11, 1996 "One voice is defense in officer's drug case" by Michael Perlstein. September 12, 1996 "Defense rests in cop drug trial" by Michael Perlstein. September 12, 1996 "Davis guilty of drug running" by Michael Perlstein. September 13, 1996 "N.O. nightclub owner Frank J. Caracci dies" obituary. September 27, 1996 "Former police get jail in sting" by Bill Voelker. October 10, 1996 "Strong sentences send message" editorial. October 14, 1996 "Saacks headed for trial on fraud" by Bill Voelker. October 22, 1996 "Saacks found guilty of fraud" by Walt Philbin and Bill Voelker. November 3, 1996 "Killer officer delivers diatribe" by Michael Perlstein. November 7, 1996 "Accomplice gets life in cop's murder plot" by Bill Voelker. November 28, 1996 "Police pay plan rewarding veterans gets a green light" by Bruce Nolan. December 31, 1996 "TOP COP: The man behind the badge" by Elizabeth Mullener. March 16, 1997 "N.O. police progress touted on Court TV" by Dennis Persica. July 9, 1997 "Former N.O. cop denied bail in federal drug case" by Bill Voelker. August 15, 1997 "Ex-cop sentenced for drug ring" by Michael Perlstein. August 27, 1998 "Incentives for the chief" editorial. September 3, 1998 "Ex-cop's sentence overturned" by Pamela Coyle and Michael Perlstein. August 17, 1999 "U.S. attorney selection process is heating up" by Stephanie Grace. February 7, 2001 "'Public interest lawyer' named in ex-cop's case" by Michael Perlstein. September 5, 2001 "Cop who ordered killing won't get death" by Susan Finch. December 14, 2002 Gambit -- New Orleans, Louisiana "Our Worst Nightmare" editorial. December 13, 1994 "The First Casualty" editorial. January 24, 1995 "Scuttlebutt" column (various short items on the status of N.O.P.D.) February 21, 1995 "Up to His Ass in Alligators" commentary by Clancy DuBos. March 14, 1995 "Unthinkable Horror" editorial. March 14, 1995 "Saacks Sounds Off" by Allen Johnson Jr. March 21, 1995 "Dead Men Do Tell Tales" by Allen Johnson Jr. October 17, 1995 "The Chief of New Jack City" by Allen Johnson Jr. April 30, 1996 "The Long and Winding Road" commentary by Clancy DuBos. July 9, 1996 "All the Chief's Men" by Allen Johnson Jr. August 20, 1996 "The Thinning Blue Line" by Allen Johnson Jr. September 24, 1996 "Mayor to PANO: 'Get Used to It'" by Allen Johnson Jr. September 24, 1996 Louisiana Weekly -- New Orleans, Louisiana "Cop Cocaine Ring Busted" by Lori N. Wilderson. December 17, 1994 "Rogue Cop Convicted of Protecting Drug Warehouse" by Edmund W. Lewis. September 16-22, 1996 Data News Weekly -- New Orleans, Louisiana "Outgoing Police Chief Looks Back on Long List of Accomplishments" by Dean M. Shapiro. May 11, 2002 New York Times -- New York, NY "New Orleans is Hopeful About Police Overhaul" by Rick Bragg. January 29, 1995 Websites Len Davis case links Shielded from Justice -- New Orleans: Criminal Prosecution http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo98.htm Shielded from Justice -- New Orleans: Incidents http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo94.htm 5th Circuit Court of Appeals 2003 http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/03/03-30077-CV0.wpd.pdf Summary of cases authorized for death penalty (partial transcripts of case) http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/appellate_briefs/briefs/Davis.htm Federal Death Row prisoners http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=29&did=193 Berkeley CopWatch http://www.berkeleycopwatch.org/cwreports/feb95/corrupt.htm The Champion magazine article http://www.criminaljustice.org/public.nsf/0/5cef19f22b17545a85256c440052b4ff?OpenDocument Naked Ownership newsletter article http://www.nakedownership.com/archives/001033.html FindLaw: U.S. Court of Appeal 5th Circuit http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=5th/9830759cr0.html Gill article on today's residency requirement http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/gill/index.ssf?/base/news-0/111078150569360.xml BizNews: Justice Dept. ends 10-year police probe http://bizneworleans.com/109+M5559c3803ca.html Revolution: Ammo for Freedom Fighters http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/body/drugs/legal/nocops.html Socialist Review article http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr190/smith.htm Stolen Lives: Killed by Law Enforcement http://stolenlives.org/read/index.php?action=show§ion=area_louisiana.xml&display=LOUISIANA&area=20 Louisiana Weekly article 8/27/01 http://www.louisianaweekly.com/cgi-bin/weekly/news/articlegate.pl?20010827i US Dept of Justice press release 5/1/96 http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1996/May96/202.cr.htm summary of cases for the death penalty http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/summaries_of_cases/case_summ2.asp?cid=101 Clancy DuBos article from Gambit http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2002-05-07/news_feat.html Carl Haydel press release for Criminal Sheriff http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?query=len+davis+new+orleans+police&page=3&invocationType=topsearchbox.webhome Free and Brave article on Pennington improvements http://www.freeandbrave.8m.com/ Transcript of White vs. United States http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2002/0responses/2002-0274.resp.html Daniel Barry masters thesis pp 26-27 http://www.neiassociates.org/barrythesis.pdf NOPD history http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=50&tabid=9 Other Sources Author's notes from trial of Len Davis, Paul Hardy and Damon Causey: April 8-24, 1996 Duplicate audio cassette tapes furnished by the U.S. Attorney's office for the following dates and times: 9/30/94 7:51 p.m. 9/30/94 7:59 p.m. 9/30/94 8:07-8:08 p.m. 10/13/94 5:09 p.m. 10/13/94 6:14 p.m. 10/13/94 6:24-6:31 p.m. 10/13/94 7:28 p.m. 10/13/94 9:46-9:49 p.m. 10/13/94 10:01 p.m. 10/13/94 10:43 p.m. 10/13/94 11:10 p.m. 10/13/94 11:11 p.m. 10/13/94 11:13 p.m. 10/13/94 11:20 p.m. 10/13/94 11:20-11:25 p.m. 10/13/94 11:22 p.m. 10/14/94 12:20 a.m. 10/14/94 12:53 a.m. 10/14/94 1:19 a.m. 10/14/94 1:51 p.m. 10/14/94 3:14 p.m. 10/17/94 8:58 p.m. 10/20/94 10:08 p.m. 10/20/94 10:26 p.m. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #9 March 20, 2006 QuoteGiven that the vast majority of the population was looting, doing dirt, dope, smoking crack and only God knows what else, the law enforcement officials did what they had to do at the time considering the circumstances. I question your "vast majority". They can legally take guns from anyone they catch doing those things. They cannot legally take guns from people who aren't doing those things. And there's the problem - they confiscated them from everyone, legal or not. The innocent should not be treated like criminals and punished, just because some other people are breaking the law. That's a lousy model for a just and free society. Constitutional rights cannot be ignored just because of a hurricane. If you allow that to occur, then all of our constitutional rights are in jeopardy for any lame excuse whatsoever. What are they going to do, go door to door and confiscate firearms every single time a hurricane threatens the coast? What about earthquakes? Tornados? Snow storms? Riots? Political protests? Where's it going to stop? For those of you answering that the police were correct, you need to seriously reconsider your thoughts on this issue. Even if you hate guns, that's fine, but this is the wrong way to ban them, as you're likely to lose all your other rights along with them. If you allow this action's precedent to stand, then any government official, at any level, can suspend your constitutional rights, simply by declaring a state of emergency. And that's the exact time when they are most important and should be most protected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #10 March 20, 2006 QuoteNEVER SHOULD HAVE EVEN TRIED TO TAKE EVEN ONE LAWFULLY OWNED FIREARM all the confiscation did was futher the lawlessness and embolden the criminals. It is staggering that something so obvious was missed by authorities. Lets see.... we have lawbreakers running around killing and raping law abiders, using unregistered guns that we will never be able to confiscate.........hhhmmmm....I know....lets disarm the law abiders, and leave them defenseless!!! I am sorry Warped Skydiver but you make too much sense. That is why the government did the opposite because the government are idiots. If I were a gun owner who was left defenceless, and had a family member who I otherwise could have protected get harmed, I would get other similar victims and launch the nastiest class action I could against the police, government ..etc. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #11 March 21, 2006 I really don't think there were just too many instances where they had police officers confiscating weapons from law abiding CCL carrying individuals. Most of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals. I've tried really...really hard to feel sorry for those people, but i'm having a hard time doing it, they knew the stinking hurricane was coming well in advance, and watching everyone loot what was left behind left a lot to be desired.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #12 March 21, 2006 As I said before - time spent looking for and siezeing weapons was time that these cops could have been doing something productive instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyPsycho 0 #13 March 21, 2006 QuoteI really don't think there were just too many instances where they had police officers confiscating weapons from law abiding CCL carrying individuals. Most of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals. I've tried really...really hard to feel sorry for those people, but i'm having a hard time doing it, they knew the stinking hurricane was coming well in advance, and watching everyone loot what was left behind left a lot to be desired. and just why is it that youre thinking you need a ccl to legally own firearms? _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #14 March 21, 2006 Quoteand just why is it that youre thinking you need a ccl to legally own firearms? A point of clarification: You don't need a CCL to own fire arms, BUT to carry a concealed weapon, you do have to be in possession of a CCL to carry a concealed hand gun in Louisiana - Oklahoma and Texas.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #15 March 21, 2006 QuoteI really don't think there were just too many instances where they had police officers confiscating weapons from law abiding CCL carrying individuals. Most of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals. I've tried really...really hard to feel sorry for those people, but i'm having a hard time doing it, they knew the stinking hurricane was coming well in advance, and watching everyone loot what was left behind left a lot to be desired. That isn't true The Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house...wanna make a bet there were some less threatening things taken as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jib 0 #16 March 21, 2006 QuoteMost of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals.reply] People left their firearms out in plain sight in their houses when they left? Or the police, (who weren't looting themselves?), searched people's private residences in case they found guns? I'd be more than a little pissed if the government was searching my stuff without a warrant or any safeguards let alone for the hope that they might find a gun. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #17 March 21, 2006 QuoteThe Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house... Source citation, please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #18 March 21, 2006 New Orleans under fire for gun swap with Glock The gun swap was approved by the New Orleans City Council and signed by the mayor City among first to sue gun industry January 29, 1999 Web posted at: 1:00 p.m. EST (1800 GMT) In this story: What if swapped weapons are used in crimes? Traded guns not to be sold in Louisiana Related stories NEW ORLEANS (CNN) -- Officials in the Crescent City are under fire for their February 1998 decision -- made public this week -- to trade thousands of confiscated weapons and old service pistols for new guns for city police. Police traded 7,200 confiscated weapons and old 9 mm pistols for about 1,700 new Glock .40-caliber weapons. The deal was sanctioned by the New Orleans City Council and signed by Mayor Marc Morial. But New Orleans residents weren't aware of the gun swap until Thursday, when Morial and an official from gun maker Glock Inc. faced off in a broadcast interview on government lawsuits against the gun industry. The interview was conducted on NBC's "Today" show. During a heated debate, Paul Jannuzzo, Glock's vice president and general counsel, publicly accused Morial and New Orleans of hypocrisy for putting weapons back into the commercial marketplace while simultaneously suing the gun industry. What if swapped weapons are used in crimes? Under the deal, none of the swapped guns are to be sold in Louisiana Last year, New Orleans and Chicago became the first cities to sue the industry for allegedly not doing enough to curb gun violence. Bridgeport, Connecticut, and Miami-Dade County, Florida, this week filed similar lawsuits. The Metropolitan Crime Commission of New Orleans, a private watchdog group, said the city could find itself the target of a lawsuit, if one of the traded weapons were used in a crime. "To learn that the city has exported 7,000 guns seized from street criminals to other parts of the country is really mind-boggling and the height of hypocrisy," said Rafael Goyeneche, president of the commission. BACKGROUND CNN's Allan Dodds Frank examines the municipal movement against guns (Windows: 28K 80K) Targeting guns at the source GUNS AND THE LAW At a Glance Interactive Timeline INTERACTIVE MAPS Cities vs. Guns Gun laws by state MESSAGE BOARD Who's responsible for gun violence? POLL Should gun manufacturers be held liable for gun violence? Yes No Sometimes or View Results Traded guns not to be sold in Louisiana Under the deal, the swapped guns are not to be resold in Louisiana, but New Orleans police admit there is no guarantee that some of the weapons won't make their way back into the state. The guns are expected to be sold through a federally licensed dealer to people who meet legal standards, Deputy Police Superintendent Duane Johnson said during a news conference on Thursday. "We have an obligation to the people of New Orleans and our officers to give them the most technologically advanced equipment possible," Johnson said, defending the decision. Johnson The officer said he expects many of the guns will be used for parts, and that remaining pieces will be destroyed. Linda McDonald, who heads the city's chapter of Parents of Murdered Children, said officials should track down the traded weapons, buy them and destroy them. "The people of the city were under the impression they were doing away with these guns," McDonald said. "There's no assurance these guns will not come back here, and even if they don't, they will be used to kill people in other areas." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #19 March 21, 2006 Homeowners' guns confiscated in New Orleans, police threaten evacuation by force by Don Babwin, Associated Press Sept. 9, 2005 [Day 12] NEW ORLEANS -- Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later. As many as 10,000 people were believed to be stubbornly staying put in the city, despite Katrina's filthy, corpse-strewn floodwaters and orders from Mayor Ray Nagin earlier this week to leave or be removed by force. By midmorning, though, there were no immediate reports of anyone being taken out forcibly, police said. Police are "not going to do that until we absolutely have to. We really don't want to do that at all," Deputy Chief Warren Riley said. Some residents who had previously refused to leave -- whether because they wanted to protect their homes from looters, they did not want to leave their pets behind, or they simply feared the unknown -- are now changing their minds and asking to be rescued, police said. "They realize they're not going to this awful situation like the Superdome or the Convention Center," Riley said. "As days go by, it seems less and less likely that we'll have to force anyone." He added: "I don't know of any incidents where people are being belligerent." Some residents said they left under extreme pressure. "They were all insisting that I had to leave my home," said Shelia Dalferes, who said she had 15 minutes to pack before she and her husband were evacuated. "The implication was there with their plastic handcuffs on their belt. Who wants to go out like that?" Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Jason Rule said his crew pulled 18 people from their homes Thursday. He said some of the holdouts did not want to leave unless they could take their pets. "It's getting to the point where they're delirious," Rule said. "A couple of them don't know who they were. They think the water will go down in a few days." Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go. "Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery. The floodwaters are slowly receding, but the task of gathering rotting corpses and clearing debris is certain to take months. Police went door-to-door checking for bodies or anyone in need of rescue. Houses where corpses were found were marked so that authorities could go back later. The mayor has said the death toll in New Orleans alone could be 10,000, and state officials have ordered 25,000 body bags. At two collection sites, federal mortuary teams gathered information that might help identify the bodies, such as where they were found. Personal effects were also being logged. At a temporary morgue set up in nearby St. Gabriel, where 67 bodies had been collected by Thursday, the remains were being photographed and forensic workers hoped to use dental X-rays, fingerprints and DNA to identify them. Dr. Bryan Patucci, coroner of St. Bernard Parish, said it may be impossible to identify all the victims until authorities compile a final list of missing people. Decaying corpses in the floodwaters could pose problems for engineers who are desperately trying to pump the city dry. While 37 of the 174 pumps in the New Orleans area were working and 17 portable pumps were in place Thursday, officials said the mammoth undertaking could be complicated by corpses getting clogged in the pumps. "It's got a huge focus of our attention right now," said John Rickey of the Army Corps of Engineers. "Those remains are people's loved ones." Some 400,000 homes in the city were still without power, with no immediate prospect of getting it back. And fires continued to be a problem. At least 11 blazes burned across the city Thursday. Three buildings were destroyed at historically black Dillard University. Also Thursday, Congress rushed through an additional $51.8 billion for Katrina relief, and President Bush pledged to make it "easy and simple as possible" for uprooted storm victims to collect food stamps and other government benefits. To counter criticism of the slow federal response to the disaster, Vice President Dick Cheney toured parts of the ravaged Gulf Coast, claiming significant progress but acknowledging immense obstacles remained to a full recovery. Meanwhile, Democrats threatened to boycott the naming of a panel that Republican leaders are proposing to investigate the administration's readiness and response to the storm. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said it was like a baseball pitcher calling "his own balls and strikes." Democrats have urged the appointment of an independent panel like the Sept. 11 commission. As originally published Quote SAF-NRA Lawsuit Halts NO Gun Grab by Dave Workman Senior Editor The National Rifle Association (NRA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) marched into federal court last month in Baton Rouge, LA, and came out with a stunning victory that put a stop to gun confiscations by police and National Guard units brought in to restore order to New Orleans and surrounding parishes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. A lawsuit filed in US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana successfully won a temporary restraining order (TRO), signed by Judge Jay Zainey. The order required an end to the seizures, and also the prompt return of confiscated firearms. The victory came as a prelude to the 20th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in Los Angeles—coverage of which will begin in the Oct. 20 Gun Week—and dominated discussions there. SAF founder Alan Gottlieb called the judge’s order “a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gunowners everywhere.” “We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions,” Gottlieb said. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told Gun Week that the decision “sends a strong signal that if anybody dares confiscation, they will find themselves in court.” LaPierre was visibly angry about the gun seizures. “For the first time in America, peaceable citizens who were trying to protect themselves from looters, were disarmed at gun point,” he stressed. He accused New Orleans authorities of “participating in the theft of property.” Gun Week learned that almost immediately after Zainey issued the TRO, the sheriff in St. Tammany Parish announced he would return all confiscated guns. Firearms were reportedly returned to Buell O. Teel, one of the individual plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Gunowners across the nation became furious when police—many of them from outside jurisdictions who had come to the Crescent City to help restore order—and National Guardsmen began confiscating guns after New Orleans Police Chief P. Edwin Compass III told reporters, “Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,” and ABC News quoted Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley stating, “No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons.” In court documents, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Compass and another defendant, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain, denied they had ordered the firearms seizures. However, statements by Compass and Riley were enough to counter that claim. When word got out from the New Orleans area that guns were being confiscated, Gottlieb immediately demanded an explanation. “Our inquiries about these confiscations were cavalierly ignored,” he said, “as were our demands for a public explanation from the police and city officials about why citizens were being unlawfully disarmed, leaving them defenseless against lingering bands of looters and thugs.” Working with Virginia attorney Stephen Halbrook, a nationally-recognized Second Amendment expert, Baton Rouge attorney Daniel Holliday, NRA and SAF sent investigators into the storm-ravaged New Orleans area to find and contact citizens whose guns had been confiscated. In the process, investigators discovered that citizens whose firearms had been taken were not being given receipts for their property, thus creating a situation where it could be almost impossible for many gunowners to ever recover their guns because they might be unable to verify ownership. Gun Week learned of one man who had 14 firearms seized, apparently by St. Tammany officers and National Guardsmen. This individual apparently was given a receipt, and was allegedly told that he would get his guns back, “hopefully in two to three months.” The man subsequently contacted a New Orleans police officer who apparently told him that St. Tammany officers had no jurisdiction in New Orleans, nor any right to seize his firearms. When the man then contacted St. Tammany police, demanding the return of his firearms, authorities allegedly refused. Both SAF and NRA had condemned what amounted to the warrantless searches of residences, and in a couple of cases, boats on Lake Pontchartrain, and seizures of all firearms. Incredibly, in at least one case caught on film by an ABC News camera crew, soldiers with the visiting Oklahoma National Guard placed two people in handcuffs, took their firearms, and then released them to remain in the city, which at the time was in chaos, with gangs of roving thugs, and packs of hungry dogs posing equal dangers. In that video, a guardsman identified as Fred Bible, observed, “It’s surreal. You never expect to do this in your own country.” In another scene, guardsman Chris Montgomery acknowledged that he was uncomfortable with the prospect that he might have to open fire on an American citizen as his unit was trying to force people to evacuate. As word of the confiscations spread, gun rights activists flooded Internet chat groups with comments ranging from disbelief to disgust. A few opined that gun rights organizations like SAF and NRA had been vindicated after years of warnings that arbitrary gun confiscations could happen in emergency situations, leaving people defenseless. The joint NRA-SAF investigation discovered one incident involving Teel, a resident of St. Tammany Parish, whose boat was boarded twice on Lake Pontchartrain, when he was working for the Pala Interstate Company in an effort to find an open path from the north shore of the lake to the New Orleans Industrial Canal. He was stopped by a St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s patrol boat, and in his affidavit, he asserted that there were five officers on board, four in uniform, and that they identified themselves as members of the New York First Response Team assigned to St. Tammany Parish. Gun Week has learned that about 180 New York City police officers had traveled to the area following the hurricane to help put down the anarchy and looting that followed. Teel said that the officers asked whether there were firearms aboard, and he told them that he had two rifles, a Browning chambered in .270 Winchester and a Savage chambered in 7mm Magnum. While two of the New York officers kept him covered with rifles, two other officers boarded his boat, searched it and took Teel’s rifles, while the fifth man refused to give him a receipt for the guns. They only told him the guns would be taken to the St. Tammany Parish courthouse where he could get them later. The officers apparently told Teel the guns were being seized under cover of some Parish ordinance, but he does not recall a specific cite. In only one case where firearms were taken was there apparently a warrant issued, and that was in the case of a search, conducted by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In that case, ATF took guns that were part of a collection of World War I and World War II military firearms, and subsequently advised the owner where the guns were, and that they would be returned to him promptly when he is able to either return to his home or establish some other residence and storage accommodations. None of the other seizures, including the one filmed by ABC News and another caught on film by a news team from KTVU in San Francisco, apparently were done with the benefit of a warrant. The KTVU news footage has become infamous, because it shows members of the California Highway Patrol, working with Louisiana State Police, going into the home of a woman identified as Patricia Konie. Armed with a small-caliber revolver, Konie asked the officers to leave her home. Instead, she was tackled by two of them and disarmed, then led from the house, put on a military truck and taken to the New Orleans Convention Center—scene of reported rapes and murders—for evacuation. Her current whereabouts is still unknown as this issue goes to press. Both Gottlieb and LaPierre told Gun Week that the situation was so outrageous that they had no alternative to taking direct action. “New Orleans officials left us with no recourse,” Gottlieb observed. “It was bad enough that Big Easy residents were victims of the worst natural disaster in the nation’s history. That they would be subsequently victimized by their own local government, taking their personal property without warrant, is unconscionable.” “At a time of chaos,” LaPierre noted, “the very underpinning of a citizen’s right to survive (was seized). . . . The last time law-abiding citizens were disarmed, it was done by King George, and that didn’t work for him, either.” ---------------------------------------------------------- I have volumes of this stuff from very credible sources and many from the NRA, but most of you lefties don't consider them credible. THE COURTS DO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #20 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house... Source citation, please? Oh, and in the future please feel free to question whether or not I have sources for the postion I have stated.I can assure you right now that no topic will be off limits. Would you care for more citations and sources at this time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyPsycho 0 #21 March 21, 2006 QuoteHomeowners' guns confiscated in New Orleans, police threaten evacuation by force by Don Babwin, Associated Press Sept. 9, 2005 [Day 12] NEW ORLEANS -- Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later. As many as 10,000 people were believed to be stubbornly staying put in the city, despite Katrina's filthy, corpse-strewn floodwaters and orders from Mayor Ray Nagin earlier this week to leave or be removed by force. By midmorning, though, there were no immediate reports of anyone being taken out forcibly, police said. Police are "not going to do that until we absolutely have to. We really don't want to do that at all," Deputy Chief Warren Riley said. Some residents who had previously refused to leave -- whether because they wanted to protect their homes from looters, they did not want to leave their pets behind, or they simply feared the unknown -- are now changing their minds and asking to be rescued, police said. "They realize they're not going to this awful situation like the Superdome or the Convention Center," Riley said. "As days go by, it seems less and less likely that we'll have to force anyone." He added: "I don't know of any incidents where people are being belligerent." Some residents said they left under extreme pressure. "They were all insisting that I had to leave my home," said Shelia Dalferes, who said she had 15 minutes to pack before she and her husband were evacuated. "The implication was there with their plastic handcuffs on their belt. Who wants to go out like that?" Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Jason Rule said his crew pulled 18 people from their homes Thursday. He said some of the holdouts did not want to leave unless they could take their pets. "It's getting to the point where they're delirious," Rule said. "A couple of them don't know who they were. They think the water will go down in a few days." Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go. "Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery. The floodwaters are slowly receding, but the task of gathering rotting corpses and clearing debris is certain to take months. Police went door-to-door checking for bodies or anyone in need of rescue. Houses where corpses were found were marked so that authorities could go back later. The mayor has said the death toll in New Orleans alone could be 10,000, and state officials have ordered 25,000 body bags. At two collection sites, federal mortuary teams gathered information that might help identify the bodies, such as where they were found. Personal effects were also being logged. At a temporary morgue set up in nearby St. Gabriel, where 67 bodies had been collected by Thursday, the remains were being photographed and forensic workers hoped to use dental X-rays, fingerprints and DNA to identify them. Dr. Bryan Patucci, coroner of St. Bernard Parish, said it may be impossible to identify all the victims until authorities compile a final list of missing people. Decaying corpses in the floodwaters could pose problems for engineers who are desperately trying to pump the city dry. While 37 of the 174 pumps in the New Orleans area were working and 17 portable pumps were in place Thursday, officials said the mammoth undertaking could be complicated by corpses getting clogged in the pumps. "It's got a huge focus of our attention right now," said John Rickey of the Army Corps of Engineers. "Those remains are people's loved ones." Some 400,000 homes in the city were still without power, with no immediate prospect of getting it back. And fires continued to be a problem. At least 11 blazes burned across the city Thursday. Three buildings were destroyed at historically black Dillard University. Also Thursday, Congress rushed through an additional $51.8 billion for Katrina relief, and President Bush pledged to make it "easy and simple as possible" for uprooted storm victims to collect food stamps and other government benefits. To counter criticism of the slow federal response to the disaster, Vice President Dick Cheney toured parts of the ravaged Gulf Coast, claiming significant progress but acknowledging immense obstacles remained to a full recovery. Meanwhile, Democrats threatened to boycott the naming of a panel that Republican leaders are proposing to investigate the administration's readiness and response to the storm. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said it was like a baseball pitcher calling "his own balls and strikes." Democrats have urged the appointment of an independent panel like the Sept. 11 commission. As originally published Quote SAF-NRA Lawsuit Halts NO Gun Grab by Dave Workman Senior Editor The National Rifle Association (NRA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) marched into federal court last month in Baton Rouge, LA, and came out with a stunning victory that put a stop to gun confiscations by police and National Guard units brought in to restore order to New Orleans and surrounding parishes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. A lawsuit filed in US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana successfully won a temporary restraining order (TRO), signed by Judge Jay Zainey. The order required an end to the seizures, and also the prompt return of confiscated firearms. The victory came as a prelude to the 20th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in Los Angeles—coverage of which will begin in the Oct. 20 Gun Week—and dominated discussions there. SAF founder Alan Gottlieb called the judge’s order “a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gunowners everywhere.” “We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions,” Gottlieb said. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told Gun Week that the decision “sends a strong signal that if anybody dares confiscation, they will find themselves in court.” LaPierre was visibly angry about the gun seizures. “For the first time in America, peaceable citizens who were trying to protect themselves from looters, were disarmed at gun point,” he stressed. He accused New Orleans authorities of “participating in the theft of property.” Gun Week learned that almost immediately after Zainey issued the TRO, the sheriff in St. Tammany Parish announced he would return all confiscated guns. Firearms were reportedly returned to Buell O. Teel, one of the individual plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Gunowners across the nation became furious when police—many of them from outside jurisdictions who had come to the Crescent City to help restore order—and National Guardsmen began confiscating guns after New Orleans Police Chief P. Edwin Compass III told reporters, “Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,” and ABC News quoted Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley stating, “No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons.” In court documents, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Compass and another defendant, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain, denied they had ordered the firearms seizures. However, statements by Compass and Riley were enough to counter that claim. When word got out from the New Orleans area that guns were being confiscated, Gottlieb immediately demanded an explanation. “Our inquiries about these confiscations were cavalierly ignored,” he said, “as were our demands for a public explanation from the police and city officials about why citizens were being unlawfully disarmed, leaving them defenseless against lingering bands of looters and thugs.” Working with Virginia attorney Stephen Halbrook, a nationally-recognized Second Amendment expert, Baton Rouge attorney Daniel Holliday, NRA and SAF sent investigators into the storm-ravaged New Orleans area to find and contact citizens whose guns had been confiscated. In the process, investigators discovered that citizens whose firearms had been taken were not being given receipts for their property, thus creating a situation where it could be almost impossible for many gunowners to ever recover their guns because they might be unable to verify ownership. Gun Week learned of one man who had 14 firearms seized, apparently by St. Tammany officers and National Guardsmen. This individual apparently was given a receipt, and was allegedly told that he would get his guns back, “hopefully in two to three months.” The man subsequently contacted a New Orleans police officer who apparently told him that St. Tammany officers had no jurisdiction in New Orleans, nor any right to seize his firearms. When the man then contacted St. Tammany police, demanding the return of his firearms, authorities allegedly refused. Both SAF and NRA had condemned what amounted to the warrantless searches of residences, and in a couple of cases, boats on Lake Pontchartrain, and seizures of all firearms. Incredibly, in at least one case caught on film by an ABC News camera crew, soldiers with the visiting Oklahoma National Guard placed two people in handcuffs, took their firearms, and then released them to remain in the city, which at the time was in chaos, with gangs of roving thugs, and packs of hungry dogs posing equal dangers. In that video, a guardsman identified as Fred Bible, observed, “It’s surreal. You never expect to do this in your own country.” In another scene, guardsman Chris Montgomery acknowledged that he was uncomfortable with the prospect that he might have to open fire on an American citizen as his unit was trying to force people to evacuate. As word of the confiscations spread, gun rights activists flooded Internet chat groups with comments ranging from disbelief to disgust. A few opined that gun rights organizations like SAF and NRA had been vindicated after years of warnings that arbitrary gun confiscations could happen in emergency situations, leaving people defenseless. The joint NRA-SAF investigation discovered one incident involving Teel, a resident of St. Tammany Parish, whose boat was boarded twice on Lake Pontchartrain, when he was working for the Pala Interstate Company in an effort to find an open path from the north shore of the lake to the New Orleans Industrial Canal. He was stopped by a St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s patrol boat, and in his affidavit, he asserted that there were five officers on board, four in uniform, and that they identified themselves as members of the New York First Response Team assigned to St. Tammany Parish. Gun Week has learned that about 180 New York City police officers had traveled to the area following the hurricane to help put down the anarchy and looting that followed. Teel said that the officers asked whether there were firearms aboard, and he told them that he had two rifles, a Browning chambered in .270 Winchester and a Savage chambered in 7mm Magnum. While two of the New York officers kept him covered with rifles, two other officers boarded his boat, searched it and took Teel’s rifles, while the fifth man refused to give him a receipt for the guns. They only told him the guns would be taken to the St. Tammany Parish courthouse where he could get them later. The officers apparently told Teel the guns were being seized under cover of some Parish ordinance, but he does not recall a specific cite. In only one case where firearms were taken was there apparently a warrant issued, and that was in the case of a search, conducted by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In that case, ATF took guns that were part of a collection of World War I and World War II military firearms, and subsequently advised the owner where the guns were, and that they would be returned to him promptly when he is able to either return to his home or establish some other residence and storage accommodations. None of the other seizures, including the one filmed by ABC News and another caught on film by a news team from KTVU in San Francisco, apparently were done with the benefit of a warrant. The KTVU news footage has become infamous, because it shows members of the California Highway Patrol, working with Louisiana State Police, going into the home of a woman identified as Patricia Konie. Armed with a small-caliber revolver, Konie asked the officers to leave her home. Instead, she was tackled by two of them and disarmed, then led from the house, put on a military truck and taken to the New Orleans Convention Center—scene of reported rapes and murders—for evacuation. Her current whereabouts is still unknown as this issue goes to press. Both Gottlieb and LaPierre told Gun Week that the situation was so outrageous that they had no alternative to taking direct action. “New Orleans officials left us with no recourse,” Gottlieb observed. “It was bad enough that Big Easy residents were victims of the worst natural disaster in the nation’s history. That they would be subsequently victimized by their own local government, taking their personal property without warrant, is unconscionable.” “At a time of chaos,” LaPierre noted, “the very underpinning of a citizen’s right to survive (was seized). . . . The last time law-abiding citizens were disarmed, it was done by King George, and that didn’t work for him, either.” ---------------------------------------------------------- I have volumes of this stuff from very credible sources and many from the NRA, but most of you lefties don't consider them credible. THE COURTS DO! i dont like quoting all the text in this post, because i have no attention span to read any long posts unless i actually take great interest in it, but i read all of it and this absolutely disgusts me.......... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #22 March 21, 2006 TYVM it was worth the reading and I am tired of people disputing FACT with nothing more than hyperbole and yes silence is golden, whenever you have it, and however you achieve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #23 March 22, 2006 We've had four people at this point vote that the police acted correctly to seize firearms from lawful people. And the only explanation for that vote, has been from someone who believes that (paraphrasing) in those circumstances everyone should be treated like a criminal. Is that the best argument you anti-gun folks have to justify this action? Who amongst those four has the guts to step forward here and explain the justification for your vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unformed 0 #24 March 22, 2006 It is imperative for the safety of the public that in times of crisis that weapons be removed from the public. Yes it is treating everyone like a criminal, but it is for the better good of the public. However, now that the crisis is taken care of, the guns should be returned to their rightful owners.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #25 March 22, 2006 I bet one or two of the 4 did it just to piss you off, John. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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AggieDave 6 #6 March 20, 2006 Quotethe law was broken by the NOPD That would be nothing new. NOPD has a long history of serious corruption and serious legal issues.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #7 March 20, 2006 it certainly does...the term good old cop usually referred to a police officer being a hired muderer in the NOPD...I forget how many murder indictments but it seems around 50? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 March 20, 2006 The Times-Picayune -- New Orleans, Louisiana "New cop takes charge in N.O." by Frank Donze. October 14, 1994 "N.O. woman is fatally shot" obituary of Kim Marie Groves. October 15, 1994 "N.O. police woes on '60 Minutes' by Mark Lorando. October 30, 1994 "Morial lashes back at CBS' by Walt Philbin. November 1, 1994 "Wallace takes on the police force" commentary by James Gill. November 2, 1994 "Cop, 2 others charged in death" by Michael Perlstein and Walt Philbin. December 6, 1994 "Officer had history of complaints" by Michael Perlstein. December 7, 1994 "Crooked N.O. policemen protect and kill" commentary by James Gill. December 9, 1994 "District known for bad cops" by James Varney. December 9, 1994 "Entire force takes rap for bad cops" by Walt Philbin. December 9, 1994 "Crooked cops killing public trust" editorial. December 11, 1994 "'60 Minutes' revisits cops" by Wayne Knabb. December 12, 1994 "Drugs and death discussed on tapes" by Michael Perlstein. December 13, 1994 "Five cops denied bond; others need $100,000" by Walt Philbin. December 14, 1994 "Trust in police vanishes as horror stories unfold" by James Varney. December 14, 1994 "Morial should make NOPD changes" commentary by Iris Kelso. December 15, 1994 "Fired officer back as recruit" by Michael Perlstein. December 15, 1994 "Could murder have been avoided?" commentary by James Gill. December 23, 1994 "6 new recruits fired by new chief" by Michael Perlstein. January 6, 1995 "U.S. might seek death penalty for cop" by James Varney. January 11, 1995 "NOPD work in bars is out, new anti-corruption unit in" by Alfred Charles. January 13, 1995 "Pennington's reform package can't hurt" commentary by Christopher Cooper. January 13, 1995 "A bloody year" by Michael Perlstein. January 15, 1995 "Sweeping change ahead for police" commentary by Iris Kelso. January 15, 1995 "N.O. cops take aim at chief's new plan" by Michael Perlstein. January 17, 1995 "FBI agents assigned to probe N.O. cops" by Michael Perlstein. January 24, 1995 "Ex-cop added to FBI drug-sting list" by Bill Voelker. February 23, 1995 "NOPD officer charged in slaying of cop, 2 others" by Michael Perlstein and Calvin Baker. March 5, 1996 "Police: Cop meant to kill" by Walt Philbin and Lynne Jensen. March 6, 1995 "Cops: Killers linked to drugs" by Mark Schleifstein. March 6, 1995 "Family, comrades mourn cop's loss" by James Varney. March 7, 1995 "NOPD didn't see red flags, records say" by Christopher Cooper and Walt Philbin. March 7, 1995 "Arrest raised eyebrows" by Michael Perlstein. March 7, 1995 "Soaring crime becomes full-time crisis for mayor" by Christopher Cooper. March 10, 1995 "Frank didn't confess to killings, lawyer says" by Alfred Charles. March 10, 1995 "Indictment" Officer wanted to kill again" by Bill Voelker. March 25, 1995 "'60 Minutes' story reiterates list of N.O. police scandals" (no byline). June 5, 1995 "U.S. seeking death for cop" by Michael Perlstein. June 17, 1995 "Department cleaning up act, Pennington tells commission" by James Varney. June 30, 1995 "Teen suspect accused ex-cop in triple murder" by James Varney. July 19, 1995 "Saacks dismissal upheld by panel" by Christopher Cooper and Walt Philbin. July 20, 1995 "Lacaze guilty in triple murder" by James Varney. July 21, 1995 "N.O. police officer accused of extortion" by Michael Perlstein. July 26, 1995 "Cop's trial in killing may focus on 2 men" by Michael Perlstein. August 3, 1995 "Gallagher of the FBI" editorial. August 29, 1995 "Slaying excluded at cops' drug trial" by Bill Voelker. September 21, 1995 "Officer called a partner in crime" by Michael Perlstein. October 13, 1995 "Suit cites cop's record of abusing civilians" by Walt Philbin. October 21, 1995 "FBI joins police probe of 9th Ward drive-by" by Michael Perlstein. October 26, 1995 "Ex-cop gets new attorney in murder trial" by James Varney. December 14, 1995 "Death penalty foe presides over ex-cop's murder trial" by Michael Perlstein. April 8, 1996 "Ex-cop faces federal trial" by Michael Perlstein. April 8, 1996 "2 owners of gun shop guilty of federal charges" by Bill Voelker. April 9, 1996 "Caution slows jury pick in ex-cop's trial in killing" by Michael Perlstein. April 9, 1996 "Attorneys still trying to compile Davis jury" (no byline). April 10, 1996 "Picking ex-cop's jury crawls" by Michael Perlstein. April 11, 1996 "Prosecutors: Rogue cop ordered complainer killed" by Michael Perlstein. April 16, 1996 "Matriarch's serenity keeps family calm during ordeal" by Michael Perlstein. April 16, 1996 "Witness: I drove getaway car after hit" by Michael Perlstein. April 17, 1996 "Laughing cop is taped after woman's murder" by Michael Perlstein. April 18, 1996 "Officer boasted of hit, pal says" by Walt Philbin. April 19, 1996 "Police story: one woman's murder" commentary by James Gill. April 19, 1996 "Wrong man, former cop's defense claims" by Michael Perlstein. April 20, 1996 "Girlfriend testifies to bolster alibi" by Michael Perlstein. April 21, 1996 "Jury gets Davis case after hearing tapes" by Michael Perlstein. April 23, 1996 "Davis jury yet to reach verdict" by Michael Perlstein. April 24, 1996 "GUILTY" by Michael Perlstein. April 25, 1996 "Davis jury lets U.S. seek death penalty" by Alfred Charles. April 26, 1996 "Jurors sentence Davis to death" by James Varney. April 27, 1996 "Murder trial shows us a violent netherworld here" commentary by James Gill. April 28, 1996 "Get to work on police pay" editorial. April 28, 1996 "Killer is portrayed as caring family man" by Michael Perlstein. April 30, 1996 "Fate of hit man in hands of jury" by Michael Perlstein. May 1, 1996 "PANO treasurer accused of thefts" by Walt Philbin. May 1, 1996 "Jury hands Hardy death" by Michael Perlstein. May 2, 1996 "N.O. still killing capital despite drop in homicides" by Petula Dvorak. May 6, 1996 "FBI bags 14 in drug sting" by Walt Philbin. May 3, 1996 "For NOPD, long climb from bottom" commentary by James Gill. May 29, 1996 "Ex-cops likely to plead guilty" by Michael Perlstein. June 28, 1996 "Five officers guilty in coke case" by Michael Perlstein. June 29, 1996 "Former N.O. officer guilty in FBI sting" by Susan Finch. July 11, 1996 "Saacks could face fraud indictment" by Michael Perlstein. July 18, 1996 "Gun dealers get 33months" (no byline). August 29, 1996 "Officer guilty in coke sting" by Michael Perlstein. August 30, 1996 "Ex-PANO treasurer sentenced" by Bill Voelker. September 5, 1996 "Federal cocaine trial begins" by Michael Perlstein. September 10, 1996 "Tapes of cops heart of case" by Michael Perlstein. September 11, 1996 "One voice is defense in officer's drug case" by Michael Perlstein. September 12, 1996 "Defense rests in cop drug trial" by Michael Perlstein. September 12, 1996 "Davis guilty of drug running" by Michael Perlstein. September 13, 1996 "N.O. nightclub owner Frank J. Caracci dies" obituary. September 27, 1996 "Former police get jail in sting" by Bill Voelker. October 10, 1996 "Strong sentences send message" editorial. October 14, 1996 "Saacks headed for trial on fraud" by Bill Voelker. October 22, 1996 "Saacks found guilty of fraud" by Walt Philbin and Bill Voelker. November 3, 1996 "Killer officer delivers diatribe" by Michael Perlstein. November 7, 1996 "Accomplice gets life in cop's murder plot" by Bill Voelker. November 28, 1996 "Police pay plan rewarding veterans gets a green light" by Bruce Nolan. December 31, 1996 "TOP COP: The man behind the badge" by Elizabeth Mullener. March 16, 1997 "N.O. police progress touted on Court TV" by Dennis Persica. July 9, 1997 "Former N.O. cop denied bail in federal drug case" by Bill Voelker. August 15, 1997 "Ex-cop sentenced for drug ring" by Michael Perlstein. August 27, 1998 "Incentives for the chief" editorial. September 3, 1998 "Ex-cop's sentence overturned" by Pamela Coyle and Michael Perlstein. August 17, 1999 "U.S. attorney selection process is heating up" by Stephanie Grace. February 7, 2001 "'Public interest lawyer' named in ex-cop's case" by Michael Perlstein. September 5, 2001 "Cop who ordered killing won't get death" by Susan Finch. December 14, 2002 Gambit -- New Orleans, Louisiana "Our Worst Nightmare" editorial. December 13, 1994 "The First Casualty" editorial. January 24, 1995 "Scuttlebutt" column (various short items on the status of N.O.P.D.) February 21, 1995 "Up to His Ass in Alligators" commentary by Clancy DuBos. March 14, 1995 "Unthinkable Horror" editorial. March 14, 1995 "Saacks Sounds Off" by Allen Johnson Jr. March 21, 1995 "Dead Men Do Tell Tales" by Allen Johnson Jr. October 17, 1995 "The Chief of New Jack City" by Allen Johnson Jr. April 30, 1996 "The Long and Winding Road" commentary by Clancy DuBos. July 9, 1996 "All the Chief's Men" by Allen Johnson Jr. August 20, 1996 "The Thinning Blue Line" by Allen Johnson Jr. September 24, 1996 "Mayor to PANO: 'Get Used to It'" by Allen Johnson Jr. September 24, 1996 Louisiana Weekly -- New Orleans, Louisiana "Cop Cocaine Ring Busted" by Lori N. Wilderson. December 17, 1994 "Rogue Cop Convicted of Protecting Drug Warehouse" by Edmund W. Lewis. September 16-22, 1996 Data News Weekly -- New Orleans, Louisiana "Outgoing Police Chief Looks Back on Long List of Accomplishments" by Dean M. Shapiro. May 11, 2002 New York Times -- New York, NY "New Orleans is Hopeful About Police Overhaul" by Rick Bragg. January 29, 1995 Websites Len Davis case links Shielded from Justice -- New Orleans: Criminal Prosecution http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo98.htm Shielded from Justice -- New Orleans: Incidents http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo94.htm 5th Circuit Court of Appeals 2003 http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/03/03-30077-CV0.wpd.pdf Summary of cases authorized for death penalty (partial transcripts of case) http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/appellate_briefs/briefs/Davis.htm Federal Death Row prisoners http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=29&did=193 Berkeley CopWatch http://www.berkeleycopwatch.org/cwreports/feb95/corrupt.htm The Champion magazine article http://www.criminaljustice.org/public.nsf/0/5cef19f22b17545a85256c440052b4ff?OpenDocument Naked Ownership newsletter article http://www.nakedownership.com/archives/001033.html FindLaw: U.S. Court of Appeal 5th Circuit http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=5th/9830759cr0.html Gill article on today's residency requirement http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/gill/index.ssf?