warpedskydiver 0 #1 March 25, 2006 15-Yearold Fatally Beaten at Bus Stop By Associated Press Fri Mar 24, 7:05 PM MILWAUKEE - A 15-year-old boy died after being beaten as he waited for a bus near his school, police said. Authorities on Friday were seeking four or five males they believed were involved. The victim, identified as Raheim Patrick, was a seventh-grader at Malcolm X Academy, according to officials with Milwaukee Public Schools. Officers were investigating whether he had an earlier altercation with an assailant, police said. District spokesman Phil Harris said that the boy was released early from school because of a doctor's appointment, and that he was waiting at a bus stop nearby about 1:50 p.m. Thursday when he was attacked. A vehicle pulled up across the street, and a male got out, walked up to Patrick and slapped him, police spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz said Friday. Then the two scuffled. Several other males, all ages 17 to 19, got out of the vehicle and beat Patrick with their fists, police said. He died at the scene, Schwartz said. School district officials, including the principal and other staff members, met with the victim's mother Thursday night at her home and expressed their condolences. They said his family and friends could think of no reason anyone would harm the teen. "He just didn't have any problems like that," said Pete Pochowski, the school district's security director. The incident follows a series of other high-profile beatings by groups of boys and young men in recent years that have killed one person and seriously injured five. School officials planned to send a letter about the incident to students' families.Quote now how will the far left antigun people explain this one away?...maybe they should ban hands...yeah or ban arms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #2 March 25, 2006 I'll raise you $2.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #3 March 25, 2006 hehehe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tenshi 0 #4 March 25, 2006 HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Funny shit. Not really though and you should stop whining about things that haven't happened (yet) *Yaaaaawn* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #5 March 25, 2006 It's really quite simple: The NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. It is the means of first resort because shooting someone is so energy-efficient, therefore guns encourage people to employ violence instead of diplomacy. If the NRA did not work to keep so many firearms in circulation in the US, the violence culture would not exist and maybe those young lads would have used diplomacy to get the victim to redress their grievance with him. But thanks to the NRA, the violence culture exists, and so the the victim was beaten to death. And I hear they approached the victim from his left, and mainly used their left hands. So the NRA is to blame for this kid's death, and so is the left. Seems logical to me. Glad to have been of assistance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites boringjen 0 #6 March 25, 2006 Isn't this where someone mentions that if the boy or an interested bystander had been carrying, the boy would have stood a much better chance of not being publicly murdered? Then, doesn't someone say that, while attempting to stop the beating by shooting wildly all over the neighborhood, the concealed carrier would probably end up killing some 10 year old girl in the middle of her birthday party? Not that it makes a bit of difference to this news story, but I find the idea of a 15 year old in 7th grade slightly wrong. Jen "I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." - Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #7 March 26, 2006 you mean like the 22 yr old's going to high school currently?...wanna guess how they vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #8 March 26, 2006 Quoteyou mean like the 22 yr old's going to high school currently?...wanna guess how they vote? They don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #9 March 26, 2006 Quotenow how will the far left antigun people explain this one away?...maybe they should ban hands...yeah or ban arms? Is this where the gun advocates claim that guns prevent gun violence? If yes, then how do you explain this? Seven people dead in Capitol Hill shooting By Seattle Times staff Police don't know yet why a gunman in his late 20s shot six people to death and then killed himself just after 7 this morning at a home in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood. At a news conference in the stunned neighborhood this afternoon, Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske said the shooter, a local man whose name has yet to be released, killed six young men and women inside and outside the house "execution style." Armed with a 12-gauge pistol-grip shotgun and a semiautomatic handgun, the man prowled the home's second story looking for more targets, Kerlikowske said, missing two people locked in a bathroom. When he left the house, the gunman was confronted by a Seattle police officer who happened to be in the neighborhood. The officer was standing between the shooter and two injured victims. When the officer confronted the gunman, the man put the gun to his head and killed himself. Six people, whose names have not been released, died at the scene – including the gunman. Three others were taken to Harborview Medical Center, where one man died and the other two remain hospitalized. The shooting took place at a home in the 2100 block of East