warpedskydiver 0 #1 April 5, 2006 Video Claims to Show Pilot Being Dragged By NADIA ABOU EL-MAGD, Associated Press Writer 37 minutes ago CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted on the Internet Wednesday in the name of an extremist group claimed to show Iraqi insurgents dragging the burning body of a U.S. pilot on the ground after the crash of an Apache helicopter. Parts of the video were blurry, and the face of the man being dragged was not shown. His clothes were so tattered it was impossible to tell if he was wearing an American military uniform. The U.S. military condemned the posting and said that although reports of a Web site video "suggest that terrorists removed part of a body from the crash site, the authenticity of the video cannot be confirmed." "We are outraged that anyone would create and publish such a despicable video for public exposure," U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Withington said. The video, posted by a group calling itself the Shura Council of Mujahedeen, claimed that its military wing had shot down the craft, which the U.S. military said went down Saturday. According to statements on Islamist Web sites, the Mujahedeen Shura Council was organized in January to consolidate al-Qaida in Iraq and other insurgent groups. The move was seen as an effort by Iraqi insurgents to lower the profile of al-Qaida leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian, whose mass attacks against Shiite civilians have tarnished the image of the insurgents among many Iraqis. The footage in the video, which also was e-mailed to reporters, was blurry but the helicopter could be seen clearly. However, it was not possible to see if it had U.S. markings. The video also clearly showed the bloody, burning body of a man being dragged through a field. The extremist group, in audio attached to the video, said he was a U.S. helicopter pilot. In its statement, the U.S. military said it confirmed that the two pilots in the downed helicopter had died, and it had recovered "all available remains found on the scene, given the catastrophic nature of the crash." The AH-64D Apache Longbow crashed at about 5:30 p.m. Saturday due to possible hostile fire west of Youssifiyah while conducting a combat air patrol, the military said. Youssifiyah is about 10 miles southwest of Baghdad. About 24 hours later, the military released a statement saying the pilots were "presumed dead" and that recovery efforts were underway, indicating they had not fully secured the site or retrieved the bodies. Youssifiyah is located in the "triangle of death," a religiously mixed area notorious for attacks by Sunni extremists against Shiites traveling between Baghdad and religious shrines south of the capital. The Albany (N.Y.) Times Union reported that Capt. Timothy Moshier, 25, of nearby Bethlehem, was killed Saturday when the Apache helicopter he was piloting crashed at around the same time and place southwest of Baghdad. He leaves behind his wife, Katherine, and their 10-month-old daughter, Natalie, the newspaper said.Quote I think these animals need to be culled from human existance. Choosing to fight us is no biggie...we can always kill you in combat.Choosing to desicrate our dead and then film it to be shown as entertainment to those who hate us is a crime against humanity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LargeBoy 0 #2 April 5, 2006 there's always two sides to every story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dolph 0 #3 April 5, 2006 Quotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #4 April 5, 2006 I wish i had been within range with a rifle...I would have treated all present to nice belly shots with frangible or ballistic tips Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LargeBoy 0 #5 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. i'm not saying that, obviously it's totally wrong Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydyvr 0 #6 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. i'm not saying that, obviously it's totally wrong Which renders your original comment USELESS. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #7 April 5, 2006 I can only assume its the 'dragging' that is so offensive, seeing as how burning corpses seems to be ok: Quote The US military has launched a criminal investigation into alleged misconduct by its troops in Afghanistan, including the burning of Taleban corpses. The move came after an Australian TV station ran footage of what it says was US soldiers burning the remains. The footage shows other troops apparently taunting residents of a nearby village, which they believed to be harbouring the Taleban. The act of burning corpses is regarded as a sacrilege in Islam. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4359128.stm Monkey see, monkey do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LargeBoy 0 #8 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. i'm not saying that, obviously it's totally wrong Which renders your original comment USELESS. ok, i'll play your game...... two sides to every story.... what were the Apache pilots doing before they got shot down? where they killing the same civilians that then killed them? what mission where they on at the time.... and if you dont like the heat in the kitchen, do you know what you should do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #9 April 5, 2006 >Choosing to desicrate our dead and then film it to be shown as >entertainment to those who hate us is a crime against humanity. I think both sides should stop doing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dolph 0 #10 April 5, 2006 Yup such acts are committed on both sides - even the one struggling to maintain a moral high ground. And it is at some level a loss of humanity and an ability to see other humans as fundamentally different. But that's what hate combined with (perhaps chosen)ignorance does, isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,489 #11 April 5, 2006 QuoteI think these animals need to be culled from human existance. Choosing to desicrate our dead and then film it to be shown as entertainment to those who hate us is a crime against humanity. So you support the death penalty for US and coalition troops who have done the same thing?