/base/news-0/111078150569360.xml BizNews: Justice Dept. ends 10-year police probe http://bizneworleans.com/109+M5559c3803ca.html Revolution: Ammo for Freedom Fighters http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/body/drugs/legal/nocops.html Socialist Review article http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr190/smith.htm Stolen Lives: Killed by Law Enforcement http://stolenlives.org/read/index.php?action=show§ion=area_louisiana.xml&display=LOUISIANA&area=20 Louisiana Weekly article 8/27/01 http://www.louisianaweekly.com/cgi-bin/weekly/news/articlegate.pl?20010827i US Dept of Justice press release 5/1/96 http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1996/May96/202.cr.htm summary of cases for the death penalty http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/summaries_of_cases/case_summ2.asp?cid=101 Clancy DuBos article from Gambit http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2002-05-07/news_feat.html Carl Haydel press release for Criminal Sheriff http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?query=len+davis+new+orleans+police&page=3&invocationType=topsearchbox.webhome Free and Brave article on Pennington improvements http://www.freeandbrave.8m.com/ Transcript of White vs. United States http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2002/0responses/2002-0274.resp.html Daniel Barry masters thesis pp 26-27 http://www.neiassociates.org/barrythesis.pdf NOPD history http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=50&tabid=9 Other Sources Author's notes from trial of Len Davis, Paul Hardy and Damon Causey: April 8-24, 1996 Duplicate audio cassette tapes furnished by the U.S. Attorney's office for the following dates and times: 9/30/94 7:51 p.m. 9/30/94 7:59 p.m. 9/30/94 8:07-8:08 p.m. 10/13/94 5:09 p.m. 10/13/94 6:14 p.m. 10/13/94 6:24-6:31 p.m. 10/13/94 7:28 p.m. 10/13/94 9:46-9:49 p.m. 10/13/94 10:01 p.m. 10/13/94 10:43 p.m. 10/13/94 11:10 p.m. 10/13/94 11:11 p.m. 10/13/94 11:13 p.m. 10/13/94 11:20 p.m. 10/13/94 11:20-11:25 p.m. 10/13/94 11:22 p.m. 10/14/94 12:20 a.m. 10/14/94 12:53 a.m. 10/14/94 1:19 a.m. 10/14/94 1:51 p.m. 10/14/94 3:14 p.m. 10/17/94 8:58 p.m. 10/20/94 10:08 p.m. 10/20/94 10:26 p.m. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 March 20, 2006 QuoteGiven that the vast majority of the population was looting, doing dirt, dope, smoking crack and only God knows what else, the law enforcement officials did what they had to do at the time considering the circumstances. I question your "vast majority". They can legally take guns from anyone they catch doing those things. They cannot legally take guns from people who aren't doing those things. And there's the problem - they confiscated them from everyone, legal or not. The innocent should not be treated like criminals and punished, just because some other people are breaking the law. That's a lousy model for a just and free society. Constitutional rights cannot be ignored just because of a hurricane. If you allow that to occur, then all of our constitutional rights are in jeopardy for any lame excuse whatsoever. What are they going to do, go door to door and confiscate firearms every single time a hurricane threatens the coast? What about earthquakes? Tornados? Snow storms? Riots? Political protests? Where's it going to stop? For those of you answering that the police were correct, you need to seriously reconsider your thoughts on this issue. Even if you hate guns, that's fine, but this is the wrong way to ban them, as you're likely to lose all your other rights along with them. If you allow this action's precedent to stand, then any government official, at any level, can suspend your constitutional rights, simply by declaring a state of emergency. And that's the exact time when they are most important and should be most protected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #10 March 20, 2006 QuoteNEVER SHOULD HAVE EVEN TRIED TO TAKE EVEN ONE LAWFULLY OWNED FIREARM all the confiscation did was futher the lawlessness and embolden the criminals. It is staggering that something so obvious was missed by authorities. Lets see.... we have lawbreakers running around killing and raping law abiders, using unregistered guns that we will never be able to confiscate.........hhhmmmm....I know....lets disarm the law abiders, and leave them defenseless!!! I am sorry Warped Skydiver but you make too much sense. That is why the government did the opposite because the government are idiots. If I were a gun owner who was left defenceless, and had a family member who I otherwise could have protected get harmed, I would get other similar victims and launch the nastiest class action I could against the police, government ..etc. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #11 March 21, 2006 I really don't think there were just too many instances where they had police officers confiscating weapons from law abiding CCL carrying individuals. Most of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals. I've tried really...really hard to feel sorry for those people, but i'm having a hard time doing it, they knew the stinking hurricane was coming well in advance, and watching everyone loot what was left behind left a lot to be desired.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #12 March 21, 2006 As I said before - time spent looking for and siezeing weapons was time that these cops could have been doing something productive instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #13 March 21, 2006 QuoteI really don't think there were just too many instances where they had police officers confiscating weapons from law abiding CCL carrying individuals. Most of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals. I've tried really...really hard to feel sorry for those people, but i'm having a hard time doing it, they knew the stinking hurricane was coming well in advance, and watching everyone loot what was left behind left a lot to be desired. and just why is it that youre thinking you need a ccl to legally own firearms? _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #14 March 21, 2006 Quoteand just why is it that youre thinking you need a ccl to legally own firearms? A point of clarification: You don't need a CCL to own fire arms, BUT to carry a concealed weapon, you do have to be in possession of a CCL to carry a concealed hand gun in Louisiana - Oklahoma and Texas.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #15 March 21, 2006 QuoteI really don't think there were just too many instances where they had police officers confiscating weapons from law abiding CCL carrying individuals. Most of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals. I've tried really...really hard to feel sorry for those people, but i'm having a hard time doing it, they knew the stinking hurricane was coming well in advance, and watching everyone loot what was left behind left a lot to be desired. That isn't true The Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house...wanna make a bet there were some less threatening things taken as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #16 March 21, 2006 QuoteMost of the weapons they confiscated were in homes that were abondened during the hurricane, and were left unnatended by the owners. Let's face it with all of the mayhem and chaos it was either gather the loose weapons up or arm the idiots. They didn't have time to make that call, everything was happening way too fast. I'm certainly not in agreement with confiscating legal weapons in the possession of law abiding individuals.reply] People left their firearms out in plain sight in their houses when they left? Or the police, (who weren't looting themselves?), searched people's private residences in case they found guns? I'd be more than a little pissed if the government was searching my stuff without a warrant or any safeguards let alone for the hope that they might find a gun. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #17 March 21, 2006 QuoteThe Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house... Source citation, please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #18 March 21, 2006 New Orleans under fire for gun swap with Glock The gun swap was approved by the New Orleans City Council and signed by the mayor City among first to sue gun industry January 29, 1999 Web posted at: 1:00 p.m. EST (1800 GMT) In this story: What if swapped weapons are used in crimes? Traded guns not to be sold in Louisiana Related stories NEW ORLEANS (CNN) -- Officials in the Crescent City are under fire for their February 1998 decision -- made public this week -- to trade thousands of confiscated weapons and old service pistols for new guns for city police. Police traded 7,200 confiscated weapons and old 9 mm pistols for about 1,700 new Glock .40-caliber weapons. The deal was sanctioned by the New Orleans City Council and signed by Mayor Marc Morial. But New Orleans residents weren't aware of the gun swap until Thursday, when Morial and an official from gun maker Glock Inc. faced off in a broadcast interview on government lawsuits against the gun industry. The interview was conducted on NBC's "Today" show. During a heated debate, Paul Jannuzzo, Glock's vice president and general counsel, publicly accused Morial and New Orleans of hypocrisy for putting weapons back into the commercial marketplace while simultaneously suing the gun industry. What if swapped weapons are used in crimes? Under the deal, none of the swapped guns are to be sold in Louisiana Last year, New Orleans and Chicago became the first cities to sue the industry for allegedly not doing enough to curb gun violence. Bridgeport, Connecticut, and Miami-Dade County, Florida, this week filed similar lawsuits. The Metropolitan Crime Commission of New Orleans, a private watchdog group, said the city could find itself the target of a lawsuit, if one of the traded weapons were used in a crime. "To learn that the city has exported 7,000 guns seized from street criminals to other parts of the country is really mind-boggling and the height of hypocrisy," said Rafael Goyeneche, president of the commission. BACKGROUND CNN's Allan Dodds Frank examines the municipal movement against guns (Windows: 28K 80K) Targeting guns at the source GUNS AND THE LAW At a Glance Interactive Timeline INTERACTIVE MAPS Cities vs. Guns Gun laws by state MESSAGE BOARD Who's responsible for gun violence? POLL Should gun manufacturers be held liable for gun violence? Yes No Sometimes or View Results Traded guns not to be sold in Louisiana Under the deal, the swapped guns are not to be resold in Louisiana, but New Orleans police admit there is no guarantee that some of the weapons won't make their way back into the state. The guns are expected to be sold through a federally licensed dealer to people who meet legal standards, Deputy Police Superintendent Duane Johnson said during a news conference on Thursday. "We have an obligation to the people of New Orleans and our officers to give them the most technologically advanced equipment possible," Johnson said, defending the decision. Johnson The officer said he expects many of the guns will be used for parts, and that remaining pieces will be destroyed. Linda McDonald, who heads the city's chapter of Parents of Murdered Children, said officials should track down the traded weapons, buy them and destroy them. "The people of the city were under the impression they were doing away with these guns," McDonald said. "There's no assurance these guns will not come back here, and even if they don't, they will be used to kill people in other areas." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #19 March 21, 2006 Homeowners' guns confiscated in New Orleans, police threaten evacuation by force by Don Babwin, Associated Press Sept. 9, 2005 [Day 12] NEW ORLEANS -- Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later. As many as 10,000 people were believed to be stubbornly staying put in the city, despite Katrina's filthy, corpse-strewn floodwaters and orders from Mayor Ray Nagin earlier this week to leave or be removed by force. By midmorning, though, there were no immediate reports of anyone being taken out forcibly, police said. Police are "not going to do that until we absolutely have to. We really don't want to do that at all," Deputy Chief Warren Riley said. Some residents who had previously refused to leave -- whether because they wanted to protect their homes from looters, they did not want to leave their pets behind, or they simply feared the unknown -- are now changing their minds and asking to be rescued, police said. "They realize they're not going to this awful situation like the Superdome or the Convention Center," Riley said. "As days go by, it seems less and less likely that we'll have to force anyone." He added: "I don't know of any incidents where people are being belligerent." Some residents said they left under extreme pressure. "They were all insisting that I had to leave my home," said Shelia Dalferes, who said she had 15 minutes to pack before she and her husband were evacuated. "The implication was there with their plastic handcuffs on their belt. Who wants to go out like that?" Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Jason Rule said his crew pulled 18 people from their homes Thursday. He said some of the holdouts did not want to leave unless they could take their pets. "It's getting to the point where they're delirious," Rule said. "A couple of them don't know who they were. They think the water will go down in a few days." Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go. "Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery. The floodwaters are slowly receding, but the task of gathering rotting corpses and clearing debris is certain to take months. Police went door-to-door checking for bodies or anyone in need of rescue. Houses where corpses were found were marked so that authorities could go back later. The mayor has said the death toll in New Orleans alone could be 10,000, and state officials have ordered 25,000 body bags. At two collection sites, federal mortuary teams gathered information that might help identify the bodies, such as where they were found. Personal effects were also being logged. At a temporary morgue set up in nearby St. Gabriel, where 67 bodies had been collected by Thursday, the remains were being photographed and forensic workers hoped to use dental X-rays, fingerprints and DNA to identify them. Dr. Bryan Patucci, coroner of St. Bernard Parish, said it may be impossible to identify all the victims until authorities compile a final list of missing people. Decaying corpses in the floodwaters could pose problems for engineers who are desperately trying to pump the city dry. While 37 of the 174 pumps in the New Orleans area were working and 17 portable pumps were in place Thursday, officials said the mammoth undertaking could be complicated by corpses getting clogged in the pumps. "It's got a huge focus of our attention right now," said John Rickey of the Army Corps of Engineers. "Those remains are people's loved ones." Some 400,000 homes in the city were still without power, with no immediate prospect of getting it back. And fires continued to be a problem. At least 11 blazes burned across the city Thursday. Three buildings were destroyed at historically black Dillard University. Also Thursday, Congress rushed through an additional $51.8 billion for Katrina relief, and President Bush pledged to make it "easy and simple as possible" for uprooted storm victims to collect food stamps and other government benefits. To counter criticism of the slow federal response to the disaster, Vice President Dick Cheney toured parts of the ravaged Gulf Coast, claiming significant progress but acknowledging immense obstacles remained to a full recovery. Meanwhile, Democrats threatened to boycott the naming of a panel that Republican leaders are proposing to investigate the administration's readiness and response to the storm. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said it was like a baseball pitcher calling "his own balls and strikes." Democrats have urged the appointment of an independent panel like the Sept. 11 commission. As originally published Quote SAF-NRA Lawsuit Halts NO Gun Grab by Dave Workman Senior Editor The National Rifle Association (NRA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) marched into federal court last month in Baton Rouge, LA, and came out with a stunning victory that put a stop to gun confiscations by police and National Guard units brought in to restore order to New Orleans and surrounding parishes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. A lawsuit filed in US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana successfully won a temporary restraining order (TRO), signed by Judge Jay Zainey. The order required an end to the seizures, and also the prompt return of confiscated firearms. The victory came as a prelude to the 20th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in Los Angeles—coverage of which will begin in the Oct. 20 Gun Week—and dominated discussions there. SAF founder Alan Gottlieb called the judge’s order “a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gunowners everywhere.” “We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions,” Gottlieb said. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told Gun Week that the decision “sends a strong signal that if anybody dares confiscation, they will find themselves in court.” LaPierre was visibly angry about the gun seizures. “For the first time in America, peaceable citizens who were trying to protect themselves from looters, were disarmed at gun point,” he stressed. He accused New Orleans authorities of “participating in the theft of property.” Gun Week learned that almost immediately after Zainey issued the TRO, the sheriff in St. Tammany Parish announced he would return all confiscated guns. Firearms were reportedly returned to Buell O. Teel, one of the individual plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Gunowners across the nation became furious when police—many of them from outside jurisdictions who had come to the Crescent City to help restore order—and National Guardsmen began confiscating guns after New Orleans Police Chief P. Edwin Compass III told reporters, “Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,” and ABC News quoted Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley stating, “No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons.” In court documents, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Compass and another defendant, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain, denied they had ordered the firearms seizures. However, statements by Compass and Riley were enough to counter that claim. When word got out from the New Orleans area that guns were being confiscated, Gottlieb immediately demanded an explanation. “Our inquiries about these confiscations were cavalierly ignored,” he said, “as were our demands for a public explanation from the police and city officials about why citizens were being unlawfully disarmed, leaving them defenseless against lingering bands of looters and thugs.” Working with Virginia attorney Stephen Halbrook, a nationally-recognized Second Amendment expert, Baton Rouge attorney Daniel Holliday, NRA and SAF sent investigators into the storm-ravaged New Orleans area to find and contact citizens whose guns had been confiscated. In the process, investigators discovered that citizens whose firearms had been taken were not being given receipts for their property, thus creating a situation where it could be almost impossible for many gunowners to ever recover their guns because they might be unable to verify ownership. Gun Week learned of one man who had 14 firearms seized, apparently by St. Tammany officers and National Guardsmen. This individual apparently was given a receipt, and was allegedly told that he would get his guns back, “hopefully in two to three months.” The man subsequently contacted a New Orleans police officer who apparently told him that St. Tammany officers had no jurisdiction in New Orleans, nor any right to seize his firearms. When the man then contacted St. Tammany police, demanding the return of his firearms, authorities allegedly refused. Both SAF and NRA had condemned what amounted to the warrantless searches of residences, and in a couple of cases, boats on Lake Pontchartrain, and seizures of all firearms. Incredibly, in at least one case caught on film by an ABC News camera crew, soldiers with the visiting Oklahoma National Guard placed two people in handcuffs, took their firearms, and then released them to remain in the city, which at the time was in chaos, with gangs of roving thugs, and packs of hungry dogs posing equal dangers. In that video, a guardsman identified as Fred Bible, observed, “It’s surreal. You never expect to do this in your own country.” In another scene, guardsman Chris Montgomery acknowledged that he was uncomfortable with the prospect that he might have to open fire on an American citizen as his unit was trying to force people to evacuate. As word of the confiscations spread, gun rights activists flooded Internet chat groups with comments ranging from disbelief to disgust. A few opined that gun rights organizations like SAF and NRA had been vindicated after years of warnings that arbitrary gun confiscations could happen in emergency situations, leaving people defenseless. The joint NRA-SAF investigation discovered one incident involving Teel, a resident of St. Tammany Parish, whose boat was boarded twice on Lake Pontchartrain, when he was working for the Pala Interstate Company in an effort to find an open path from the north shore of the lake to the New Orleans Industrial Canal. He was stopped by a St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s patrol boat, and in his affidavit, he asserted that there were five officers on board, four in uniform, and that they identified themselves as members of the New York First Response Team assigned to St. Tammany Parish. Gun Week has learned that about 180 New York City police officers had traveled to the area following the hurricane to help put down the anarchy and looting that followed. Teel said that the officers asked whether there were firearms aboard, and he told them that he had two rifles, a Browning chambered in .270 Winchester and a Savage chambered in 7mm Magnum. While two of the New York officers kept him covered with rifles, two other officers boarded his boat, searched it and took Teel’s rifles, while the fifth man refused to give him a receipt for the guns. They only told him the guns would be taken to the St. Tammany Parish courthouse where he could get them later. The officers apparently told Teel the guns were being seized under cover of some Parish ordinance, but he does not recall a specific cite. In only one case where firearms were taken was there apparently a warrant issued, and that was in the case of a search, conducted by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In that case, ATF took guns that were part of a collection of World War I and World War II military firearms, and subsequently advised the owner where the guns were, and that they would be returned to him promptly when he is able to either return to his home or establish some other residence and storage accommodations. None of the other seizures, including the one filmed by ABC News and another caught on film by a news team from KTVU in San Francisco, apparently were done with the benefit of a warrant. The KTVU news footage has become infamous, because it shows members of the California Highway Patrol, working with Louisiana State Police, going into the home of a woman identified as Patricia Konie. Armed with a small-caliber revolver, Konie asked the officers to leave her home. Instead, she was tackled by two of them and disarmed, then led from the house, put on a military truck and taken to the New Orleans Convention Center—scene of reported rapes and murders—for evacuation. Her current whereabouts is still unknown as this issue goes to press. Both Gottlieb and LaPierre told Gun Week that the situation was so outrageous that they had no alternative to taking direct action. “New Orleans officials left us with no recourse,” Gottlieb observed. “It was bad enough that Big Easy residents were victims of the worst natural disaster in the nation’s history. That they would be subsequently victimized by their own local government, taking their personal property without warrant, is unconscionable.” “At a time of chaos,” LaPierre noted, “the very underpinning of a citizen’s right to survive (was seized). . . . The last time law-abiding citizens were disarmed, it was done by King George, and that didn’t work for him, either.” ---------------------------------------------------------- I have volumes of this stuff from very credible sources and many from the NRA, but most of you lefties don't consider them credible. THE COURTS DO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #20 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house... Source citation, please? Oh, and in the future please feel free to question whether or not I have sources for the postion I have stated.I can assure you right now that no topic will be off limits. Would you care for more citations and sources at this time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyPsycho 0 #21 March 21, 2006 QuoteHomeowners' guns confiscated in New Orleans, police threaten evacuation by force by Don Babwin, Associated Press Sept. 9, 2005 [Day 12] NEW ORLEANS -- Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later. As many as 10,000 people were believed to be stubbornly staying put in the city, despite Katrina's filthy, corpse-strewn floodwaters and orders from Mayor Ray Nagin earlier this week to leave or be removed by force. By midmorning, though, there were no immediate reports of anyone being taken out forcibly, police said. Police are "not going to do that until we absolutely have to. We really don't want to do that at all," Deputy Chief Warren Riley said. Some residents who had previously refused to leave -- whether because they wanted to protect their homes from looters, they did not want to leave their pets behind, or they simply feared the unknown -- are now changing their minds and asking to be rescued, police said. "They realize they're not going to this awful situation like the Superdome or the Convention Center," Riley said. "As days go by, it seems less and less likely that we'll have to force anyone." He added: "I don't know of any incidents where people are being belligerent." Some residents said they left under extreme pressure. "They were all insisting that I had to leave my home," said Shelia Dalferes, who said she had 15 minutes to pack before she and her husband were evacuated. "The implication was there with their plastic handcuffs on their belt. Who wants to go out like that?" Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Jason Rule said his crew pulled 18 people from their homes Thursday. He said some of the holdouts did not want to leave unless they could take their pets. "It's getting to the point where they're delirious," Rule said. "A couple of them don't know who they were. They think the water will go down in a few days." Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go. "Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery. The floodwaters are slowly receding, but the task of gathering rotting corpses and clearing debris is certain to take months. Police went door-to-door checking for bodies or anyone in need of rescue. Houses where corpses were found were marked so that authorities could go back later. The mayor has said the death toll in New Orleans alone could be 10,000, and state officials have ordered 25,000 body bags. At two collection sites, federal mortuary teams gathered information that might help identify the bodies, such as where they were found. Personal effects were also being logged. At a temporary morgue set up in nearby St. Gabriel, where 67 bodies had been collected by Thursday, the remains were being photographed and forensic workers hoped to use dental X-rays, fingerprints and DNA to identify them. Dr. Bryan Patucci, coroner of St. Bernard Parish, said it may be impossible to identify all the victims until authorities compile a final list of missing people. Decaying corpses in the floodwaters could pose problems for engineers who are desperately trying to pump the city dry. While 37 of the 174 pumps in the New Orleans area were working and 17 portable pumps were in place Thursday, officials said the mammoth undertaking could be complicated by corpses getting clogged in the pumps. "It's got a huge focus of our attention right now," said John Rickey of the Army Corps of Engineers. "Those remains are people's loved ones." Some 400,000 homes in the city were still without power, with no immediate prospect of getting it back. And fires continued to be a problem. At least 11 blazes burned across the city Thursday. Three buildings were destroyed at historically black Dillard University. Also Thursday, Congress rushed through an additional $51.8 billion for Katrina relief, and President Bush pledged to make it "easy and simple as possible" for uprooted storm victims to collect food stamps and other government benefits. To counter criticism of the slow federal response to the disaster, Vice President Dick Cheney toured parts of the ravaged Gulf Coast, claiming significant progress but acknowledging immense obstacles remained to a full recovery. Meanwhile, Democrats threatened to boycott the naming of a panel that Republican leaders are proposing to investigate the administration's readiness and response to the storm. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said it was like a baseball pitcher calling "his own balls and strikes." Democrats have urged the appointment of an independent panel like the Sept. 11 commission. As originally published Quote SAF-NRA Lawsuit Halts NO Gun Grab by Dave Workman Senior Editor The National Rifle Association (NRA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) marched into federal court last month in Baton Rouge, LA, and came out with a stunning victory that put a stop to gun confiscations by police and National Guard units brought in to restore order to New Orleans and surrounding parishes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. A lawsuit filed in US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana successfully won a temporary restraining order (TRO), signed by Judge Jay Zainey. The order required an end to the seizures, and also the prompt return of confiscated firearms. The victory came as a prelude to the 20th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in Los Angeles—coverage of which will begin in the Oct. 20 Gun Week—and dominated discussions there. SAF founder Alan Gottlieb called the judge’s order “a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gunowners everywhere.” “We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions,” Gottlieb said. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told Gun Week that the decision “sends a strong signal that if anybody dares confiscation, they will find themselves in court.” LaPierre was visibly angry about the gun seizures. “For the first time in America, peaceable citizens who were trying to protect themselves from looters, were disarmed at gun point,” he stressed. He accused New Orleans authorities of “participating in the theft of property.” Gun Week learned that almost immediately after Zainey issued the TRO, the sheriff in St. Tammany Parish announced he would return all confiscated guns. Firearms were reportedly returned to Buell O. Teel, one of the individual plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Gunowners across the nation became furious when police—many of them from outside jurisdictions who had come to the Crescent City to help restore order—and National Guardsmen began confiscating guns after New Orleans Police Chief P. Edwin Compass III told reporters, “Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,” and ABC News quoted Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley stating, “No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons.” In court documents, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Compass and another defendant, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain, denied they had ordered the firearms seizures. However, statements by Compass and Riley were enough to counter that claim. When word got out from the New Orleans area that guns were being confiscated, Gottlieb immediately demanded an explanation. “Our inquiries about these confiscations were cavalierly ignored,” he said, “as were our demands for a public explanation from the police and city officials about why citizens were being unlawfully disarmed, leaving them defenseless against lingering bands of looters and thugs.” Working with Virginia attorney Stephen Halbrook, a nationally-recognized Second Amendment expert, Baton Rouge attorney Daniel Holliday, NRA and SAF sent investigators into the storm-ravaged New Orleans area to find and contact citizens whose guns had been confiscated. In the process, investigators discovered that citizens whose firearms had been taken were not being given receipts for their property, thus creating a situation where it could be almost impossible for many gunowners to ever recover their guns because they might be unable to verify ownership. Gun Week learned of one man who had 14 firearms seized, apparently by St. Tammany officers and National Guardsmen. This individual apparently was given a receipt, and was allegedly told that he would get his guns back, “hopefully in two to three months.” The man subsequently contacted a New Orleans police officer who apparently told him that St. Tammany officers had no jurisdiction in New Orleans, nor any right to seize his firearms. When the man then contacted St. Tammany police, demanding the return of his firearms, authorities allegedly refused. Both SAF and NRA had condemned what amounted to the warrantless searches of residences, and in a couple of cases, boats on Lake Pontchartrain, and seizures of all firearms. Incredibly, in at least one case caught on film by an ABC News camera crew, soldiers with the visiting Oklahoma National Guard placed two people in handcuffs, took their firearms, and then released them to remain in the city, which at the time was in chaos, with gangs of roving thugs, and packs of hungry dogs posing equal dangers. In that video, a guardsman identified as Fred Bible, observed, “It’s surreal. You never expect to do this in your own country.” In another scene, guardsman Chris Montgomery acknowledged that he was uncomfortable with the prospect that he might have to open fire on an American citizen as his unit was trying to force people to evacuate. As word of the confiscations spread, gun rights activists flooded Internet chat groups with comments ranging from disbelief to disgust. A few opined that gun rights organizations like SAF and NRA had been vindicated after years of warnings that arbitrary gun confiscations could happen in emergency situations, leaving people defenseless. The joint NRA-SAF investigation discovered one incident involving Teel, a resident of St. Tammany Parish, whose boat was boarded twice on Lake Pontchartrain, when he