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Kinaa

I didn't join the British Army to conduct American foreign policy

By Kinaa, in Speakers Corner

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freethefly    6

freethefly
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You would be talking out the other side of your mouth if your county was attacked and thousands of innocent people where killed.



Uhmmm....Iraq didn't kill anyone on 9-11. Bin Laden (trained by the U.S.)and his gang of thugs did and they are safely planning more attacks most likely. Thanks to the wisdom of Bush and his gang of thugs thousands upon thousands of innocent people are now dead!!!! Thanks to the dumbest man ever to be elected several thousand millitary people are now dead (more will die) and tens of thousands are maimed. Many will end up with psycological and drug problems. Many will end up homeless and many will see prison time. All the while the true culprit is free and happy to watch the carnage caused by Bush and his merry band of thugs. To hell with Bush for what he has done to this country. He has done far more damage than Bin Laden could had ever done. Go ahead and support this carnage. I will never support any war that has no bearing on the safety of this country. Iraq is a mistake and you know it. People who would had otherwise been good people got shoved into an unjust war and into an impossiable situation. I wonder just how many American kids will see the inside of a prison before this over with because of what has been done to them psycologicaly? I only wish that more would say enough is enough. I hope that all can return safe and resume their life. Sadly that is but a pipe dream. Some will return and be able to get on with their life. Some will return and commit crimes and see prison. Some will return and turn to drugs and alcohol for relief. Some will return only to put a gun in their mouth to end the pain of what they went through. Too many have a hard road ahead of them due to the bad decision of George W. Bush and his little band of terrorist. I feel sorry for those whose lives this administration has ruined. Oh, by the way, just like many here I am veteran and an American and I do have the right to speak my mind when what I see is wrong with my country.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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shropshire    0

shropshire
Hi There,

It's right and very laudable that you support your mates in a difficult situation but to suggest that America is saving the world [again] is just bollocks.

You're also wrong to suggest that anyone that has not served has no say (if that was the case most of our politicians should keep their gobs shut - actually that's not a bad idea and the this shite would never have got so bad in the first place)

Bare in mind that the current situation was created by your government and it's alies. America is not standing alone in this crap (as you seem to oh so wrongly think).


P.S - F.Y.I I was in the RAF for 10 years. So I guess I get a say:P

You stay safe now....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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SSGJOHNSON    0

SSGJOHNSON
You guys missed the point the point was if you havent had your boots in the sand and seen first hand what has gone on over there. Nevermind you know whats going on just watch it on the news thats the truth. Ill take my ball and go home since I dont know. You have all the answeres.


I know ill go to heaven because ive spent my time in Hell.

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shropshire    0

shropshire
No, I never said or even implied that I have all of the answers.... and dont take your ball home - debate (or discussion at least) is good. Remember, even tho' you've been there - you dont have all of the answers either. On the ground, you can only ever get the small picture.... Noone is going to give you the big one.... that's Way Above our pay grade.

All you can do is tell it how you personally see it (as others like Ben Griffin et al. have done before you).

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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SSGJOHNSON    0

SSGJOHNSON
Let me try and explain to you the way I see it in my world as I am a soldier. As soon as this whole thing is over and all the boys and girls are home again. I will debate or discuss the Pro., Cons., Rights or wrongs of this thing and might even agree with some of your points. Until then I must believe that we are there for the right reasons and doing the right things. I bear true faith to my brothers, sisters, and comrades that are there today and will be there tommorrow. I feel that everyone should but that is just me........Everyone has a right to an opinion and a right to speak that opinion. Now with that said I emplore you to think before you put any soldier down from any country esp. mine as these fine young men and woman volunter to keep our freedom and our way of life and our willing to pay with there lives. I will get off my soap box now and just go back to reading but before I do I will leave you with this (You cant judge anouther man until you have walked a mile in his shoes). I forget that sometimes as well esp. when I discuss the War. Sorry if I have offended anyone.


I know ill go to heaven because ive spent my time in Hell.

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shropshire    0

shropshire
Hi There

1st .. you'll not offend me (easily - that's not a challenge:P)

2nd I fully agree that in a situation like your's you need to be single minded and look after those around you - that's a given.