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #12 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. Yes, that's what the sissy liberals call "cultural relativism". By this rule, anything goes. Especially if it's anti-American. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #13 April 5, 2006 Quotetroops in Afghanistan, including the burning of Taleban corpses. Okay, next time we'll just leave them out to rot, spread disease, and be torn apart by wild animals. Can you discern a difference between sanitary disposal, and mutilation as a symbol of hatred? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites avenfoto 0 #14 April 5, 2006 QuoteYes, that's what the sissy liberals.... get a life dude.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ViperPilot 0 #15 April 5, 2006 Good for you, you found a minute percentage of the military who are pieces of shit like this. Everyone, not just you Bill, needs to stop kidding themselves and saying the immoral behavior is equal on both sides. Yeah there are fucking idiots in the US military, but overall, we're not even close to be in the same immoral league as the piece of shit insurgents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ViperPilot 0 #16 April 5, 2006 QuoteSo you support the death penalty for US and coalition troops who have done the same thing? And exactly when have US troops lit dead bodies on fire and paraded them around the streets like trophys? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #17 April 5, 2006 >Yeah there are fucking idiots in the US military, but overall, we're >not even close to be in the same immoral league as the piece of shit >insurgents. I agree. There are fuckheads in our military; there are piece of shit insurgents. That does not make our military all evil. Nor does it make all insurgents evil. And it _certainly_ does not make all arabs, or all muslims, evil. There was once no question that we had the moral upper hand. That distance has been narrowing lately. We are still better than the terrorists we are fighting - but it is our very great interest to stop providing evidence that we are not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n23x 0 #18 April 5, 2006 Weren't you hoorahing and all happy when someone posted pictures of their "kill" in Iraq, some in which they were next to the body with their "trophy" shot? Correct me if I'm wrong. The thread got binned pretty quick, so I cannot dredge it back up. Fact of the matter: Both sides do it. It is repulsive. But don't delude yourself into thinking that it's a one sided street, and that it shows how inhuman they are and how human we are. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #19 April 5, 2006 There was lots of chest beating going on in these forums when clips were shown of "insurgents" getting blown to pieces from a helicopter. See, showing video of killing and of dead bodies are only cool if you are the one doing the killing. If it is the other side, well then it is immoral and really should not be tolerated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #20 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuotetroops in Afghanistan, including the burning of Taleban corpses. Okay, next time we'll just leave them out to rot, spread disease, and be torn apart by wild animals. Can you discern a difference between sanitary disposal, and mutilation as a symbol of hatred? QuoteSome footage shows what the programme describes as the corpses of two Taleban fighters laid out facing Mecca and then being burned in what the reporter, John Martinkus, describes as a "deliberate desecration of Muslim beliefs". Islamic tradition states that bodies should be washed, prayed for, wrapped in white cloth and buried within 24 hours. The soldiers initially said they were burning the bodies for hygiene reasons, the programme reports. We strongly condemn any disrespect to human bodies regardless of whether they are those of enemies or friends Afghan presidential spokesman Karim Rahimi Later footage shows two US soldiers reading from a notebook messages which they said had already been broadcast to villagers. "Attention Taleban you are cowardly dogs," the message reads. "You allowed your fighters to be laid down facing West and burnt. "You are too scared to retrieve their bodies. This just proves you are the lady boys we always believed you to be." Sounds more like an intimidation tactic than just a mere sanitary disposal. The whole fucking war is immoral. Both sides are wrong. This shit will never end."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydemon2 0 #21 April 5, 2006 QuoteThere was lots of chest beating going on in these forums when clips were shown of "insurgents" getting blown to pieces from a helicopter. See, showing video of killing and of dead bodies are only cool if you are the one doing the killing. If it is the other side, well then it is immoral and really should not be tolerated. Its kinda like when your team loses the game and you cheer the other side? Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone! I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ViperPilot 0 #22 April 6, 2006 QuoteAnd it _certainly_ does not make all arabs, or all muslims, evil. Never said that. QuoteThat distance has been narrowing lately. How so? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ViperPilot 0 #23 April 6, 2006 Quote Weren't you hoorahing and all happy when someone posted pictures of their "kill" in Iraq, some in which they were next to the body with their "trophy" shot? Don't know what thread you're talking about...if it's the one about that really far shot, then you're just blowing smoke up your own butt. I said nice shot, that was it....and it was a nice shot. QuoteBoth sides do it. It is repulsive. But don't delude yourself into thinking that it's a one sided street, and that it shows how inhuman they are and how human we are. Both sides do what?...... Hang charred bodies from bridges and rally around them and cheer? Light bodies on fire and drag them through the streets in triumph? Calmly walk into a hospital and detonate a bomb, knowing full well they're killing women, children and medical personnel...no soldiers? Walk into a school room, drag 5 or so teachers out in the street and execute them? Slice children's heads off with machetes because they cooperated with the "infadels"? Take countless civilian hostages, slicing heads off of many of them...boobytrapping several of the bodies in the process? (mind you these are aid workers related 0% to the military). Ok there's a small fraction of what one side has done (I'll leave it to you to figure out which)...what's the other done? Taken inappropriate pictures Verbal harassment Sleep deprivation put the other side in jail ....funny, the "bad" things that happen to the other side are similar things that happen to military personnel in training. Oh my God, someone yelled at them...oh my God, they were kept awake! Say it aint so.... please, get off your humanitarian soap box, it's disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #24 April 6, 2006 >How so? When we excoriate the insurgents (or anyone) for torturing people to death - good for us. We should not stand for that, nor should anyone. When we torture Iraqis to death, it brings us a little closer to the people we claim to despise. Eventually people may start to think that we are part of the problem. And if that happens, then we are done in Iraq. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #25 April 6, 2006 >Both sides do what?...... And which side . . . Hangs people by their arms and beats them to death? Pulls people's nails out to extract confessions? Rapes male prisoners with brooms? If this is really going to devolve to "well, dragging someone to death is worse than beating them to death" then you've already lost. 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LargeBoy 0 #2 April 5, 2006 there's always two sides to every story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #3 April 5, 2006 Quotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #4 April 5, 2006 I wish i had been within range with a rifle...I would have treated all present to nice belly shots with frangible or ballistic tips Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LargeBoy 0 #5 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. i'm not saying that, obviously it's totally wrong Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #6 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. i'm not saying that, obviously it's totally wrong Which renders your original comment USELESS. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #7 April 5, 2006 I can only assume its the 'dragging' that is so offensive, seeing as how burning corpses seems to be ok: Quote The US military has launched a criminal investigation into alleged misconduct by its troops in Afghanistan, including the burning of Taleban corpses. The move came after an Australian TV station ran footage of what it says was US soldiers burning the remains. The footage shows other troops apparently taunting residents of a nearby village, which they believed to be harbouring the Taleban. The act of burning corpses is regarded as a sacrilege in Islam. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4359128.stm Monkey see, monkey do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LargeBoy 0 #8 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. i'm not saying that, obviously it's totally wrong Which renders your original comment USELESS. ok, i'll play your game...... two sides to every story.... what were the Apache pilots doing before they got shot down? where they killing the same civilians that then killed them? what mission where they on at the time.... and if you dont like the heat in the kitchen, do you know what you should do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #9 April 5, 2006 >Choosing to desicrate our dead and then film it to be shown as >entertainment to those who hate us is a crime against humanity. I think both sides should stop doing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #10 April 5, 2006 Yup such acts are committed on both sides - even the one struggling to maintain a moral high ground. And it is at some level a loss of humanity and an ability to see other humans as fundamentally different. But that's what hate combined with (perhaps chosen)ignorance does, isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #11 April 5, 2006 QuoteI think these animals need to be culled from human existance. Choosing to desicrate our dead and then film it to be shown as entertainment to those who hate us is a crime against humanity. So you support the death penalty for US and coalition troops who have done the same thing?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #12 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuotethere's always two sides to every story Yes, which makes taking a dead body, pour on fuel on it, light up and drag on field perfectly reasonable and acceptable behaviour. Yes, that's what the sissy liberals call "cultural relativism". By this rule, anything goes. Especially if it's anti-American. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 April 5, 2006 Quotetroops in Afghanistan, including the burning of Taleban corpses. Okay, next time we'll just leave them out to rot, spread disease, and be torn apart by wild animals. Can you discern a difference between sanitary disposal, and mutilation as a symbol of hatred? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avenfoto 0 #14 April 5, 2006 QuoteYes, that's what the sissy liberals.... get a life dude.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #15 April 5, 2006 Good for you, you found a minute percentage of the military who are pieces of shit like this. Everyone, not just you Bill, needs to stop kidding themselves and saying the immoral behavior is equal on both sides. Yeah there are fucking idiots in the US military, but overall, we're not even close to be in the same immoral league as the piece of shit insurgents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #16 April 5, 2006 QuoteSo you support the death penalty for US and coalition troops who have done the same thing? And exactly when have US troops lit dead bodies on fire and paraded them around the streets like trophys? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #17 April 5, 2006 >Yeah there are fucking idiots in the US military, but overall, we're >not even close to be in the same immoral league as the piece of shit >insurgents. I agree. There are fuckheads in our military; there are piece of shit insurgents. That does not make our military all evil. Nor does it make all insurgents evil. And it _certainly_ does not make all arabs, or all muslims, evil. There was once no question that we had the moral upper hand. That distance has been narrowing lately. We are still better than the terrorists we are fighting - but it is our very great interest to stop providing evidence that we are not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #18 April 5, 2006 Weren't you hoorahing and all happy when someone posted pictures of their "kill" in Iraq, some in which they were next to the body with their "trophy" shot? Correct me if I'm wrong. The thread got binned pretty quick, so I cannot dredge it back up. Fact of the matter: Both sides do it. It is repulsive. But don't delude yourself into thinking that it's a one sided street, and that it shows how inhuman they are and how human we are. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #19 April 5, 2006 There was lots of chest beating going on in these forums when clips were shown of "insurgents" getting blown to pieces from a helicopter. See, showing video of killing and of dead bodies are only cool if you are the one doing the killing. If it is the other side, well then it is immoral and really should not be tolerated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #20 April 5, 2006 QuoteQuotetroops in Afghanistan, including the burning of Taleban corpses. Okay, next time we'll just leave them out to rot, spread disease, and be torn apart by wild animals. Can you discern a difference between sanitary disposal, and mutilation as a symbol of hatred? QuoteSome footage shows what the programme describes as the corpses of two Taleban fighters laid out facing Mecca and then being burned in what the reporter, John Martinkus, describes as a "deliberate desecration of Muslim beliefs". Islamic tradition states that bodies should be washed, prayed for, wrapped in white cloth and buried within 24 hours. The soldiers initially said they were burning the bodies for hygiene reasons, the programme reports. We strongly condemn any disrespect to human bodies regardless of whether they are those of enemies or friends Afghan presidential spokesman Karim Rahimi Later footage shows two US soldiers reading from a notebook messages which they said had already been broadcast to villagers. "Attention Taleban you are cowardly dogs," the message reads. "You allowed your fighters to be laid down facing West and burnt. "You are too scared to retrieve their bodies. This just proves you are the lady boys we always believed you to be." Sounds more like an intimidation tactic than just a mere sanitary disposal. The whole fucking war is immoral. Both sides are wrong. This shit will never end."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydemon2 0 #21 April 5, 2006 QuoteThere was lots of chest beating going on in these forums when clips were shown of "insurgents" getting blown to pieces from a helicopter. See, showing video of killing and of dead bodies are only cool if you are the one doing the killing. If it is the other side, well then it is immoral and really should not be tolerated. Its kinda like when your team loses the game and you cheer the other side? Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone! I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #22 April 6, 2006 QuoteAnd it _certainly_ does not make all arabs, or all muslims, evil. Never said that. QuoteThat distance has been narrowing lately. How so? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #23 April 6, 2006 Quote Weren't you hoorahing and all happy when someone posted pictures of their "kill" in Iraq, some in which they were next to the body with their "trophy" shot? Don't know what thread you're talking about...if it's the one about that really far shot, then you're just blowing smoke up your own butt. I said nice shot, that was it....and it was a nice shot. QuoteBoth sides do it. It is repulsive. But don't delude yourself into thinking that it's a one sided street, and that it shows how inhuman they are and how human we are. Both sides do what?...... Hang charred bodies from bridges and rally around them and cheer? Light bodies on fire and drag them through the streets in triumph? Calmly walk into a hospital and detonate a bomb, knowing full well they're killing women, children and medical personnel...no soldiers? Walk into a school room, drag 5 or so teachers out in the street and execute them? Slice children's heads off with machetes because they cooperated with the "infadels"? Take countless civilian hostages, slicing heads off of many of them...boobytrapping several of the bodies in the process? (mind you these are aid workers related 0% to the military). Ok there's a small fraction of what one side has done (I'll leave it to you to figure out which)...what's the other done? Taken inappropriate pictures Verbal harassment Sleep deprivation put the other side in jail ....funny, the "bad" things that happen to the other side are similar things that happen to military personnel in training. Oh my God, someone yelled at them...oh my God, they were kept awake! Say it aint so.... please, get off your humanitarian soap box, it's disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #24 April 6, 2006 >How so? When we excoriate the insurgents (or anyone) for torturing people to death - good for us. We should not stand for that, nor should anyone. When we torture Iraqis to death, it brings us a little closer to the people we claim to despise. Eventually people may start to think that we are part of the problem. And if that happens, then we are done in Iraq. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #25 April 6, 2006 >Both sides do what?...... And which side . . . Hangs people by their arms and beats them to death? Pulls people's nails out to extract confessions? Rapes male prisoners with brooms? If this is really going to devolve to "well, dragging someone to death is worse than beating them to death" then you've already lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