Republican Street. When the man opened fire, people poured from the house in search of a place to hide, said Jakob Kayser, 22, whose backyard abuts the rental home. Kayser said two young men and a young woman, all appearing to be in their late teens or early 20s, pounded on his back door. They demanded to use his phone to call police. They told Kayser that one of their friends was dead and another was bleeding heavily. After calling for help, the three took off, he said. News tips If you have information about the shooting, call The Seattle Times at (206) 464-2144 or email us at newstips@seattletimes.com. Please include your contact information. Police loaded the uninjured partygoers into buses and took them to a precinct headquarters for interviewing, Pruitt said. Nancie Thorne, whose 15-year-old daughter, Suzanne, was in the house when the man opened fire said she learned about what happened when Suzanne's 18-year-old boyfriend called her this morning. "It's the worst phone call a mom can get," said Thorne, who went to the Capitol Hill home after getting the call. She said she doesn't know where Suzanne is now. The girl, her boyfriend Jesse Mullens and another friend had gone to what Thorne called a "zombie rave," a hard-core electronic dance party, in Seattle last night. In his phone call, Mullens told Thorne that after the rave they went to the house on Capitol Hill for a party. As the couple and their friend were preparing to leave, the gunman barged into the home, Mullens said. Suzanne had gone back inside, possibly to get something, her mother said. Mullens told Thorne he heard a lot of gunshots. He thought Suzanne was stuck somewhere in the house with the shooter between her and the door. "She shouldn't have gone to the rave. I've never approved of those things," Thorne said. "The young kids just don't get it. "I just hope to God she's alive," she said, crying. "And if she is, she's grounded for life." Thorne said Mullens was one of a number of people police took to a precinct headquarters for questioning. After being interviewed by police, one of that group, Garry Will, 20, of Bellevue, said he doesn't recall any arguments at the rave or at the house preceding the shooting. He said the shooter had been at the house, left, then returned with several guns. "Everybody was cool and chill and this guy showed up and started firing rounds out on the porch. He shot a guy and then came inside and started letting off rounds," Will said. "He went in there trying to kill people, that's for sure. He wasn't going after just one person because he was letting off all these rounds." Aaron Hoyle, 25, said the home was being rented by five of his friends, who shared a love of electronic music. Hoyle, who wasn't there when the shots were fired this morning, said the occupants frequently hosted parties. Several neighbors of the home said they were awakened by gunfire. "Our windows were like rattling from each one," Kayser said. "It's unbelievable how loud that was." Charles Jackson, who lives two doors down from the home, said he was "just getting out of bed and I heard 'boom, boom.'." "By the time I got out, there was one more shot fired," said Jackson, 67. Jackson saw a man lying on a sidewalk who appeared to have been shot. Neighbors say there has been a steady stream of young people with facial piercings, heavy makeup and multicolored hair coming and going from the house. Kayser said people were always hanging out on the porch and often said hello to passers-by. William Lowe, who lives across the street from where the shootings occurred, called 911 when he heard four shotgun blasts and two shots from a small-caliber handgun around 7 a.m. He said he saw an injured man stumble outside the home. "The first person I saw was obviously wounded, and he looked disoriented," said Lowe, 59. He said he saw the gunman leave the house through a side door, carrying what looked like a sawed-off shotgun. "The officer yelled 'drop your ' and the guy put the gun to his mouth and pulled the trigger," Lowe said. Lowe said the gunman looked familiar and he thinks he may have visited the house before. He said that since people moved into the home nearly six months ago it was a regular party destination for youth. Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels spent a portion of the morning surveying the neighborhood. "Our thoughts are with the people at Harborview and with the victims of this senseless violence," Nickels said. "It's a terrible tragedy; we don't have incidents like this in this city very often." Seattle Times staff reporters Ben Romano, Jennifer Sullivan, Sara Jean Green, Jack Broom, Mike Carter, Jonathan Martin, Maureen O'Hagan, Sonia Krishnan, Nick Perry, Justin Mayo and Christine Willmsen and news researcher Miyoko Wolf contributed to this report. Quote Now I'm not naive enough to think that all gun owners are lunatic killers (I'm not really looking to get into a hardcore gun debate) and I surely don't expect guns to vanish off of the face of the earth. But it's clear that easy access to guns made this an easy crime to commit. And before you get into your typical "if the victims had guns then this crime wouldn't have happened", remember that the gunman took these people by surprise and opened fired before anyone could react. Who's to know how things would have played different had one of the victims been able to get to their own gun to stop the gunman before he turned his own weapon on himself, but it's clear that easy access to guns resulted in the deaths of some innocent people. Oh and before you label me, I'll be off of DZ.COM as soon as this message is posted and I'll be playing a computer game (Call of Duty 2) where I use guns to kill those nasty Germans in the epic World War II game. But I won't actually be killing anyone, I'll just be killing computerized versions of people. Oh and while we're at it, don't you think it's time that we start arming young children in school? I mean after all, they might need easy access to their guns when one of their classmates start shooting up the joint and it's obvious that no gun violence would ever occur in a place of learning when everyone is packing right? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites altichick 1 #10 March 26, 2006 Health minister hails smoke ban BBC News Sunday, 26 March 2006, 15:48 GMT 16:48 UK Health Minister Andy Kerr has said he expects the implementation of Scotland's smoking ban to run smoothly. Speaking at a pub in East Kilbride, Mr Kerr said the new law would be "sensibly" enforced in the early days but stressed it must be obeyed. QuoteWell obviously we should give everyone guns so they can enforce new laws... Why do you bother to find news pieces that have nothing to do with guns / shooting and turn them into a pro-gun (or rather an anti-"far left antigun people") rant?? Is it just a pre-emptive strike by the guys with the guns against anyone who doesn't agree with them??? Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #11 March 27, 2006 QuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #12 March 27, 2006 Quotemaybe they should ban hands...yeah or ban arms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #13 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Uh, if you don't see, like I think everyone else did, that the post was tongue-in-cheek parody... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #14 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Uh, if you don't see, like I think everyone else did, that the post was tongue-in-cheek parody... I did indeed detect that tone, but wanted to say my piece anyway, in case someone took it seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #15 March 28, 2006 If there's no guns, then people can't get shot. We should (unload them first and then) melt them down and make nails to build affordable housing. end of story ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites racer42 0 #16 March 28, 2006 Ya know, I've been a gun owner on and off since I was a kid. If I didn't spend all my money jumping out of airplanes, I would be spending it on guns. I like skeet shooting and punching holes in paper, but I have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. The Second Amendment is solidly in place in the body politic. Honestly, I think the NRA is full of shit.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #17 March 28, 2006 QuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? Your dog is your only hope. I hope the intruder won't shoot him first, before coming for you. QuoteHonestly, I think the NRA is full of shit. Care to be more specific about why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #18 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? Your dog is your only hope. I hope the intruder won't shoot him first, before coming for you. Better than shooting you first, while you're drawing your gun.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites racer42 0 #19 March 28, 2006 First, he's gonna have to hit my dog and unless he kills her outright, she's gonna tear him to pieces. Second, Do you know my neighbors? Third, I don't live in Chattanooga, so I don't know what goes on there. As for the NRA. It's just another big monied lobby, with a really big mouth. I'm done. Thanks.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #20 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? At first, perhaps Chattanooga's emergency call system should be improved, right? Or a better rest break planning?? Same refers to any other call system. Area-wide. At second, I remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). My neighbours are 67 and 71 y/o. While he was running to my home, his wife called the police. They were on the scene w/in very few minutes. All our neighbours from every side left their homes as the heard the noise, voices - nobody was scared to be shot down! I would do exactly the same. Look, listen, go and help, in case there's something wrong in my neighborhood. Never ever I would pull out a hand gun before having a look what's going on over there - I never ever would fear to be shot down What for? Many problems easely could be solved just by a fine little punch-up Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #21 March 28, 2006 QuoteI remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). another crime caused by guns. even in a safe they cause crime. guns and SUVs - when will people learn Won't someone think of the children? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #22 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). another crime caused by guns. even in a safe they cause crime. guns and SUVs - when will people learn Won't someone think of the children? Yep. Fully agree to that. Damned weapons! Luckily, my child was not at home and all my raised fears just were turning around my precious little hand guns dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #23 March 28, 2006 >guns and SUVs - when will people learn Who else liked guns and SUV's? Hitler, that's who! Do people here really want to be like Hitler? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 March 29, 2006 QuoteSecond, Do you know my neighbors? Third, I don't live in Chattanooga, so I don't know what goes on there. As for the NRA. It's just another big monied lobby, with a really big mouth. No, I don't know your neighbors. But if you're counting upon them to interject and risk their own lives to save you, that could be a bad bet. You may not live in Chattanooga, but there are 9-1-1 horror stories like that all over. As for the NRA, that doesn't explain why you think they are "full of shit". Perhaps you really don't have any details to support this comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 March 29, 2006 Quote>guns and SUVs - when will people learn Who else liked guns and SUV's? Hitler, that's who! Do people here really want to be like Hitler? An SUV carrying a gun shot my brother in 'Nam. I'll never forgive. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,027 #2 March 25, 2006 I'll raise you $2.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenshi 0 #4 March 25, 2006 HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Funny shit. Not really though and you should stop whining about things that haven't happened (yet) *Yaaaaawn* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #5 March 25, 2006 It's really quite simple: The NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. It is the means of first resort because shooting someone is so energy-efficient, therefore guns encourage people to employ violence instead of diplomacy. If the NRA did not work to keep so many firearms in circulation in the US, the violence culture would not exist and maybe those young lads would have used diplomacy to get the victim to redress their grievance with him. But thanks to the NRA, the violence culture exists, and so the the victim was beaten to death. And I hear they approached the victim from his left, and mainly used their left hands. So the NRA is to blame for this kid's death, and so is the left. Seems logical to me. Glad to have been of assistance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boringjen 0 #6 March 25, 2006 Isn't this where someone mentions that if the boy or an interested bystander had been carrying, the boy would have stood a much better chance of not being publicly murdered? Then, doesn't someone say that, while attempting to stop the beating by shooting wildly all over the neighborhood, the concealed carrier would probably end up killing some 10 year old girl in the middle of her birthday party? Not that it makes a bit of difference to this news story, but I find the idea of a 15 year old in 7th grade slightly wrong. Jen "I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." - Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #7 March 26, 2006 you mean like the 22 yr old's going to high school currently?...wanna guess how they vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #8 March 26, 2006 Quoteyou mean like the 22 yr old's going to high school currently?...wanna guess how they vote? They don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #9 March 26, 2006 Quotenow how will the far left antigun people explain this one away?...maybe they should ban hands...yeah or ban arms? Is this where the gun advocates claim that guns prevent gun violence? If yes, then how do you explain this? Seven people dead in Capitol Hill shooting By Seattle Times staff Police don't know yet why a gunman in his late 20s shot six people to death and then killed himself just after 7 this morning at a home in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood. At a news conference in the stunned neighborhood this afternoon, Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske said the shooter, a local man whose name has yet to be released, killed six young men and women inside and outside the house "execution style." Armed with a 12-gauge pistol-grip shotgun and a semiautomatic handgun, the man prowled the home's second story looking for more targets, Kerlikowske said, missing two people locked in a bathroom. When he left the house, the gunman was confronted by a Seattle police officer who happened to be in the neighborhood. The officer was standing between the shooter and two injured victims. When the officer confronted the gunman, the man put the gun to his head and killed himself. Six people, whose names have not been released, died at the scene – including the gunman. Three others were taken to Harborview Medical Center, where one man died and the other two remain hospitalized. The shooting took place at a home in the 2100 block of East Republican Street. When the man opened fire, people poured from the house in search of a place to hide, said Jakob Kayser, 22, whose backyard abuts the rental home. Kayser said two young men and a young woman, all appearing to be in their late teens or early 20s, pounded on his back door. They demanded to use his phone to call police. They told Kayser that one of their friends was dead and another was bleeding heavily. After calling for help, the three took off, he said. News tips If you have information about the shooting, call The Seattle Times at (206) 464-2144 or email us at newstips@seattletimes.com. Please include your contact information. Police loaded the uninjured partygoers into buses and took them to a precinct headquarters for interviewing, Pruitt said. Nancie Thorne, whose 15-year-old daughter, Suzanne, was in the house when the man opened fire said she learned about what happened when Suzanne's 18-year-old boyfriend called her this morning. "It's the worst phone call a mom can get," said Thorne, who went to the Capitol Hill home after getting the call. She said she