3rd Enjoy your read - Cheers.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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jenfly00    0

jenfly00
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My point is I am wearing the Uniform right now and if whether or not you support the war you should keep your opinions to yourself unless you have been there and seen first hand what is happening instead of only going by what you see on tv or read on the internet. What do we need the rest of the world for so we can come and save there asses again. Dont hand me that crap I have done my duty and you cant take that away from me or my fallen bretheren. We can deal with it now or later I would rather we deal with it now instead of my children dealing with it later. I dont care how long it takes. Same old conservative BS sleep well my friend the Armed Forces are doing everything it takes to keep you save in your home and not having to fight the Terroist here in this country. I know if my son was over there I would feel the same way and be damm pround of the job that is being done instead of finding every little thing that I can to bring down the job that has to be done. Right or wrong we are there and doing the job. What I dont need is someone from anouther country telling me that my soldiers arent doing and acting like professional soldiers when I know first hand that they are and have been. Yes some didnt and havent but they are being dealt with. How dare anyone I dont care who you are lump the American soldier into one mold when it was the American Soldier that Time and TIme again has saved their country's ass.



Not sure if there was a point buried in there somewhere, but based on what you have to say here, I'm glad you live and work in a structured environment with a chain of command to assist you with decision making. ;)
-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

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miked10270    0

miked10270
I think the point being made is this:

Unless you are serving in the US Military in Iraq at this moment in time, you have no right to criticise or question the US Military's current actions in Iraq! If you do so qualify, and are critical of these actions, you are by implication criticising yourself and must be by definition less than sane! As such, your criticisms are the product of a deranged, un-American mind and should not be heeded!:S

I think he's reading Joseph Heller.

Meanwhile... Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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kallend    2,026

kallend
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OH again my bad Ill just take off my uniform and lay down my arms because you and your buddies dont think its right for us to be in this war. The Hell with the rest of the county that does support the soldiers and the fight that we are in. Sorry to hear that you dont support your country you allways have the right to move to Iraq and fight for there side.



I don't think anyone is criticizing the soldiers in theater. We sure as hell question the motives, competence and honesty of the Commander in Chief and the Secretary of Defense.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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skydyvr    0

skydyvr
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I'm glad you live and work in a structured environment with a chain of command to assist you with decision making. ;)



You are pretty consistently rude to people around here -- wtf is your problem?

At least the guy writes down and expresses his own thoughts, rather than STEAL them from other people.

Knowing that you're a proud plagiarist, it's pretty funny reading your personal attacks on ANYONE else, for ANY reason! :D


. . =(_8^(1)

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Channman    2

Channman
Hey, SSGJOHNSON, don't let Kallend get you down, he just does'nt like his country much right now. This American thing has been eating at his gut now for sometime.

He does however have a son over in Iraq, he's proud of his son, but not of his mission.

I for one stand with ya, appreciate your service to our country.

I for one believe its a made up story with no one to support his statements, as well as no facts, even being a former member of the SAS is in question.

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jenfly00    0

jenfly00
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Quote

I'm glad you live and work in a structured environment with a chain of command to assist you with decision making. ;)



You are pretty consistently rude to people around here -- wtf is your problem?

At least the guy writes down and expresses his own thoughts, rather than STEAL them from other people.

Knowing that you're a proud plagiarist, it's pretty funny reading your personal attacks on ANYONE else, for ANY reason! :D



Well ...damn :S Who pissed in your corn flakes?

A percentage of the population simply functions better in hightly structured environments characterized by clear-cut tasks and instructions. I think it's great these people have found such situations. In all honesty, there are many others who could benefit from it. ;)

Mellow out, anger boy.
-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

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sixtysevengt5oo    0

sixtysevengt5oo



That's total BS. It's the liberal media making up stories to further their agenda. Our military would never do something like that. There's got to be another side to the story.



Im not sure if you are being scarcastic or not but im going to assume you arent

Can anyone explain to me y it is that anytime something negative is said about the war or the administration, it HAS to be because its a LIBERAL media. I honestly would think that there would be a better answer by now. Look at some news sources from arround the world many other countries most conservative news source is more liberal than any of our own. Our media is the most conservative media market in the world, it is less informative than a sheet of toilet paper. Their only goal is to make a buck telling people what they will listen too, stories are always skewed to either be more extream than they really were, or less hellaceous than reality. The media that we are givin is all filtered and approved by the FCC, it is all altered and set out in layman's terms and has no content. I dont know which way this article really went did they sugar coat the real thing or did they blow it out of proportion.

