kallend 2,148 #26 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut a Christian, Muslim or Jew who truly believes in the 10 Commandments should have no tolerance for non-believers, and Christians certainly should have no tolerance for those who don't believe Jesus was the son of God, since those people are heretics and sinners. Why do you think that? Is this familiar? "V. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #27 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteBut a Christian, Muslim or Jew who truly believes in the 10 Commandments should have no tolerance for non-believers, and Christians certainly should have no tolerance for those who don't believe Jesus was the son of God, since those people are heretics and sinners. Why do you think that? Is this familiar? "V. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" As with everything, the context in which that was written is very important. The passage that your quote follows and is a part of states, "You shall not make for yourself any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Your quote has to do with the sin of idolotry. It has nothing at all to do with hating non-Christians. You can find this information in Exodus, Chapter 20. The condensed version is in my link below. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #28 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut a Christian, Muslim or Jew who truly believes in the 10 Commandments should have no tolerance for non-believers, and Christians certainly should have no tolerance for those who don't believe Jesus was the son of God, since those people are heretics and sinners. Why do you think that? Is this familiar? "V. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" As with everything, the context in which that was written is very important. The passage that your quote follows and is a part of states, "You shall not make for yourself any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Your quote has to do with the sin of idolotry. It has nothing at all to do with hating non-Christians. You can find this information in Exodus, Chapter 20. The condensed version is in my link below. I know where to find it, thank you. What about the bit that says "...no other God but me..." Why exclude that as "context"? Being selective, aren't you. It's very clear in both Old and New Testaments that, for example, a Hindu is not destined for heaven, so where exactly does one end up according to Christianity?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #29 March 21, 2006 Quote"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Now tell me how a Hindu avoids spending eternity in Hell. By accepting forgiveness, by God's grace, through faith in Jesus and repentance of sin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #30 March 21, 2006 QuoteI know where to find it, thank you. I'm really not trying to be an ass. QuoteWhat about the bit that says "...no other God but me..." Why exclude that as "context"? Being selective, aren't you. You quoted "part" of the 2nd Commandment. I just filled in the gap to make clear what the passage intended to say. Maybe I'm missing something. I thought you were trying to use that to support your notion that Christians should hate or not tolerate non-Christians. Your quote above is the 1st Commandment. What are you trying to say? QuoteIt's very clear in both Old and New Testaments that, for example, a Hindu is not destined for heaven, so where exactly does one end up according to Christianity? Quote"No one will go to hell because they haven't heard of Jesus Christ. The heathen will go to hell for murder, rape, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc. (e.g. not following God's moral standard) Sin is not failing to hear the gospel. Rather, sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4). If we really care about the lost, we will become missionaries and take the good new of God's forgiveness in Christ to them." The Evidence Bible: Compiled by Ray Comfort Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #31 March 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI know where to find it, thank you. I'm really not trying to be an ass. QuoteWhat about the bit that says "...no other God but me..." Why exclude that as "context"? Being selective, aren't you. You quoted "part" of the 2nd Commandment. I just filled in the gap to make clear what the passage intended to say. Maybe I'm missing something. I thought you were trying to use that to support your notion that Christians should hate or not tolerate non-Christians. Your quote above is the 1st Commandment. What are you trying to say? QuoteIt's very clear in both Old and New Testaments that, for example, a Hindu is not destined for heaven, so where exactly does one end up according to Christianity? Quote"No one will go to hell because they haven't heard of Jesus Christ. The heathen will go to hell for murder, rape, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc. (e.g. not following God's moral standard) Sin is not failing to hear the gospel. Rather, sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4). If we really care about the lost, we will become missionaries and take the good new of God's forgiveness in Christ to them." The Evidence Bible: Compiled by Ray Comfort Well, according to the Gospel, they don't go to Heaven (I think John trumps Ray Comfort on this one) ""I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 So where do they go?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #32 March 21, 2006 QuoteWell, according to the Gospel, they don't go to Heaven (I think John trumps Ray Comfort on this one) ""I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 So where do they go? I wasn't trying to put Ray in front of John. I was trying to answer the question with more than just a one liner. I thought it answered the question, though. They go to hell along with everyone else who transgresses the law without the saving grace of God. A holy God cannot tolerate or be in the presence of sin. A just God must punish transgression of the law else he be a corrupt judge. God will give everyone justice someday. So, to save time, the fate of the Hindu will be the same one for the Muslim, the Jew, the Budhist, etc. Without Jesus, there is no payment of their transgression of the law. Their sin makes them enemies of God. That does not mean that the Christian (born again) does not sin. He/she is just forgiven and strives not to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #33 March 22, 2006 They go to hell along with everyone else who transgresses the law without the saving grace of God. Wow. It just blows my mind.... Where do you suppose hell actually is? I honestly believe there is no such place. If there is a hell, it's here, on earth, and some people never escape it until they die. But to go there after death????? I'm just not able to believe it. Call me a religious slacker.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #34 March 22, 2006 QuoteThey go to hell along with everyone else who transgresses the law without the saving grace of God. It never fails to blow my mind how many people there are who think that everyone else in the world except those who share their particular theology are going to hell. Well, to hell with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #35 March 22, 2006 QuoteIt never fails to blow my mind how many people there are who think that everyone else in the world except those who share their particular theology are going to hell. Well, to hell with that. Have you taken the test? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #36 March 22, 2006 QuoteWhere do you suppose hell actually is? Does this really matter? The Bible describes it as a place you don't want to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #37 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuote"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Now tell me how a Hindu avoids spending eternity in Hell. By accepting forgiveness, by God's grace, through faith in Jesus and repentance of sin. That doesn't really answer his question. If a Hindu must have faith in Jesus he's not really a Hindu anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #38 March 22, 2006 QuoteThat doesn't really answer his question. If a Hindu must have faith in Jesus he's not really a Hindu anymore. Correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #39 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteThat doesn't really answer his question. If a Hindu must have faith in Jesus he's not really a Hindu anymore. Correct. And that's exactly my point. According to this theology, only Christians get to Heaven; while, quite literally, to Hell with everyone else. Just blows my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #40 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThat doesn't really answer his question. If a Hindu must have faith in Jesus he's not really a Hindu anymore. Correct. And that's exactly my point. According to this theology, only Christians get to Heaven; while, quite literally, to Hell with everyone else. Just blows my mind. And hence any Christian who tolerates Hinduism, Wiccan, Buddhism, etc., is aiding and abetting the enemy. The premise of the original post is correct. If you TRULY believe in your religion you MUST treat all non-believers as pariahs, heretics, sinners of the worst kind, children of the Dark Lord...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #41 March 22, 2006 QuoteThe premise of the original post is correct. If you TRULY believe in your religion you MUST treat all non-believers as pariahs, heretics, sinners of the worst kind, children of the Dark Lord... Right... I've come to the conclusion that most people don't TRULY believe in the religion that they associate with; they believe in their own modified version of it. Personally, if I was going to come up with my own version of religion, then I would call it just that - my own religion. I wouldn't call myself a Christian and then say, "Oh, but I don't believe that, or that , or that..." (or pretty much anything that Christianity is supposed to be about), but that's just me... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #42 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo I'm a hypocrit because I'm an atheist who marries in front of the church. By the dictionary definition, yes. How so? Neither being an atheist nor marrying in front of a church implies morals or virtues one does not possess. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #43 March 22, 2006 Hey, I'm an atheist and I got married at a church. Does that make me a hypocrite? (Oh wait, does the Drive-Thru Little White Wedding Chapel in Vegas even count as a church??? ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #44 March 22, 2006 QuoteAnd that's exactly my point. According to this theology, only Christians get to Heaven; while, quite literally, to Hell with everyone else. Just blows my mind. Abraham wasn't a Christian. As I quoted above, no one will go to hell because they haven't heard the Gospel or because they aren't Christian. They will go to hell because they have broken God's moral law (e.g. Commandments). They are separated from a holy God because of sin. That is regardless of any particular religion including Christianity. There are plenty of self-proclaiming Christians out there (I dare say most) who claim to be saved and in the same sentence declare their goodness. Righteousness and resulting forgiveness only comes through the cross by which your penalty has been paid. First, however, one must understand that they’ve broken God’s moral law (see my signature link below). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #45 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteAnd that's exactly my point. According to this theology, only Christians get to Heaven; while, quite literally, to Hell with everyone else. Just blows my mind. Abraham wasn't a Christian. As I quoted above, no one will go to hell because they haven't heard the Gospel or because they aren't Christian. They will go to hell because they have broken God's moral law (e.g. Commandments). They are separated from a holy God because of sin. That is regardless of any particular religion including Christianity. There are plenty of self-proclaiming Christians out there (I dare say most) who claim to be saved and in the same sentence declare their goodness. Righteousness and resulting forgiveness only comes through the cross by which your penalty has been paid. First, however, one must understand that they’ve broken God’s moral law (see my signature link below). So where do good, upstanding Hindus end up?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #46 March 22, 2006 QuoteSo where do good, upstanding Hindus end up? You already know the answer to your question. Our idea of "good" is very different from what God considers "good." Here is what God thinks about our "good deeds" that an upstanding Hindu might perform apart from faith in him. QuoteBut we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6 QuoteAnd he said to them, You are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #47 March 22, 2006 Quit weasel-wording. Christians who quote "No one can come to the Father except through me" are saying that everyone - everyone in the WORLD - who does not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ are going to Hell. They're just generally unwilling to say, in so many words, that that's what they really, truly believe, so they beat around the bush. But the ultimate conclusion of their message is pretty clear: To Hell with the rest of you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #48 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuit weasel-wording. Christians who quote "No one can come to the Father except through me" are saying that everyone - everyone in the WORLD - who does not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ are going to Hell. They're just generally unwilling to say, in so many words, that that's what they really, truly believe, so they beat around the bush. Even Satan himself believes in the divinity of Jesus. QuoteAnd, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with you, Jesus, you Son of God? are you come here to torment us before the time? Matthew 8:29 QuoteYou believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19 That's not enough. You can believe in your parachute sitting in your closet all day long but it won't do you any good unless you put it on before you jump out of the plane. QuoteBut the ultimate conclusion of their message is pretty clear: To Hell with the rest of you. Not true. QuoteThe Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #49 March 22, 2006 Oh, OK, never mind, that clears it all up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenshi 0 #50 March 22, 2006 Are you a sane person? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