doesn't know where Suzanne is now. The girl, her boyfriend Jesse Mullens and another friend had gone to what Thorne called a "zombie rave," a hard-core electronic dance party, in Seattle last night. In his phone call, Mullens told Thorne that after the rave they went to the house on Capitol Hill for a party. As the couple and their friend were preparing to leave, the gunman barged into the home, Mullens said. Suzanne had gone back inside, possibly to get something, her mother said. Mullens told Thorne he heard a lot of gunshots. He thought Suzanne was stuck somewhere in the house with the shooter between her and the door. "She shouldn't have gone to the rave. I've never approved of those things," Thorne said. "The young kids just don't get it. "I just hope to God she's alive," she said, crying. "And if she is, she's grounded for life." Thorne said Mullens was one of a number of people police took to a precinct headquarters for questioning. After being interviewed by police, one of that group, Garry Will, 20, of Bellevue, said he doesn't recall any arguments at the rave or at the house preceding the shooting. He said the shooter had been at the house, left, then returned with several guns. "Everybody was cool and chill and this guy showed up and started firing rounds out on the porch. He shot a guy and then came inside and started letting off rounds," Will said. "He went in there trying to kill people, that's for sure. He wasn't going after just one person because he was letting off all these rounds." Aaron Hoyle, 25, said the home was being rented by five of his friends, who shared a love of electronic music. Hoyle, who wasn't there when the shots were fired this morning, said the occupants frequently hosted parties. Several neighbors of the home said they were awakened by gunfire. "Our windows were like rattling from each one," Kayser said. "It's unbelievable how loud that was." Charles Jackson, who lives two doors down from the home, said he was "just getting out of bed and I heard 'boom, boom.'." "By the time I got out, there was one more shot fired," said Jackson, 67. Jackson saw a man lying on a sidewalk who appeared to have been shot. Neighbors say there has been a steady stream of young people with facial piercings, heavy makeup and multicolored hair coming and going from the house. Kayser said people were always hanging out on the porch and often said hello to passers-by. William Lowe, who lives across the street from where the shootings occurred, called 911 when he heard four shotgun blasts and two shots from a small-caliber handgun around 7 a.m. He said he saw an injured man stumble outside the home. "The first person I saw was obviously wounded, and he looked disoriented," said Lowe, 59. He said he saw the gunman leave the house through a side door, carrying what looked like a sawed-off shotgun. "The officer yelled 'drop your ' and the guy put the gun to his mouth and pulled the trigger," Lowe said. Lowe said the gunman looked familiar and he thinks he may have visited the house before. He said that since people moved into the home nearly six months ago it was a regular party destination for youth. Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels spent a portion of the morning surveying the neighborhood. "Our thoughts are with the people at Harborview and with the victims of this senseless violence," Nickels said. "It's a terrible tragedy; we don't have incidents like this in this city very often." Seattle Times staff reporters Ben Romano, Jennifer Sullivan, Sara Jean Green, Jack Broom, Mike Carter, Jonathan Martin, Maureen O'Hagan, Sonia Krishnan, Nick Perry, Justin Mayo and Christine Willmsen and news researcher Miyoko Wolf contributed to this report. Quote Now I'm not naive enough to think that all gun owners are lunatic killers (I'm not really looking to get into a hardcore gun debate) and I surely don't expect guns to vanish off of the face of the earth. But it's clear that easy access to guns made this an easy crime to commit. And before you get into your typical "if the victims had guns then this crime wouldn't have happened", remember that the gunman took these people by surprise and opened fired before anyone could react. Who's to know how things would have played different had one of the victims been able to get to their own gun to stop the gunman before he turned his own weapon on himself, but it's clear that easy access to guns resulted in the deaths of some innocent people. Oh and before you label me, I'll be off of DZ.COM as soon as this message is posted and I'll be playing a computer game (Call of Duty 2) where I use guns to kill those nasty Germans in the epic World War II game. But I won't actually be killing anyone, I'll just be killing computerized versions of people. Oh and while we're at it, don't you think it's time that we start arming young children in school? I mean after all, they might need easy access to their guns when one of their classmates start shooting up the joint and it's obvious that no gun violence would ever occur in a place of learning when everyone is packing right? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altichick 1 #10 March 26, 2006 Health minister hails smoke ban BBC News Sunday, 26 March 2006, 15:48 GMT 16:48 UK Health Minister Andy Kerr has said he expects the implementation of Scotland's smoking ban to run smoothly. Speaking at a pub in East Kilbride, Mr Kerr said the new law would be "sensibly" enforced in the early days but stressed it must be obeyed. QuoteWell obviously we should give everyone guns so they can enforce new laws... Why do you bother to find news pieces that have nothing to do with guns / shooting and turn them into a pro-gun (or rather an anti-"far left antigun people") rant?? Is it just a pre-emptive strike by the guys with the guns against anyone who doesn't agree with them??? Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #11 March 27, 2006 QuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #12 March 27, 2006 Quotemaybe they should ban hands...yeah or ban arms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #13 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Uh, if you don't see, like I think everyone else did, that the post was tongue-in-cheek parody... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #14 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Uh, if you don't see, like I think everyone else did, that the post was tongue-in-cheek parody... I did indeed detect that tone, but wanted to say my piece anyway, in case someone took it seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #15 March 28, 2006 If there's no guns, then people can't get shot. We should (unload them first and then) melt them down and make nails to build affordable housing. end of story ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites racer42 0 #16 March 28, 2006 Ya know, I've been a gun owner on and off since I was a kid. If I didn't spend all my money jumping out of airplanes, I would be spending it on guns. I like skeet shooting and punching holes in paper, but I have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. The Second Amendment is solidly in place in the body politic. Honestly, I think the NRA is full of shit.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #17 March 28, 2006 QuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? Your dog is your only hope. I hope the intruder won't shoot him first, before coming for you. QuoteHonestly, I think the NRA is full of shit. Care to be more specific about why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #18 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? Your dog is your only hope. I hope the intruder won't shoot him first, before coming for you. Better than shooting you first, while you're drawing your gun.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites racer42 0 #19 March 28, 2006 First, he's gonna have to hit my dog and unless he kills her outright, she's gonna tear him to pieces. Second, Do you know my neighbors? Third, I don't live in Chattanooga, so I don't know what goes on there. As for the NRA. It's just another big monied lobby, with a really big mouth. I'm done. Thanks.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #20 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? At first, perhaps Chattanooga's emergency call system should be improved, right? Or a better rest break planning?? Same refers to any other call system. Area-wide. At second, I remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). My neighbours are 67 and 71 y/o. While he was running to my home, his wife called the police. They were on the scene w/in very few minutes. All our neighbours from every side left their homes as the heard the noise, voices - nobody was scared to be shot down! I would do exactly the same. Look, listen, go and help, in case there's something wrong in my neighborhood. Never ever I would pull out a hand gun before having a look what's going on over there - I never ever would fear to be shot down What for? Many problems easely could be solved just by a fine little punch-up Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #21 March 28, 2006 QuoteI remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). another crime caused by guns. even in a safe they cause crime. guns and SUVs - when will people learn Won't someone think of the children? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #22 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). another crime caused by guns. even in a safe they cause crime. guns and SUVs - when will people learn Won't someone think of the children? Yep. Fully agree to that. Damned weapons! Luckily, my child was not at home and all my raised fears just were turning around my precious little hand guns dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #23 March 28, 2006 >guns and SUVs - when will people learn Who else liked guns and SUV's? Hitler, that's who! Do people here really want to be like Hitler? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 March 29, 2006 QuoteSecond, Do you know my neighbors? Third, I don't live in Chattanooga, so I don't know what goes on there. As for the NRA. It's just another big monied lobby, with a really big mouth. No, I don't know your neighbors. But if you're counting upon them to interject and risk their own lives to save you, that could be a bad bet. You may not live in Chattanooga, but there are 9-1-1 horror stories like that all over. As for the NRA, that doesn't explain why you think they are "full of shit". Perhaps you really don't have any details to support this comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 March 29, 2006 Quote>guns and SUVs - when will people learn Who else liked guns and SUV's? Hitler, that's who! Do people here really want to be like Hitler? An SUV carrying a gun shot my brother in 'Nam. I'll never forgive. ... 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JohnRich 4 #11 March 27, 2006 QuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #12 March 27, 2006 Quotemaybe they should ban hands...yeah or ban arms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Uh, if you don't see, like I think everyone else did, that the post was tongue-in-cheek parody... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe NRA promotes a gun culture in which violence is a dispute mechanism of first resort. Sport shooting and lawful armed self-defense is neither a "gun culture" nor one that promotes violence. Uh, if you don't see, like I think everyone else did, that the post was tongue-in-cheek parody... I did indeed detect that tone, but wanted to say my piece anyway, in case someone took it seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 March 28, 2006 If there's no guns, then people can't get shot. We should (unload them first and then) melt them down and make nails to build affordable housing. end of story ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #16 March 28, 2006 Ya know, I've been a gun owner on and off since I was a kid. If I didn't spend all my money jumping out of airplanes, I would be spending it on guns. I like skeet shooting and punching holes in paper, but I have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. The Second Amendment is solidly in place in the body politic. Honestly, I think the NRA is full of shit.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 March 28, 2006 QuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? Your dog is your only hope. I hope the intruder won't shoot him first, before coming for you. QuoteHonestly, I think the NRA is full of shit. Care to be more specific about why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #18 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? Your dog is your only hope. I hope the intruder won't shoot him first, before coming for you. Better than shooting you first, while you're drawing your gun.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #19 March 28, 2006 First, he's gonna have to hit my dog and unless he kills her outright, she's gonna tear him to pieces. Second, Do you know my neighbors? Third, I don't live in Chattanooga, so I don't know what goes on there. As for the NRA. It's just another big monied lobby, with a really big mouth. I'm done. Thanks.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #20 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have never kept a gun in the house for the purpose of "home defense". I got a cell phone, neighbors and a big dog. How are you going to defend yourself after you call 9-1-1 on the cell phone and while you await the arrival of the police? Have you read the news stories lately about how tens of thousands of 9-1-1 calls went unanswered in Chattanooga because of attendants going on simultaneous rest breaks? What makes you think the neighbors are going to come to your aid? If they don't have guns either, why should they risk their lives in hand-to-hand combat with some thug, for you? At first, perhaps Chattanooga's emergency call system should be improved, right? Or a better rest break planning?? Same refers to any other call system. Area-wide. At second, I remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). My neighbours are 67 and 71 y/o. While he was running to my home, his wife called the police. They were on the scene w/in very few minutes. All our neighbours from every side left their homes as the heard the noise, voices - nobody was scared to be shot down! I would do exactly the same. Look, listen, go and help, in case there's something wrong in my neighborhood. Never ever I would pull out a hand gun before having a look what's going on over there - I never ever would fear to be shot down What for? Many problems easely could be solved just by a fine little punch-up Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 March 28, 2006 QuoteI remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). another crime caused by guns. even in a safe they cause crime. guns and SUVs - when will people learn Won't someone think of the children? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #22 March 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI remember my neighbours rushing to my house 2 yrs ago, a thug was trying to break into my cellar rooms (there's my installed safe containing few hand guns). another crime caused by guns. even in a safe they cause crime. guns and SUVs - when will people learn Won't someone think of the children? Yep. Fully agree to that. Damned weapons! Luckily, my child was not at home and all my raised fears just were turning around my precious little hand guns dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #23 March 28, 2006 >guns and SUVs - when will people learn Who else liked guns and SUV's? Hitler, that's who! Do people here really want to be like Hitler? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #24 March 29, 2006 QuoteSecond, Do you know my neighbors? Third, I don't live in Chattanooga, so I don't know what goes on there. As for the NRA. It's just another big monied lobby, with a really big mouth. No, I don't know your neighbors. But if you're counting upon them to interject and risk their own lives to save you, that could be a bad bet. You may not live in Chattanooga, but there are 9-1-1 horror stories like that all over. As for the NRA, that doesn't explain why you think they are "full of shit". Perhaps you really don't have any details to support this comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #25 March 29, 2006 Quote>guns and SUVs - when will people learn Who else liked guns and SUV's? Hitler, that's who! Do people here really want to be like Hitler? An SUV carrying a gun shot my brother in 'Nam. I'll never forgive. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