was working for the Pala Interstate Company in an effort to find an open path from the north shore of the lake to the New Orleans Industrial Canal. He was stopped by a St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s patrol boat, and in his affidavit, he asserted that there were five officers on board, four in uniform, and that they identified themselves as members of the New York First Response Team assigned to St. Tammany Parish. Gun Week has learned that about 180 New York City police officers had traveled to the area following the hurricane to help put down the anarchy and looting that followed. Teel said that the officers asked whether there were firearms aboard, and he told them that he had two rifles, a Browning chambered in .270 Winchester and a Savage chambered in 7mm Magnum. While two of the New York officers kept him covered with rifles, two other officers boarded his boat, searched it and took Teel’s rifles, while the fifth man refused to give him a receipt for the guns. They only told him the guns would be taken to the St. Tammany Parish courthouse where he could get them later. The officers apparently told Teel the guns were being seized under cover of some Parish ordinance, but he does not recall a specific cite. In only one case where firearms were taken was there apparently a warrant issued, and that was in the case of a search, conducted by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In that case, ATF took guns that were part of a collection of World War I and World War II military firearms, and subsequently advised the owner where the guns were, and that they would be returned to him promptly when he is able to either return to his home or establish some other residence and storage accommodations. None of the other seizures, including the one filmed by ABC News and another caught on film by a news team from KTVU in San Francisco, apparently were done with the benefit of a warrant. The KTVU news footage has become infamous, because it shows members of the California Highway Patrol, working with Louisiana State Police, going into the home of a woman identified as Patricia Konie. Armed with a small-caliber revolver, Konie asked the officers to leave her home. Instead, she was tackled by two of them and disarmed, then led from the house, put on a military truck and taken to the New Orleans Convention Center—scene of reported rapes and murders—for evacuation. Her current whereabouts is still unknown as this issue goes to press. Both Gottlieb and LaPierre told Gun Week that the situation was so outrageous that they had no alternative to taking direct action. “New Orleans officials left us with no recourse,” Gottlieb observed. “It was bad enough that Big Easy residents were victims of the worst natural disaster in the nation’s history. That they would be subsequently victimized by their own local government, taking their personal property without warrant, is unconscionable.” “At a time of chaos,” LaPierre noted, “the very underpinning of a citizen’s right to survive (was seized). . . . The last time law-abiding citizens were disarmed, it was done by King George, and that didn’t work for him, either.” ---------------------------------------------------------- I have volumes of this stuff from very credible sources and many from the NRA, but most of you lefties don't consider them credible. THE COURTS DO! i dont like quoting all the text in this post, because i have no attention span to read any long posts unless i actually take great interest in it, but i read all of it and this absolutely disgusts me.......... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #22 March 21, 2006 TYVM it was worth the reading and I am tired of people disputing FACT with nothing more than hyperbole and yes silence is golden, whenever you have it, and however you achieve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #23 March 22, 2006 We've had four people at this point vote that the police acted correctly to seize firearms from lawful people. And the only explanation for that vote, has been from someone who believes that (paraphrasing) in those circumstances everyone should be treated like a criminal. Is that the best argument you anti-gun folks have to justify this action? Who amongst those four has the guts to step forward here and explain the justification for your vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unformed 0 #24 March 22, 2006 It is imperative for the safety of the public that in times of crisis that weapons be removed from the public. Yes it is treating everyone like a criminal, but it is for the better good of the public. However, now that the crisis is taken care of, the guns should be returned to their rightful owners.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #25 March 22, 2006 I bet one or two of the 4 did it just to piss you off, John. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Andy9o8 2 #17 March 21, 2006 QuoteThe Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house... Source citation, please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #18 March 21, 2006 New Orleans under fire for gun swap with Glock The gun swap was approved by the New Orleans City Council and signed by the mayor City among first to sue gun industry January 29, 1999 Web posted at: 1:00 p.m. EST (1800 GMT) In this story: What if swapped weapons are used in crimes? Traded guns not to be sold in Louisiana Related stories NEW ORLEANS (CNN) -- Officials in the Crescent City are under fire for their February 1998 decision -- made public this week -- to trade thousands of confiscated weapons and old service pistols for new guns for city police. Police traded 7,200 confiscated weapons and old 9 mm pistols for about 1,700 new Glock .40-caliber weapons. The deal was sanctioned by the New Orleans City Council and signed by Mayor Marc Morial. But New Orleans residents weren't aware of the gun swap until Thursday, when Morial and an official from gun maker Glock Inc. faced off in a broadcast interview on government lawsuits against the gun industry. The interview was conducted on NBC's "Today" show. During a heated debate, Paul Jannuzzo, Glock's vice president and general counsel, publicly accused Morial and New Orleans of hypocrisy for putting weapons back into the commercial marketplace while simultaneously suing the gun industry. What if swapped weapons are used in crimes? Under the deal, none of the swapped guns are to be sold in Louisiana Last year, New Orleans and Chicago became the first cities to sue the industry for allegedly not doing enough to curb gun violence. Bridgeport, Connecticut, and Miami-Dade County, Florida, this week filed similar lawsuits. The Metropolitan Crime Commission of New Orleans, a private watchdog group, said the city could find itself the target of a lawsuit, if one of the traded weapons were used in a crime. "To learn that the city has exported 7,000 guns seized from street criminals to other parts of the country is really mind-boggling and the height of hypocrisy," said Rafael Goyeneche, president of the commission. BACKGROUND CNN's Allan Dodds Frank examines the municipal movement against guns (Windows: 28K 80K) Targeting guns at the source GUNS AND THE LAW At a Glance Interactive Timeline INTERACTIVE MAPS Cities vs. Guns Gun laws by state MESSAGE BOARD Who's responsible for gun violence? POLL Should gun manufacturers be held liable for gun violence? Yes No Sometimes or View Results Traded guns not to be sold in Louisiana Under the deal, the swapped guns are not to be resold in Louisiana, but New Orleans police admit there is no guarantee that some of the weapons won't make their way back into the state. The guns are expected to be sold through a federally licensed dealer to people who meet legal standards, Deputy Police Superintendent Duane Johnson said during a news conference on Thursday. "We have an obligation to the people of New Orleans and our officers to give them the most technologically advanced equipment possible," Johnson said, defending the decision. Johnson The officer said he expects many of the guns will be used for parts, and that remaining pieces will be destroyed. Linda McDonald, who heads the city's chapter of Parents of Murdered Children, said officials should track down the traded weapons, buy them and destroy them. "The people of the city were under the impression they were doing away with these guns," McDonald said. "There's no assurance these guns will not come back here, and even if they don't, they will be used to kill people in other areas." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #19 March 21, 2006 Homeowners' guns confiscated in New Orleans, police threaten evacuation by force by Don Babwin, Associated Press Sept. 9, 2005 [Day 12] NEW ORLEANS -- Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later. As many as 10,000 people were believed to be stubbornly staying put in the city, despite Katrina's filthy, corpse-strewn floodwaters and orders from Mayor Ray Nagin earlier this week to leave or be removed by force. By midmorning, though, there were no immediate reports of anyone being taken out forcibly, police said. Police are "not going to do that until we absolutely have to. We really don't want to do that at all," Deputy Chief Warren Riley said. Some residents who had previously refused to leave -- whether because they wanted to protect their homes from looters, they did not want to leave their pets behind, or they simply feared the unknown -- are now changing their minds and asking to be rescued, police said. "They realize they're not going to this awful situation like the Superdome or the Convention Center," Riley said. "As days go by, it seems less and less likely that we'll have to force anyone." He added: "I don't know of any incidents where people are being belligerent." Some residents said they left under extreme pressure. "They were all insisting that I had to leave my home," said Shelia Dalferes, who said she had 15 minutes to pack before she and her husband were evacuated. "The implication was there with their plastic handcuffs on their belt. Who wants to go out like that?" Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Jason Rule said his crew pulled 18 people from their homes Thursday. He said some of the holdouts did not want to leave unless they could take their pets. "It's getting to the point where they're delirious," Rule said. "A couple of them don't know who they were. They think the water will go down in a few days." Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go. "Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery. The floodwaters are slowly receding, but the task of gathering rotting corpses and clearing debris is certain to take months. Police went door-to-door checking for bodies or anyone in need of rescue. Houses where corpses were found were marked so that authorities could go back later. The mayor has said the death toll in New Orleans alone could be 10,000, and state officials have ordered 25,000 body bags. At two collection sites, federal mortuary teams gathered information that might help identify the bodies, such as where they were found. Personal effects were also being logged. At a temporary morgue set up in nearby St. Gabriel, where 67 bodies had been collected by Thursday, the remains were being photographed and forensic workers hoped to use dental X-rays, fingerprints and DNA to identify them. Dr. Bryan Patucci, coroner of St. Bernard Parish, said it may be impossible to identify all the victims until authorities compile a final list of missing people. Decaying corpses in the floodwaters could pose problems for engineers who are desperately trying to pump the city dry. While 37 of the 174 pumps in the New Orleans area were working and 17 portable pumps were in place Thursday, officials said the mammoth undertaking could be complicated by corpses getting clogged in the pumps. "It's got a huge focus of our attention right now," said John Rickey of the Army Corps of Engineers. "Those remains are people's loved ones." Some 400,000 homes in the city were still without power, with no immediate prospect of getting it back. And fires continued to be a problem. At least 11 blazes burned across the city Thursday. Three buildings were destroyed at historically black Dillard University. Also Thursday, Congress rushed through an additional $51.8 billion for Katrina relief, and President Bush pledged to make it "easy and simple as possible" for uprooted storm victims to collect food stamps and other government benefits. To counter criticism of the slow federal response to the disaster, Vice President Dick Cheney toured parts of the ravaged Gulf Coast, claiming significant progress but acknowledging immense obstacles remained to a full recovery. Meanwhile, Democrats threatened to boycott the naming of a panel that Republican leaders are proposing to investigate the administration's readiness and response to the storm. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said it was like a baseball pitcher calling "his own balls and strikes." Democrats have urged the appointment of an independent panel like the Sept. 11 commission. As originally published Quote SAF-NRA Lawsuit Halts NO Gun Grab by Dave Workman Senior Editor The National Rifle Association (NRA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) marched into federal court last month in Baton Rouge, LA, and came out with a stunning victory that put a stop to gun confiscations by police and National Guard units brought in to restore order to New Orleans and surrounding parishes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. A lawsuit filed in US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana successfully won a temporary restraining order (TRO), signed by Judge Jay Zainey. The order required an end to the seizures, and also the prompt return of confiscated firearms. The victory came as a prelude to the 20th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in Los Angeles—coverage of which will begin in the Oct. 20 Gun Week—and dominated discussions there. SAF founder Alan Gottlieb called the judge’s order “a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gunowners everywhere.” “We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions,” Gottlieb said. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told Gun Week that the decision “sends a strong signal that if anybody dares confiscation, they will find themselves in court.” LaPierre was visibly angry about the gun seizures. “For the first time in America, peaceable citizens who were trying to protect themselves from looters, were disarmed at gun point,” he stressed. He accused New Orleans authorities of “participating in the theft of property.” Gun Week learned that almost immediately after Zainey issued the TRO, the sheriff in St. Tammany Parish announced he would return all confiscated guns. Firearms were reportedly returned to Buell O. Teel, one of the individual plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Gunowners across the nation became furious when police—many of them from outside jurisdictions who had come to the Crescent City to help restore order—and National Guardsmen began confiscating guns after New Orleans Police Chief P. Edwin Compass III told reporters, “Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,” and ABC News quoted Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley stating, “No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons.” In court documents, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Compass and another defendant, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain, denied they had ordered the firearms seizures. However, statements by Compass and Riley were enough to counter that claim. When word got out from the New Orleans area that guns were being confiscated, Gottlieb immediately demanded an explanation. “Our inquiries about these confiscations were cavalierly ignored,” he said, “as were our demands for a public explanation from the police and city officials about why citizens were being unlawfully disarmed, leaving them defenseless against lingering bands of looters and thugs.” Working with Virginia attorney Stephen Halbrook, a nationally-recognized Second Amendment expert, Baton Rouge attorney Daniel Holliday, NRA and SAF sent investigators into the storm-ravaged New Orleans area to find and contact citizens whose guns had been confiscated. In the process, investigators discovered that citizens whose firearms had been taken were not being given receipts for their property, thus creating a situation where it could be almost impossible for many gunowners to ever recover their guns because they might be unable to verify ownership. Gun Week learned of one man who had 14 firearms seized, apparently by St. Tammany officers and National Guardsmen. This individual apparently was given a receipt, and was allegedly told that he would get his guns back, “hopefully in two to three months.” The man subsequently contacted a New Orleans police officer who apparently told him that St. Tammany officers had no jurisdiction in New Orleans, nor any right to seize his firearms. When the man then contacted St. Tammany police, demanding the return of his firearms, authorities allegedly refused. Both SAF and NRA had condemned what amounted to the warrantless searches of residences, and in a couple of cases, boats on Lake Pontchartrain, and seizures of all firearms. Incredibly, in at least one case caught on film by an ABC News camera crew, soldiers with the visiting Oklahoma National Guard placed two people in handcuffs, took their firearms, and then released them to remain in the city, which at the time was in chaos, with gangs of roving thugs, and packs of hungry dogs posing equal dangers. In that video, a guardsman identified as Fred Bible, observed, “It’s surreal. You never expect to do this in your own country.” In another scene, guardsman Chris Montgomery acknowledged that he was uncomfortable with the prospect that he might have to open fire on an American citizen as his unit was trying to force people