JENNR8R 0 #1 November 30, 2006 On one of my jumps last weekend my group left the airplane too close to the first group out. When I tracked away, I saw a canopy opening to my right that was entirely too close for comfort. What could have happened if I had tracked into that canopy as it was opening?What do you call a beautiful, sunny day that comes after two cloudy, rainy ones? -- Monday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #2 November 30, 2006 >What could have happened if I had tracked into that canopy as it was opening? Anything from a slap in the face to losing a leg to being killed instantly. I've seen all three happen. At those closing speeds (near 100mph) there aren't too many "minor" collisions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #3 November 30, 2006 Quote What could have happened if I had tracked into that canopy as it was opening? This is what can happen: Ouch!!!Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE841 3 #4 November 30, 2006 About 25 years ago, I was part of a 3-way at Elsinore. At break-off time, the three of us did the standard T-T-W-P. I watched the others track away, checked my altimeter, waved off and pitched. At line stretch, something barreled past me like a freight train, brushing my left arm and tearing the "N" off of my New Balance running shoe. A moment later, I saw a Paracommander pop open below and in front of me. Turns out a young man just off student status followed us out to watch. No, he didn't remember to tell us his plan. After watching us turn points, he saw us turn and track, then forgot what he was supposed to do. His decision, if he had the skills to do it, really wasn't such a bad idea. He thought that since we were all moving away from the center, he should track for the now empty center. Unfortunately, he couldn't stop his track, and he ended up flying almost directly over me at pull time. He got a strong lecture from both me and the staff at Elsinore, and was grounded for a while, giving him time to review basic safety procedures in skydiving. Bottom line, stay out of the lower jumper's air. There are several ways to do this, from proper exit order to giving an appropriate delay between groups. There are quite a few threads that address these issues. Hope this helped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #5 November 30, 2006 QuoteOn one of my jumps last weekend my group left the airplane too close to the first group out. When I tracked away, I saw a canopy opening to my right that was entirely too close for comfort. What could have happened if I had tracked into that canopy as it was opening? Jenn, Curious (though not looking to place blame)... did the load get the ground speed from the pilot before exit? Did your group used the posted delay chart? (PM if you want) JimAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricaH 0 #6 November 30, 2006 To further BillVon's post. Death isn't always the worst that can happen. There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JENNR8R 0 #7 November 30, 2006 Curious (though not looking to place blame)... did the load get the ground speed from the pilot before exit? Did your group used the posted delay chart? Quote I didn’t think the specifics of this particular jump was important since I wanted the discussion to be about what would happen if I had collided with the canopy. I started the thread because I didn’t know what would happen and to remind people of the dangers of exiting too close, but… It was a situation where the winds changed from what they had been all day. It was a full Casa load. I didn’t see a lot of communicating with the pilot on those loads. I never saw a posted delay chart. A five-way exited before our three-way and we were supposed to give a five-second delay between groups. The first to leave my group did the spotting. He had a pro rating so I am confident that he knew what he was doing… the other two of us were supposed to wait for two seconds and practice diving down to him. He was hard to find. I saw the five-way before I saw the single guy. I thought they looked a little close, but it never occurred to me that they would be opening when they did. We broke off at 4,500. I'm glad we didn't take it down to 4,000.What do you call a beautiful, sunny day that comes after two cloudy, rainy ones? -- Monday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 164 #8 November 30, 2006 QuoteCurious (though not looking to place blame)... did the load get the ground speed from the pilot before exit? Did your group used the posted delay chart? Quote I didn’t think the specifics of this particular jump was important since I wanted the discussion to be about what would happen if I had collided with the canopy. I started the thread because I didn’t know what would happen and to remind people of the dangers of exiting too close, but… It was a situation where the winds changed from what they had been all day. It was a full Casa load. I didn’t see a lot of communicating with the pilot on those loads. I never saw a posted delay chart. A five-way exited before our three-way and we were supposed to give a five-second delay between groups. The first to leave my group did the spotting. He had a pro rating so I am confident that he knew what he was doing… the other two of us were supposed to wait for two seconds and practice diving down to him. He was hard to find. I saw the five-way before I saw the single guy. I thought they looked a little close, but it never occurred to me that they would be opening when they did. We broke off at 4,500. I'm glad we didn't take it down to 4,000. Ah... sorry... made a poor assumption that you were in the SOI Otter. (my bad) Avoidance: ground speed based exit delay/seporation is the key. Possible outcomes: anything including two (or more) dead jumpers. Folks have lost parts and/or lives from a mid-airs. (as mentioned above) JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
fcajump 164 #8 November 30, 2006 QuoteCurious (though not looking to place blame)... did the load get the ground speed from the pilot before exit? Did your group used the posted delay chart? Quote I didn’t think the specifics of this particular jump was important since I wanted the discussion to be about what would happen if I had collided with the canopy. I started the thread because I didn’t know what would happen and to remind people of the dangers of exiting too close, but… It was a situation where the winds changed from what they had been all day. It was a full Casa load. I didn’t see a lot of communicating with the pilot on those loads. I never saw a posted delay chart. A five-way exited before our three-way and we were supposed to give a five-second delay between groups. The first to leave my group did the spotting. He had a pro rating so I am confident that he knew what he was doing… the other two of us were supposed to wait for two seconds and practice diving down to him. He was hard to find. I saw the five-way before I saw the single guy. I thought they looked a little close, but it never occurred to me that they would be opening when they did. We broke off at 4,500. I'm glad we didn't take it down to 4,000. Ah... sorry... made a poor assumption that you were in the SOI Otter. (my bad) Avoidance: ground speed based exit delay/seporation is the key. Possible outcomes: anything including two (or more) dead jumpers. Folks have lost parts and/or lives from a mid-airs. (as mentioned above) JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