And as for what our military would and would not do, trust me things you and i couldnt even fathom happen, i would be willing to bet that more than once a nervous trigger happy rookie has put a bullet between an 8 y.o. eyes, pregnant women have been killed, innocent civillians have been beaten and tortured. Not to say that this is the norm or that unthinkable things dont happen to our guys, but war is war, its very nature causes morality and law to be subverted. A soldier doesnt get the benefit of being able to assure that a target is a threat before making the decision to kill him, that means civilians get killed, it also means less of our soldiers die, tempers rage, adreniline flows, judgement gets clouded, that means inoocent people get beaten. Untill you have walked miles in the shoes of a soldier AND and iraqi civilian, dont play omnicient bystander and say these things just dont happen, its makes you sound blind and ignorant.

On the topic of the thread, i think any soldier, seasoned or as green as a new twig, that beleives that immoral and improper are happening deserves to be listened to and respected. Even if someone can tough it in the war, they still know what is moral and what is right, war doesnt change what is moral. From my perspective being a bystander, i dont care how vicious the enemy is or how wonderful our soldiers are, dropping munitions for a week strait causing and entire countries infrastructure to crumble, killing at minimum 30,000 people (unknown whether they were civilian or hostile) and killing god now how many others because of the loss of infrastructure is immoral, not to menting the justification for this atrocity, we had inconclusive (and later proven false) information leading us, and an alterior or backup motive for the war that is hipocrytical. We decided to go with we were freeing a nation of people from a horrible dictator, even though north korea, iran, sudan, china, and numerous other african countries had been marked as worse human rights violators than iraq by the geneva convention. If you have to kill some to save many atleast make it the country where the most improvement will be seen. And when people critisize the war dont denounce then as crazy hippies. You know why we dont invade china, or korea, or iran, or the numerous african countries, because it would either be detrimental to us or we have no reason to other than the human rights abuses. Attack china, hell no, over 50% of our imports come from there, we would doom ourselves. Attack N. korea, hell no, they have a military 4 times the size of ours and you know what happened the last time we tried to help attack them. Attack Iran, (earlier hell no), hell no, people would say we were going after oil; now we can say we are stoping another nuclear power but thats a whole different story. Attack sudan or some of the other african countries, hell no, for one what does america care if some african tribes are being slaughtered by machetes every day, and two does that country matter to us in any other way, no. In all truth we dont give a shit whether dictators are lynching their own people, that is unless we gain something else out of taking them over. Our Government and our army are very willing to commit atrocities in order to further their ideas of imperialism. Every great empire has done it, every great empire has made enemies doing it, both internally and globaly, and every empire has fallen because of it. Unless more people like this soldier start to voice their opinions about these matters we will follow the same path as all the other great empires, the path right into the ground, hopefully i'll be dead before then, but if im not i'll be sittin there sayin, "told ya so."

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unformed    0

unformed
No I don't. Not one. But that doesn't change anything. Someone who is an an elite force would respect his fellow fighters and understand that something things have to be done to keep our country safe. He wouldn't go around badmouthing other soldiers. And he definitely wouldn't use that as a reason to leave the forces. That right there is evidence who couldn't hack it.
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Stumpy    284

Stumpy
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even being a former member of the SAS is in question.



Do you have anything to back this up? Would be very interested to see it



I'ts plain as day. No member of the SAS would say something like that.



So no then. Thought not.
Never try to eat more than you can lift

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miked10270    0

miked10270
FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml

The Daily Telegraph is a conservative, serious newspaper.

It does NOT have a political agenda or bias.

It does NOT have to worry about it's circulation figures.

It does NOT generate scandals.

It DOES report the news... Fairly & impartially.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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kallend    2,026

kallend
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FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml

The Daily Telegraph is a conservative, serious newspaper.

It does NOT have a political agenda or bias.

It does NOT have to worry about it's circulation figures.

It does NOT generate scandals.

It DOES report the news... Fairly & impartially.

Mike.



I thought the Telegraph had a strongly conservative political agenda.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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miked10270    0

miked10270
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Quote

FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml

The Daily Telegraph is a conservative, serious newspaper.




I thought the Telegraph had a strongly conservative political agenda.



Hi John,

The Telegraph is "conservative"... Rather than "Conservative (& Unionist Party)"

One thing I wouldn't accuse them of is publishing a story that isn't 100% accurate.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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shropshire    0

shropshire
<>

Commonly voiced spin this.... It presupposes (erroneously, IMHO) that Iraq presented any sort of threat.- Brrr Our Survey said.... Nowt, nada... bugger all.... only in the minds of the Wanker in the White House and The Dick-head in Downing Street.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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