It's starting

[billvon 2,990]

For a long time now, the people denying global climate change have been gradually changing their approach. They have gone from "the climate isn't changing" to "well, maybe it is, but we have nothing to do with it" to "so what if it changes a little, it might be good." The people warning about catastrophic changes in ecosystems were regularly ridiculed as alarmist activists who had some sort of political agenda.

Well, the change in ocean temperatures have just taken another victim - a third of the coral in the Caribbean has died off over the few months. That's a third, as in 33%. These are corals that have been alive and growing for 800 years in some cases. The die-off has been caused by a combination of direct climate effects (the warmer temps kills off the symbiotic algae in the corals) and indirect (the temps are better for certain bacteria that feed on the corals.) At this rate most of the coral in the area will be dead in a few years.

And coral isn't just something that you can take pretty pictures of. It's the basis of a food chain in reefs that provides food for fish; that in turn provides food for us. Corals provide protections from storms (which, of course, will get stronger as the seas get warmer.) They provide materials for medicine and research.

It's not just the Caribbean. In some areas of the world (the Indian Ocean for example) the die-off is closer to 90%. These are places where you can calculate the number of people who will starve because they can no longer get as many fish.

You might want to archive this post for your kids. Not because it's very profound, but because it's likely that the only place they will see the sorts of coral shown below is on a computer screen or on a page in a history book. Which is sad in its own way.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/31/coral.death.ap/

[rushmc 23]

No dispute things are changing.

HUGE dispute as to what the cause is........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,990]

>HUGE dispute as to what the cause is........

So you're in the "OK, the climate's changing, but we probably don't have anything to do with it" camp?

[windcatcher 0]

Yep, just confirms my belief that the world isn't going to be around forever. I can't wait for heaven!

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[quade 4]

Quote

Yep, just confirms my belief that the world isn't going to be around forever. I can't wait for heaven!

Wow.

I need to cool off before responding to that because right now you're making my head 'splode.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[catfishhunter 2]

Mother Earth will take care if herself.

If the reef is only 800 years old that means it wasn't there 801 years ago right? So what did the fish do before then?

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[windcatcher 0]

Mission accomplished!!!

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[billvon 2,990]

>Mother Earth will take care if herself.

Of course. We just may not like the new Mother Earth. We rely on the old one a lot. Seems foolish to do our best to destroy it, eh?

[catfishhunter 2]

We are foolish people ;)

But you didn't answer my question. What did the Fish do 801 years ago when the coral reef wasn't there?

If your going to go on with the doom and gloom you need to explain why things where fine before and why they won't be fine now.

Edited again to qoute the article
"On Sunday, Hernandez-Delgado found a colony of 800-year-old star coral -- more than 13 feet high -- that had just died in the waters off Puerto Rico."

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Elisha 1]

Quote

>HUGE dispute as to what the cause is........

So you're in the "OK, the climate's changing, but we probably don't have anything to do with it" camp?

So....you need to pigeon-hole everyone into a specific camp or position?

I've read that we have actually been coming out of a mini-ice age for around 150 years now. If so, that probably explains a good percentage of the global warming. Now...to look at Al Gore's recent remarks about it all being the Republican administration's fault? He's a jackass. Should we make our best efforts though to consume less, recycle more, find alternative renewable energy sources and increase efficiencies? Most definitely.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Yep, just confirms my belief that the world isn't going to be around forever. I can't wait for heaven!

And I can't wait for Hell! Satan's kinda cute, in a devilish sort of way...

[LargeBoy 0]

Quote

Mission accomplished!!!

is that the new Tom (thumb) Cruise film?

[Shawndiver 0]

He is talking about coral colonies that had been living/growing for 800 years. The reefs themselves have been around for tens of thousands. No more living coral means no more replacement for the reef as the dead coral is destroyed by wind/wave action, and, of course now by mans interaction (meaning physical reef destruction by anchors, boats, souvenir hunting, etc.) Thats where all those white sand beaches came from!

_________________

[billvon 2,990]

>What did the Fish do 801 years ago when the coral reef wasn't there?

Hung out on a different piece of coral in the same reef. The reefs have been around for hundreds of thousands of years; they have actually created islands and coral atolls in many areas. Heck, they measured one reef as being 4500 feet thick! For an animal that grows a few millimeters a year, it takes a LONG time to get that much coral.

