It's starting

[Duckwater 0]

There is an easy way to cure global warming. With all these cars we have, if we all just picked a day where we didnt drive and left our cars outside all day with the A/C running full blast and the windows open, we should decrease the relative temperature of the atmosphere.

During the last century, the average temp has risen 1.1 degrees F. With 300,000,000 cars and trucks in the US, all pumping out cold airconditioned air all day, we should lower the temp of the earth by 1.1 degrees, no problem.

With a/c air at 50 degrees and ambient air temp at 85 degrees and with a volume of cooled air being replaced at 40 square meters an hour per car, we should have the entire atmosphere cooled in 26.3 hours.

You cant argue with math. Where is my nobel prize?

[Flygurl 0]

>Radiative Forcing of Climate Change: Expanding the Concept and Addressing
Uncertainties
>(2005) Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate (BASC)

>I would direct your attention specifically to page 3, which shows the relative
forcings of the
>various climactic factors. Solar variability is shown as .2w/m^2, with error
bars to .1 and
>.5w/m^2. You may also be interested in the references at the end.


Thank you for finally providing sources for your numbers. I will read the
reports and compare them to other reports I've bookmarked/saved.


>If you don't want your statements discussed - don't bring them up. I am the
loudest person
>here concerning anthropogenic climate change. I see you have now requalified
your statement
>to include "people in electoral politics" and that's fine; your statement no
longer includes me. In
>the future, stating such things up front can help avoid confusion.

Use of condescension is a poor debate tactic. It indicates the user is an
elitist. My statement was never about you, and you know it. Both my previous
replies to you included the statement "people in electoral politics".

I find it incredibly offensive that you insist on manipulating what I say, then
refuse to address or even quote-back my complaints about it. I called you out
on multiple instances, in addition your recurring use of the "straw man" fallacy
in your analogies. No response.


>>Whether or not I think you are "right" in what you believe is far less
>>important to me than how you have arrived at your beliefs and how
>>you defend them in the face of criticism.

>Can I take it, then, that you are more interested in debating than the
substance behind the
>debate? If so, then I have misunderstood your posts, and I apologize.

No debate of an ideal or belief can be conducted without establishing, and
debating, the steps taken to arrive at the belief. If you simply debate the
end ideal or belief itself, it's just an argument -- a waste of time. That's
why most arguments never result in persuasion (the end goal).

How people arrive at beliefs is as important as what they believe. People who
believe the "end justifies the means" have created incredible amounts of
suffering, death, and destruction in this world under the guise of good
intentions. If people believe in something without having followed a process of
due-diligence to arrive at the end-belief, they are sheep. When individuals or
groups proselytize their beliefs to others touting the benefits of the
end-result without legitimate discussion and full disclosure of the steps they
followed to arrive at the belief, they are manipulators and most likely hiding
gaps or other inadequacies in their system of evaluation.

An intriguing omission from your fossil-fuel accusations is that aircraft are a
serious source of CO2 and NOx, in addition to adding massive amounts of
water-vapor to the atmosphere. They are the primary source of CO2 in many rural
areas.

Your jump-plane runs on ethanol, right?

________________________________________

"One out of every four American's are suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you."

[dontbounce 0]

Quote

Mother Earth will take care if herself.

If the reef is only 800 years old that means it wasn't there 801 years ago right? So what did the fish do before then?

yes, the earth will heal. After the coral dies, and we cut down all the trees and burn them, and fill the atmosphere with co2. The percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere falls about 50% and we all die from hypoxia. After 10,000 or 50,000 years, the plants will overgrow and devour every trace of our ghost cities. An earth ruled by cockroaches and those damned weeds growing in the cracks on my driveway that resist even "roundup".

The only thing that will save this planet is the extinction of the human race. Unfortunately, we are such a short sighted bunch of monkeys that we will never see it until it's far too late.

We always knew the earth would take care of itself. The real question is, will we be around to see it? Perhaps when the majority of our species graduates from "short-sighted-shit-throwing-monkey" status, to fully rational human being, maybe this won't be an issue. I'm not holding my breath. Part of me hopes we do go extinct. It would be a fitting end to a pompus, self centered bunch of shit-throwing monkeys that thought they ruled the earth.