to evacuate. As word of the confiscations spread, gun rights activists flooded Internet chat groups with comments ranging from disbelief to disgust. A few opined that gun rights organizations like SAF and NRA had been vindicated after years of warnings that arbitrary gun confiscations could happen in emergency situations, leaving people defenseless. The joint NRA-SAF investigation discovered one incident involving Teel, a resident of St. Tammany Parish, whose boat was boarded twice on Lake Pontchartrain, when he was working for the Pala Interstate Company in an effort to find an open path from the north shore of the lake to the New Orleans Industrial Canal. He was stopped by a St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s patrol boat, and in his affidavit, he asserted that there were five officers on board, four in uniform, and that they identified themselves as members of the New York First Response Team assigned to St. Tammany Parish. Gun Week has learned that about 180 New York City police officers had traveled to the area following the hurricane to help put down the anarchy and looting that followed. Teel said that the officers asked whether there were firearms aboard, and he told them that he had two rifles, a Browning chambered in .270 Winchester and a Savage chambered in 7mm Magnum. While two of the New York officers kept him covered with rifles, two other officers boarded his boat, searched it and took Teel’s rifles, while the fifth man refused to give him a receipt for the guns. They only told him the guns would be taken to the St. Tammany Parish courthouse where he could get them later. The officers apparently told Teel the guns were being seized under cover of some Parish ordinance, but he does not recall a specific cite. In only one case where firearms were taken was there apparently a warrant issued, and that was in the case of a search, conducted by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In that case, ATF took guns that were part of a collection of World War I and World War II military firearms, and subsequently advised the owner where the guns were, and that they would be returned to him promptly when he is able to either return to his home or establish some other residence and storage accommodations. None of the other seizures, including the one filmed by ABC News and another caught on film by a news team from KTVU in San Francisco, apparently were done with the benefit of a warrant. The KTVU news footage has become infamous, because it shows members of the California Highway Patrol, working with Louisiana State Police, going into the home of a woman identified as Patricia Konie. Armed with a small-caliber revolver, Konie asked the officers to leave her home. Instead, she was tackled by two of them and disarmed, then led from the house, put on a military truck and taken to the New Orleans Convention Center—scene of reported rapes and murders—for evacuation. Her current whereabouts is still unknown as this issue goes to press. Both Gottlieb and LaPierre told Gun Week that the situation was so outrageous that they had no alternative to taking direct action. “New Orleans officials left us with no recourse,” Gottlieb observed. “It was bad enough that Big Easy residents were victims of the worst natural disaster in the nation’s history. That they would be subsequently victimized by their own local government, taking their personal property without warrant, is unconscionable.” “At a time of chaos,” LaPierre noted, “the very underpinning of a citizen’s right to survive (was seized). . . . The last time law-abiding citizens were disarmed, it was done by King George, and that didn’t work for him, either.” ---------------------------------------------------------- I have volumes of this stuff from very credible sources and many from the NRA, but most of you lefties don't consider them credible. THE COURTS DO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #20 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house... Source citation, please? Oh, and in the future please feel free to question whether or not I have sources for the postion I have stated.I can assure you right now that no topic will be off limits. Would you care for more citations and sources at this time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyPsycho 0 #21 March 21, 2006 QuoteHomeowners' guns confiscated in New Orleans, police threaten evacuation by force by Don Babwin, Associated Press Sept. 9, 2005 [Day 12] NEW ORLEANS -- Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later. As many as 10,000 people were believed to be stubbornly staying put in the city, despite Katrina's filthy, corpse-strewn floodwaters and orders from Mayor Ray Nagin earlier this week to leave or be removed by force. By midmorning, though, there were no immediate reports of anyone being taken out forcibly, police said. Police are "not going to do that until we absolutely have to. We really don't want to do that at all," Deputy Chief Warren Riley said. Some residents who had previously refused to leave -- whether because they wanted to protect their homes from looters, they did not want to leave their pets behind, or they simply feared the unknown -- are now changing their minds and asking to be rescued, police said. "They realize they're not going to this awful situation like the Superdome or the Convention Center," Riley said. "As days go by, it seems less and less likely that we'll have to force anyone." He added: "I don't know of any incidents where people are being belligerent." Some residents said they left under extreme pressure. "They were all insisting that I had to leave my home," said Shelia Dalferes, who said she had 15 minutes to pack before she and her husband were evacuated. "The implication was there with their plastic handcuffs on their belt. Who wants to go out like that?" Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Jason Rule said his crew pulled 18 people from their homes Thursday. He said some of the holdouts did not want to leave unless they could take their pets. "It's getting to the point where they're delirious," Rule said. "A couple of them don't know who they were. They think the water will go down in a few days." Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go. "Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery. The floodwaters are slowly receding, but the task of gathering rotting corpses and clearing debris is certain to take months. Police went door-to-door checking for bodies or anyone in need of rescue. Houses where corpses were found were marked so that authorities could go back later. The mayor has said the death toll in New Orleans alone could be 10,000, and state officials have ordered 25,000 body bags. At two collection sites, federal mortuary teams gathered information that might help identify the bodies, such as where they were found. Personal effects were also being logged. At a temporary morgue set up in nearby St. Gabriel, where 67 bodies had been collected by Thursday, the remains were being photographed and forensic workers hoped to use dental X-rays, fingerprints and DNA to identify them. Dr. Bryan Patucci, coroner of St. Bernard Parish, said it may be impossible to identify all the victims until authorities compile a final list of missing people. Decaying corpses in the floodwaters could pose problems for engineers who are desperately trying to pump the city dry. While 37 of the 174 pumps in the New Orleans area were working and 17 portable pumps were in place Thursday, officials said the mammoth undertaking could be complicated by corpses getting clogged in the pumps. "It's got a huge focus of our attention right now," said John Rickey of the Army Corps of Engineers. "Those remains are people's loved ones." Some 400,000 homes in the city were still without power, with no immediate prospect of getting it back. And fires continued to be a problem. At least 11 blazes burned across the city Thursday. Three buildings were destroyed at historically black Dillard University. Also Thursday, Congress rushed through an additional $51.8 billion for Katrina relief, and President Bush pledged to make it "easy and simple as possible" for uprooted storm victims to collect food stamps and other government benefits. To counter criticism of the slow federal response to the disaster, Vice President Dick Cheney toured parts of the ravaged Gulf Coast, claiming significant progress but acknowledging immense obstacles remained to a full recovery. Meanwhile, Democrats threatened to boycott the naming of a panel that Republican leaders are proposing to investigate the administration's readiness and response to the storm. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said it was like a baseball pitcher calling "his own balls and strikes." Democrats have urged the appointment of an independent panel like the Sept. 11 commission. As originally published Quote SAF-NRA Lawsuit Halts NO Gun Grab by Dave Workman Senior Editor The National Rifle Association (NRA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) marched into federal court last month in Baton Rouge, LA, and came out with a stunning victory that put a stop to gun confiscations by police and National Guard units brought in to restore order to New Orleans and surrounding parishes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. A lawsuit filed in US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana successfully won a temporary restraining order (TRO), signed by Judge Jay Zainey. The order required an end to the seizures, and also the prompt return of confiscated firearms. The victory came as a prelude to the 20th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in Los Angeles—coverage of which will begin in the Oct. 20 Gun Week—and dominated discussions there. SAF founder Alan Gottlieb called the judge’s order “a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gunowners everywhere.” “We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions,” Gottlieb said. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told Gun Week that the decision “sends a strong signal that if anybody dares confiscation, they will find themselves in court.” LaPierre was visibly angry about the gun seizures. “For the first time in America, peaceable citizens who were trying to protect themselves from looters, were disarmed at gun point,” he stressed. He accused New Orleans authorities of “participating in the theft of property.” Gun Week learned that almost immediately after Zainey issued the TRO, the sheriff in St. Tammany Parish announced he would return all confiscated guns. Firearms were reportedly returned to Buell O. Teel, one of the individual plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Gunowners across the nation became furious when police—many of them from outside jurisdictions who had come to the Crescent City to help restore order—and National Guardsmen began confiscating guns after New Orleans Police Chief P. Edwin Compass III told reporters, “Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,” and ABC News quoted Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley stating, “No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons.” In court documents, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Compass and another defendant, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain, denied they had ordered the firearms seizures. However, statements by Compass and Riley were enough to counter that claim. When word got out from the New Orleans area that guns were being confiscated, Gottlieb immediately demanded an explanation. “Our inquiries about these confiscations were cavalierly ignored,” he said, “as were our demands for a public explanation from the police and city officials about why citizens were being unlawfully disarmed, leaving them defenseless against lingering bands of looters and thugs.” Working with Virginia attorney Stephen Halbrook, a nationally-recognized Second Amendment expert, Baton Rouge attorney Daniel Holliday, NRA and SAF sent investigators into the storm-ravaged New Orleans area to find and contact citizens whose guns had been confiscated. In the process, investigators discovered that citizens whose firearms had been taken were not being given receipts for their property, thus creating a situation where it could be almost impossible for many gunowners to ever recover their guns because they might be unable to verify ownership. Gun Week learned of one man who had 14 firearms seized, apparently by St. Tammany officers and National Guardsmen. This individual apparently was given a receipt, and was allegedly told that he would get his guns back, “hopefully in two to three months.” The man subsequently contacted a New Orleans police officer who apparently told him that St. Tammany officers had no jurisdiction in New Orleans, nor any right to seize his firearms. When the man then contacted St. Tammany police, demanding the return of his firearms, authorities allegedly refused. Both SAF and NRA had condemned what amounted to the warrantless searches of residences, and in a couple of cases, boats on Lake Pontchartrain, and seizures of all firearms. Incredibly, in at least one case caught on film by an ABC News camera crew, soldiers with the visiting Oklahoma National Guard placed two people in handcuffs, took their firearms, and then released them to remain in the city, which at the time was in chaos, with gangs of roving thugs, and packs of hungry dogs posing equal dangers. In that video, a guardsman identified as Fred Bible, observed, “It’s surreal. You never expect to do this in your own country.” In another scene, guardsman Chris Montgomery acknowledged that he was uncomfortable with the prospect that he might have to open fire on an American citizen as his unit was trying to force people to evacuate. As word of the confiscations spread, gun rights activists flooded Internet chat groups with comments ranging from disbelief to disgust. A few opined that gun rights organizations like SAF and NRA had been vindicated after years of warnings that arbitrary gun confiscations could happen in emergency situations, leaving people defenseless. The joint NRA-SAF investigation discovered one incident involving Teel, a resident of St. Tammany Parish, whose boat was boarded twice on Lake Pontchartrain, when he was working for the Pala Interstate Company in an effort to find an open path from the north shore of the lake to the New Orleans Industrial Canal. He was stopped by a St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s patrol boat, and in his affidavit, he asserted that there were five officers on board, four in uniform, and that they identified themselves as members of the New York First Response Team assigned to St. Tammany Parish. Gun Week has learned that about 180 New York City police officers had traveled to the area following the hurricane to help put down the anarchy and looting that followed. Teel said that the officers asked whether there were firearms aboard, and he told them that he had two rifles, a Browning chambered in .270 Winchester and a Savage chambered in 7mm Magnum. While two of the New York officers kept him covered with rifles, two other officers boarded his boat, searched it and took Teel’s rifles, while the fifth man refused to give him a receipt for the guns. They only told him the guns would be taken to the St. Tammany Parish courthouse where he could get them later. The officers apparently told Teel the guns were being seized under cover of some Parish ordinance, but he does not recall a specific cite. In only one case where firearms were taken was there apparently a warrant issued, and that was in the case of a search, conducted by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In that case, ATF took guns that were part of a collection of World War I and World War II military firearms, and subsequently advised the owner where the guns were, and that they would be returned to him promptly when he is able to either return to his home or establish some other residence and storage accommodations. None of the other seizures, including the one filmed by ABC News and another caught on film by a news team from KTVU in San Francisco, apparently were done with the benefit of a warrant. The KTVU news footage has become infamous, because it shows members of the California Highway Patrol, working with Louisiana State Police, going into the home of a woman identified as Patricia Konie. Armed with a small-caliber revolver, Konie asked the officers to leave her home. Instead, she was tackled by two of them and disarmed, then led from the house, put on a military truck and taken to the New Orleans Convention Center—scene of reported rapes and murders—for evacuation. Her current whereabouts is still unknown as this issue goes to press. Both Gottlieb and LaPierre told Gun Week that the situation was so outrageous that they had no alternative to taking direct action. “New Orleans officials left us with no recourse,” Gottlieb observed. “It was bad enough that Big Easy residents were victims of the worst natural disaster in the nation’s history. That they would be subsequently victimized by their own local government, taking their personal property without warrant, is unconscionable.” “At a time of chaos,” LaPierre noted, “the very underpinning of a citizen’s right to survive (was seized). . . . The last time law-abiding citizens were disarmed, it was done by King George, and that didn’t work for him, either.” ---------------------------------------------------------- I have volumes of this stuff from very credible sources and many from the NRA, but most of you lefties don't consider them credible. THE COURTS DO! i dont like quoting all the text in this post, because i have no attention span to read any long posts unless i actually take great interest in it, but i read all of it and this absolutely disgusts me.......... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #22 March 21, 2006 TYVM it was worth the reading and I am tired of people disputing FACT with nothing more than hyperbole and yes silence is golden, whenever you have it, and however you achieve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #23 March 22, 2006 We've had four people at this point vote that the police acted correctly to seize firearms from lawful people. And the only explanation for that vote, has been from someone who believes that (paraphrasing) in those circumstances everyone should be treated like a criminal. Is that the best argument you anti-gun folks have to justify this action? Who amongst those four has the guts to step forward here and explain the justification for your vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unformed 0 #24 March 22, 2006 It is imperative for the safety of the public that in times of crisis that weapons be removed from the public. Yes it is treating everyone like a criminal, but it is for the better good of the public. However, now that the crisis is taken care of, the guns should be returned to their rightful owners.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #25 March 22, 2006 I bet one or two of the 4 did it just to piss you off, John. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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warpedskydiver 0 #20 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Police went to homes that were occupied and conficated them from the owners at gunpoint in many cases. When they did get them from an evacuated home they actually searched the entire house... Source citation, please? Oh, and in the future please feel free to question whether or not I have sources for the postion I have stated.I can assure you right now that no topic will be off limits. Would you care for more citations and sources at this time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #21 March 21, 2006 QuoteHomeowners' guns confiscated in New Orleans, police threaten evacuation by force by Don Babwin, Associated Press Sept. 9, 2005 [Day 12] NEW ORLEANS -- Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later. As many as 10,000 people were believed to be stubbornly staying put in the city, despite Katrina's filthy, corpse-strewn floodwaters and orders from Mayor Ray Nagin earlier this week to leave or be removed by force. By midmorning, though, there were no immediate reports of anyone being taken out forcibly, police said. Police are "not going to do that until we absolutely have to. We really don't want to do that at all," Deputy Chief Warren Riley said. Some residents who had previously refused to leave -- whether because they wanted to protect their homes from looters, they did not want to leave their pets behind, or they simply feared the unknown -- are now changing their minds and asking to be rescued, police said. "They realize they're not going to this awful situation like the Superdome or the Convention Center," Riley said. "As days go by, it seems less and less likely that we'll have to force anyone." He added: "I don't know of any incidents where people are being belligerent." Some residents said they left under extreme pressure. "They were all insisting that I had to leave my home," said Shelia Dalferes, who said she had 15 minutes to pack before she and her husband were evacuated. "The implication was there with their plastic handcuffs on their belt. Who wants to go out like that?" Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Jason Rule said his crew pulled 18 people from their homes Thursday. He said some of the holdouts did not want to leave unless they could take their pets. "It's getting to the point where they're delirious," Rule said. "A couple of them don't know who they were. They think the water will go down in a few days." Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go. "Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery. The floodwaters are slowly receding, but the task of gathering rotting corpses and clearing debris is certain to take months. Police went door-to-door checking for bodies or anyone in need of rescue. Houses where corpses were found were marked so that authorities could go back later. The mayor has said the death toll in New Orleans alone could be 10,000, and state officials have ordered 25,000 body bags. At two collection sites, federal mortuary teams gathered information that might help identify the bodies, such as where they were found. Personal effects were also being logged. At a temporary morgue set up in nearby St. Gabriel, where 67 bodies had been collected by Thursday, the remains were being photographed and forensic workers hoped to use dental X-rays, fingerprints and DNA to identify them. Dr. Bryan Patucci, coroner of St. Bernard Parish, said it may be impossible to identify all the victims until authorities compile a final list of missing people. Decaying corpses in the floodwaters could pose problems for engineers who are desperately trying to pump the city dry. While 37 of the 174 pumps in the New Orleans area were working and 17 portable pumps were in place Thursday, officials said the mammoth undertaking could be complicated by corpses getting clogged in the pumps. "It's got a huge focus of our attention right now," said John Rickey of the Army Corps of Engineers. "Those remains are people's loved ones." Some 400,000 homes in the city were still without power, with no immediate prospect of getting it back. And fires continued to be a problem. At least 11 blazes burned across the city Thursday. Three buildings were destroyed at historically black Dillard University. Also Thursday, Congress rushed through an additional $51.8 billion for Katrina relief, and President Bush pledged to make it "easy and simple as possible" for uprooted storm victims to collect food stamps and other government benefits. To counter criticism of the slow federal response to the disaster, Vice President Dick Cheney toured parts of the ravaged Gulf Coast, claiming significant progress but acknowledging immense obstacles remained to a full recovery. Meanwhile, Democrats threatened to boycott the naming of a panel that Republican leaders are proposing to investigate the administration's readiness and response to the storm. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said it was like a baseball pitcher calling "his own balls and strikes." Democrats have urged the appointment of an independent panel like the Sept. 11 commission. As originally published Quote SAF-NRA Lawsuit Halts NO Gun Grab by Dave Workman Senior Editor The National Rifle Association (NRA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) marched into federal court last month in Baton Rouge, LA, and came out with a stunning victory that put a stop to gun confiscations by police and National Guard units brought in to restore order to New Orleans and surrounding parishes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. A lawsuit filed in US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana successfully won a temporary restraining order (TRO), signed by Judge Jay Zainey. The order required an end to the seizures, and also the prompt return of confiscated firearms. The victory came as a prelude to the 20th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in Los Angeles—coverage of which will begin in the Oct. 20 Gun Week—and dominated discussions there. SAF founder Alan Gottlieb called the judge’s order “a great victory, not just for the NRA and SAF, but primarily for law-abiding gunowners everywhere.” “We are proud to have joined forces with the NRA to put an end to what has amounted to a warrantless gun grab by authorities in New Orleans and surrounding jurisdictions,” Gottlieb said. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told Gun Week that the decision “sends a strong signal that if anybody dares confiscation, they will find themselves in court.” LaPierre was visibly angry about the gun seizures. “For the first time in America, peaceable citizens who were trying to protect themselves from looters, were disarmed at gun point,” he stressed. He accused New Orleans authorities of “participating in the theft of property.” Gun Week learned that almost immediately after Zainey issued the TRO, the sheriff in St. Tammany Parish announced he would return all confiscated guns. Firearms were reportedly returned to Buell O. Teel, one of the individual plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Gunowners across the nation became furious when police—many of them from outside jurisdictions who had come to the Crescent City to help restore order—and National Guardsmen began confiscating guns after New Orleans Police Chief P. Edwin Compass III told reporters, “Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,” and ABC News quoted Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley stating, “No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons.” In court documents, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Compass and another defendant, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain, denied they had ordered the firearms seizures. However, statements by Compass and Riley were enough to counter that claim. When word got out from the New Orleans area that guns were being confiscated, Gottlieb immediately demanded an explanation. “Our inquiries about these confiscations were cavalierly ignored,” he said, “as were our demands for a public explanation from the police and city officials about why citizens were being unlawfully disarmed, leaving them defenseless against lingering bands of looters and thugs.” Working with Virginia attorney Stephen Halbrook, a nationally-recognized Second Amendment expert, Baton Rouge attorney Daniel Holliday, NRA and SAF sent investigators into the storm-ravaged New Orleans area to find and contact citizens whose guns had been confiscated. In the process, investigators discovered that citizens whose firearms had been taken were not being given receipts for their property, thus creating a situation where it could be almost impossible for many gunowners to ever recover their guns because they might be unable to verify ownership. Gun Week learned of one man who had 14 firearms seized, apparently by St. Tammany officers and National Guardsmen. This individual apparently was given a receipt, and was allegedly told that he would get his guns back, “hopefully in two to three months.” The man subsequently contacted a New Orleans police officer who apparently told him that St. Tammany officers had no jurisdiction in New Orleans, nor any right to seize his firearms. When the man then contacted St. Tammany police, demanding the return of his firearms, authorities allegedly refused. Both SAF and NRA had condemned what amounted to the warrantless searches of residences, and in a couple of cases, boats on Lake Pontchartrain, and seizures of all firearms. Incredibly, in at least one case caught on film by an ABC News camera crew, soldiers with the visiting Oklahoma National Guard placed two people in handcuffs, took their firearms, and then released them to remain in the city, which at the time was in chaos, with gangs of roving thugs, and packs of hungry dogs posing equal dangers. In that video, a guardsman identified as Fred Bible, observed, “It’s surreal. You never expect to do this in your own country.” In another scene, guardsman Chris Montgomery acknowledged that he was uncomfortable with the prospect that he might have to open fire on an American citizen as his unit was trying to force people to evacuate. As word of the confiscations spread, gun rights activists flooded Internet chat groups with comments ranging from disbelief to disgust. A few opined that gun rights organizations like SAF and NRA had been vindicated after years of warnings that arbitrary gun confiscations could happen in emergency situations, leaving people defenseless. The joint NRA-SAF investigation discovered one incident involving Teel, a resident of St. Tammany Parish, whose boat was boarded twice on Lake Pontchartrain, when he was working for the Pala Interstate Company in an effort to find an open path from the north shore of the lake to the New Orleans Industrial Canal. He was stopped by a St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s patrol boat, and in his affidavit, he asserted that there were five officers on board, four in uniform, and that they identified themselves as members of the New York First Response Team assigned to St. Tammany Parish. Gun Week has learned that about 180 New York City police officers had traveled to the area following the hurricane to help put down the anarchy and looting that followed. Teel said that the officers asked whether there were firearms aboard, and he told them that he had two rifles, a Browning chambered in .270 Winchester and a Savage chambered in 7mm Magnum. While two of the New York officers kept him covered with rifles, two other officers boarded his boat, searched it and took Teel’s rifles, while the fifth man refused to give him a receipt for the guns. They only told him the guns would be taken to the St. Tammany Parish courthouse where he could get them later. The officers apparently told Teel the guns were being seized under cover of some Parish ordinance, but he does not recall a specific cite. In only one case where firearms were taken was there apparently a warrant issued, and that was in the case of a search, conducted by agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In that case, ATF took guns that were part of a collection of World War I and World War II military firearms, and subsequently advised the owner where the guns were, and that they would be returned to him promptly when he is able to either return to his home or establish some other residence and storage accommodations. None of the other seizures, including the one filmed by ABC News and another caught on film by a news team from KTVU in San Francisco, apparently were done with the benefit of a warrant. The KTVU news footage has become infamous, because it shows members of the California Highway Patrol, working with Louisiana State Police, going into the home of a woman identified as Patricia Konie. Armed with a small-caliber revolver, Konie asked the officers to leave her home. Instead, she was tackled by two of them and disarmed, then led from the house, put on a military truck and taken to the New Orleans Convention Center—scene of reported rapes and murders—for evacuation. Her current whereabouts is still unknown as this issue goes to press. Both Gottlieb and LaPierre told Gun Week that the situation was so outrageous that they had no alternative to taking direct action. “New Orleans officials left us with no recourse,” Gottlieb observed. “It was bad enough that Big Easy residents were victims of the worst natural disaster in the nation’s history. That they would be subsequently victimized by their own local government, taking their personal property without warrant, is unconscionable.” “At a time of chaos,” LaPierre noted, “the very underpinning of a citizen’s right to survive (was seized). . . . The last time law-abiding citizens were disarmed, it was done by King George, and that didn’t work for him, either.” ---------------------------------------------------------- I have volumes of this stuff from very credible sources and many from the NRA, but most of you lefties don't consider them credible. THE COURTS DO! i dont like quoting all the text in this post, because i have no attention span to read any long posts unless i actually take great interest in it, but i read all of it and this absolutely disgusts me.......... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #22 March 21, 2006 TYVM it was worth the reading and I am tired of people disputing FACT with nothing more than hyperbole and yes silence is golden, whenever you have it, and however you achieve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #23 March 22, 2006 We've had four people at this point vote that the police acted correctly to seize firearms from lawful people. And the only explanation for that vote, has been from someone who believes that (paraphrasing) in those circumstances everyone should be treated like a criminal. Is that the best argument you anti-gun folks have to justify this action? Who amongst those four has the guts to step forward here and explain the justification for your vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unformed 0 #24 March 22, 2006 It is imperative for the safety of the public that in times of crisis that weapons be removed from the public. Yes it is treating everyone like a criminal, but it is for the better good of the public. However, now that the crisis is taken care of, the guns should be returned to their rightful owners.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #25 March 22, 2006 I bet one or two of the 4 did it just to piss you off, John. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
warpedskydiver 0 #22 March 21, 2006 TYVM it was worth the reading and I am tired of people disputing FACT with nothing more than hyperbole and yes silence is golden, whenever you have it, and however you achieve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 March 22, 2006 We've had four people at this point vote that the police acted correctly to seize firearms from lawful people. And the only explanation for that vote, has been from someone who believes that (paraphrasing) in those circumstances everyone should be treated like a criminal. Is that the best argument you anti-gun folks have to justify this action? Who amongst those four has the guts to step forward here and explain the justification for your vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #24 March 22, 2006 It is imperative for the safety of the public that in times of crisis that weapons be removed from the public. Yes it is treating everyone like a criminal, but it is for the better good of the public. However, now that the crisis is taken care of, the guns should be returned to their rightful owners.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #25 March 22, 2006 I bet one or two of the 4 did it just to piss you off, John. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