Before that? There weren't as many fish in those areas. And before that there were no fish at all.

>If your going to go on with the doom and gloom you need to explain
>why things where fine before . . . .

They weren't fine (by our definitions) before. We rely on a lot of details of our ecosystem (like the fact that it produces a lot of fish, or that it creates a 21% oxygen atmosphere.) Could the earth survive without fish, or without oxygen in its atmosphere? Yes; it did before. Could it survive with less fish? Again, yes. Ask yourself if _you_ (or your kids) want to live in such a world.

[catfishhunter 2]

Think about it you'll get it. At some point what is living now wasn't there. And what was there had to die for the things living now. As you stated the reefs have been around and are made up of DEAD Coral so you have to have DEAD Coral to make up the Reef. So what did the reef do 801 years ago (Using what they said in the article) Something had to have died to make room for the new stuff. And since the reefs are prety fricken huge and the beaches have all the nice white sand..Would seem this happens quite often if the coral lives 800 years it would take eons and eons and eons with out some sort of mass die off every so often...Do the math..doesn't fit with all the other scientific guessing mumbo jumbo about how old everything is.

So again what did the little fishy's do when the 800 year old coral wasn't there? Can you tell me?

I think we'll be ok

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[billvon 2,990]

>So....you need to pigeon-hole everyone into a specific camp or position?

Nope. Just wanted to see what position he had.

>I've read that we have actually been coming out of a mini-ice age
>for around 150 years now. If so, that probably explains a good
> percentage of the global warming.

Nope. It's hundreds of times faster than the gradual change we've seen in the past 1000 years. The climate changes naturally all the time; the problem occurs when we drive it far faster than the ecosphere can adapt.

>Should we make our best efforts though to consume less, recycle
> more, find alternative renewable energy sources and increase
> efficiencies? Most definitely.

I agree, but we are sadly behind in that effort. We have consistently ignored, watered down or demonized solutions to our current problems. We are the most prosperous nation on earth, but are far from being a leader in any of the areas you list above. When someone with half the disposable income we have can do ten times more for the environment, something's wrong with our priorities.

[billvon 2,990]

>So what did the reef do 801 years ago (Using what they said in the
>article) Something had to have died to make room for the new stuff.

Who kept the skydiving aircraft flying before you were born? How can there be any skydiving aircraft if the skydiver that used them wasn't even born yet?

[rushmc 23]

yep

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BIGUN 1,298]

An interesting exhibit. Scientific mumbo jumbo + math.

http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/index.jsp

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[narcimund 0]

Quote

Mother Earth will take care if herself.

If the reef is only 800 years old that means it wasn't there 801 years ago right? So what did the fish do before then?

This reef was 800 years old. Before this one there were others.

The problem is this one is dying died without any replacements.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[sundevil777 102]

If the Kyoto agreement had been accepted by the US and others, and implemented, what do you think would have been the effect? How much would it have helped?

If only the Kyoto treaty was able to control the variations in the sun and volcanic eruptions...

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Gawain 0]

I won't argue that there are some measurable changes in the environment. However, pinning humans as the sole cause of this cycle of change, I believe is irresponsible.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[namgrunt 0]

just for the sake of argument

its warming

what can we thats the U>S>A> do about it.

having traveled outside this country I have seen we are much cleaner as a country than most outhers.
how can we make CHINA clean up or RUSSIA clean up.
there are areas of those 2 that are so toxic unprotected humand die from simple exposure to the air , water and soil.

This country is allready setting and example that few outhere care to follow. on the outher hand they want us to do things that hurt our economy buy excuse themselves from making the same changes.

hummmm

..

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[billvon 2,990]

>However, pinning humans as the sole cause of this cycle of change, I
>believe is irresponsible.

Not sole cause, but main cause. The science isn't that hard to understand.

[billvon 2,990]

>what can we thats the U>S>A> do about it.

Reduce our CO2 emissions. We still emit more CO2 than any other nation.

>how can we make CHINA clean up or RUSSIA clean up.

Diplomacy. Say that we will do it if you do it, and give them incentives to develop nuclear power (say, via thorium or CANDU reactors.)

>This country is allready setting and example that few outhere care to follow.

?? We emit more CO2 than any other country in the world. How is that a good example?