Any of you armchair climatologists have anything else brilliant to say to discredit the hundreds of years of work of thousands of scientists that do this shit for a living?

[kelpdiver 2]

what's going to make oxygen levels drop in half?

We have means for generating it, you know. And unlike oil, I don't see it dropping faster than we can react.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Your jump-plane runs on ethanol, right?

***

NEW FLASH!

Topic moved from Speakers Corner to the BASE Forum.....1st time in HISTORY!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[twibbles 0]

Quote

"Yep, just confirms my belief that the world isn't going to be around forever. I can't wait for heaven! "


That has to be in the top ten of the stupidest things typed to this forum.

Why is it stupid, is it because you think the world IS going to be around forever? Or that he's going to heaven?

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[twibbles 0]

Quote

>So where did the global cooling stuff come from?

No idea. I never took them seriously.

well, from what i remember reading, the world is suppose to be in the middle of an ice age... The warmish weather we've had for the last couple of thousand year is just a blip.

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[Flygurl 0]

In Reply To
Your jump-plane runs on ethanol, right?

Quote

NEW FLASH!

Topic moved from Speakers Corner to the BASE Forum.....1st time in HISTORY!
_______________________________________________________

________________________________________

"One out of every four American's are suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you."

[billvon 2,991]

>No debate of an ideal or belief can be conducted without
>establishing, and debating, the steps taken to arrive at the belief.

Ah, sorry. I was talking about the science part of the issue, rather than belief. But by all means feel free to talk about your beliefs.

>An intriguing omission from your fossil-fuel accusations is that
> aircraft are a serious source of CO2 and NOx . . .

CO2 - agreed.
NOx - not really a greenhouse gas in the amounts generated. It does break down into ozone (bad, a greenhouse gas) but also helps generate OH- radicals, which reduce methane and other greenhouse gases. It is, however, a pollutant that causes health problems.

>in addition to adding massive amounts of water-vapor to the
>atmosphere.

Not a factor. Oceans, streams, waterfalls etc put many, many orders of magnitude more water into the atmosphere. In addition, water is a 'self regulating' greenhouse gas; if too much enters the atmosphere, clouds form and the resulting albedo change reduces warming overall.

>Your jump-plane runs on ethanol, right?

Nope, JP4. The amount of power I produce offsets the amount of fuel I use for jumping (and driving.) But you're right, we should be moving in that direction. Even today, there are biodiesel/JP4 blends being used in turbines, and E85 is being used in recip aircraft engines. As an added bonus, DZO's using E85 will see a decrease in cost per gallon and an increase in overall power (by about 5%) - which means faster time to altitude and more loads per day.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I sent the CNN article to my uncle since he has massive diving experience in south-east asia as the owner of http://www.fantasea.net/

This is the answer he gave me:

Quote

Hi Justin,

Coral bleaching. There was some in the Gulf of Thailand during the last El Nino period due to ambient seawater temperatures rising.
On our coast (Andaman Sea - Indian Ocean) we did not ave that problem.
The Maldives suffered extensive coral beaching at that time as well but since then the coral has regenerated at quicker rate than scientists believed possible.

Jeroen

[Flygurl 0]

>No debate of an ideal or belief can be conducted without
>establishing, and debating, the steps taken to arrive at the belief.

>>Ah, sorry. I was talking about the science part of the issue, rather >>than belief. But by all means feel free to talk about your beliefs.


BE-LIEF (n) The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another. Mental acceptance of, and conviction in the truth or validity of something.


The fact you attribute your opinion on global warming to the "science part", not your "belief", is an interesting view into your thought process and vocabulary comprehension. It helps explain some of the comments you've made and why you approach debate as you do.

You placed your "belief" in someone else's statements about the research they conducted and the results they observed. Whether you accepted it or dismissed it is based on your "belief" in the group or individual credibility.

My statement stands.

>>Your jump-plane runs on ethanol, right?

>Nope, JP4. The amount of power I produce offsets the amount of >fuel I use for jumping (and driving.)

Spoken like a true idealist.

I see you again failed to address my repeated complaints about your methods of twisting quotations and making false-attributions to bolster your position. 3rd time in a row -- so, whatever. Your actions stand for themselves in the forum history.

________________________________________

"One out of every four American's are suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you."

[billvon 2,991]

>The fact you attribute your opinion on global warming . . . .

I find it funny that you are talking about my opinion on global warming. I have never used the term global warming in this discussion (although you have used it a lot.) I do not believe that the planet is warming everywhere, so it's a somewhat misleading term. But since that's what you expected me to say, that's what you saw. It's a common problem; people stop reading and just start hearing some stereotype they have come to believe in. Sometimes it can be hard to abandon stereotypes.

>Spoken like a true idealist.

An idealist would just hope that the emissions would go away. I did something about it.

>I see you again failed to address my repeated complaints about your
>methods of twisting quotations and making false-attributions to bolster
>your position.

Been there, done that. You will not abandon your preconceptions over my opinions, and I will not try to force you to do that. Believe whatever you choose.

>3rd time in a row -- so, whatever. Your actions stand for
> themselves in the forum history.

As does your attempt to attribute an opinion to me that I did not have. But hey, best of luck to you (especially if you live near the shore on the Gulf Coast!)

[Channman 2]

> Yep, just confirms my belief that the world isn't going to be around forever. I can't wait for heaven!

Heaven i.e. as in the stars/planets and Earth will pass away but my word will remain forever, not an exact quote.

Even as we christains believe in the second coming, the earth will be around well over a thousand years afterwards prior to the white throne judgement. So we need not get to uptight about Global warming, enviromentalist have been predicting the end of time now for many years.

I threw all that in because it should get things a little heated up The earth is a big place and man may have a very small, and I mean a very small part in its heating up. There are powers at play greater than we will ever truely understand that bring about climate change.

I think we are foolish when we begin to think we have all the answers, however we are also foolish if we don't try to make a difference in limiting harmful effects to what has been intrusted to use.

America has made great improvements in limiting harmful pollutants into our air and water, where China, Eastern Europe, North Korea several nations in Latin America to name a few could do more to inprove.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Even as we christains believe in the second coming, the earth will be around well over a thousand years afterwards prior to the white throne judgement. So we need not get to uptight about Global warming, enviromentalist have been predicting the end of time now for many years.

Dayum I wish he would hurry up.. I bet there will be a whole lot of gnashing of teeth by people who thought for sure they had their rapture ticket all lined up and find themselves still here for the tribulation.

I have a feeling a whole lot of the religious right wing will be going the other direction.

But its intereesting to note that the religious right wing does not mind destroying the ecolological balance of the planet because GOD will fix it AFTER the rapture...

[Channman 2]

> I have a feeling a whole lot of the religious right wing will be going the other direction.

Hey, if you don't believe in this stuff, how can you have a say in it.

>But its intereesting to note that the religious right wing does not mind destroying the ecolological balance of the planet because GOD will fix it AFTER the rapture...

I guess you did'nt get much past my first paragraph.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I guess you did'nt get much past my first paragraph.

Eau contrare....
I read it and.. ok so there will be a thousand years of peace and a golden age after Christ shows up and casts all the evil ones into the PIT...

Now apparently you did not read what I wrote....

Because if the planet is screwed up and poluted.. apparently GOD is going to have to fix that for the Golden Age to begin.

Some people actually do believe and live accordingly.... others are just hypocrites that pretend to beleive and do not live accordingly and TRY to make up for it by the Weekly Sunday trip to church to beg for absolution.... then go back to doing the same old crap as soon as they leave church.

You have to wonder how GOD feels about those of you who think this way????

[Channman 2]

That poor girl with tape over her mouth, is she trying to say something? I'm having a hard time understanding her.

Now that I think about it, the tape over her mouth might be a good thing.

[Amazon 7]

From your political perspective I would expect that would be your viewpoint.. too bad its not working for you guys.

The whole stepford wives thing comes to mind. Too bad for you guys there are not enough Phyllis Schlafly/ Ann Coulter Dolls around for you guys.