Mexican Immigrant March in Dallas

[racer42 0]

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Look shotgun, if you want to be all reasonable, you can get the hell out of SC.

Hey, I already tried being UNreasonable, by suggesting that we should just overthrow the Mexican government... but nobody wanted to argue or agree with me on that.

But, hmm... maybe that wasn't such an unreasonable suggestion...

Yeah, I think we've already done that a couple of times.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[billvon 2,991]

>What would you suggest we do to help Mexico's economy?

I don't know. Cutting our economic aid is certainly _not_ the way to do it though - which is what my original comment concerned.

>The solution for both countries is obviously not to continue to allow
> illegals to pour over the border unchecked.

I agree. So what's the solution? We can stop it if we are willing to spend the money. We're not. We can stop it if we help Mexico improve their own economy. Even if we _can_ do that it will take years if not decades. So where do we go from here?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>What would you suggest we do to help Mexico's economy?

I don't know. Cutting our economic aid is certainly _not_ the way to do it though - which is what my original comment concerned.

>The solution for both countries is obviously not to continue to allow
> illegals to pour over the border unchecked.

I agree. So what's the solution? We can stop it if we are willing to spend the money. We're not. We can stop it if we help Mexico improve their own economy. Even if we _can_ do that it will take years if not decades. So where do we go from here?

I don't know either. Perhaps if V. Fox had to deal with an angry population pissed off about his economic policies, he'd make some changes. An lynch mob outside the Presidential Palace is a great motivator for change.

-

[billvon 2,991]

>An lynch mob outside the Presidential Palace is a great motivator for change.

Perhaps. But unfortunately it is an even better reason to flee your country.

[rocketdog 0]

last time i checked, illegal still meant ILLEGAL. law-abiding = bologna!

why does the US government MAKE immigration laws if we're not going to uphold them? what is the point of the $ we put out for border patrol if we're going to let them all come anyway?!

i find it hard to believe that a lot of them want to become American citizens. i think it's more like they want in on American $ (which is understandable). yet it pisses me off that they want these rights/policies when they will not assimilate with American culture (you know they've been in the states more than 1 year, yet still no need to speak English or pay taxes like everyone else?).

a rule is a rule is a rule. if you make an exception for one & you have to make the exception for all -- can of worms!

~hollywood

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[billvon 2,991]

>last time i checked, illegal still meant ILLEGAL. law-abiding = bologna!

I never claimed that illegal immigrants are law-abiding. Did you mean to answer someone else?

> find it hard to believe that a lot of them want to become American
> citizens. i think it's more like they want in on American $ (which is
> understandable).

If anything, that makes them more american than anything else.

>yet it pisses me off that they want these rights/policies when they will
>not assimilate with American culture (you know they've been in the
> states more than 1 year, yet still no need to speak English or pay
> taxes like everyone else?).

Most _do_ speak english. You only notice the ones who don't. Heck, even the ones coming across the border often speak english - and that's starting in a non-english-speaking country!

Taxes - well, send in your taxes, go to jail and then be deported. A good incentive not to pay them. (Few would if that were the outcome.)

Illegal immigration is a serious problem. The answers are not clear. Build a better fence? Would cost more than we are willing to pay. Arrest them all? Hard to do when employers are actively trying to evade detection. Go after the employers? Politically hard to do. ("My opponent spends his time arresting american farmers for growing food to put on the tables of american families!")

One thing that will help is to make more immigration legal. Let anyone who doesn't have a criminal record become a US citizen if they so choose. That way they all pay their taxes and learn english like everyone else.

Another thing that will help is to help Mexico with its economy. Less poverty = fewer people wanting work in the US.

But there are no easy answers.

[masterrig 1]

Another thing that will help is to help Mexico with its economy. Less poverty = fewer people wanting work in the US.

Hard to accomplish when dealing with such a corrupt government as Mexico's. (That, was told to me by an illegal who lives across the street from me.)


But there are no easy answers.

[Mikki_ZH 0]

Don’t forget:
Your all have uncles, aunts, fathers, mothers, grandparents or other relatives that once where immigrants if you are a US citizen unless you are a native American…

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[masterrig 1]

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Don’t forget:
Your all have uncles, aunts, fathers, mothers, grandparents or other relatives that once where immigrants if you are a US citizen unless you are a native American…

____________________________________

The difference there is, they were LEGAL Those folks did it the right way... they didn't sneak into this country. We are talking ILLEGAL aliens, here.


Chuck

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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Don’t forget:
Your all have uncles, aunts, fathers, mothers, grandparents or other relatives that once where immigrants if you are a US citizen unless you are a native American…

____________________________________

The difference there is, they were LEGAL Those folks did it the right way... they didn't sneak into this country. We are talking ILLEGAL aliens, here.


Chuck

They did not have to sneak in because the country was not closed like it is today. Believe me, if it would be that easy to get into the US as it was in the old times, illegal immigrants would do it legally. I’m sure it’s not fun to always be afraid that you get thrown out the country you live in.
Read TC Boyles Book America if you like to read. It gives you a nice inside of illegal immigrants in the US.

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[masterrig 1]

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Don’t forget:
Your all have uncles, aunts, fathers, mothers, grandparents or other relatives that once where immigrants if you are a US citizen unless you are a native American…

____________________________________

The difference there is, they were LEGAL Those folks did it the right way... they didn't sneak into this country. We are talking ILLEGAL aliens, here.


Chuck

They did not have to sneak in because the country was not closed like it is today. Believe me, if it would be that easy to get into the US as it was in the old times, illegal immigrants would do it legally. I’m sure it’s not fun to always be afraid that you get thrown out the country you live in.
Read TC Boyles Book America if you like to read. It gives you a nice inside of illegal immigrants in the US.

____________________________________

It is that easy to get into this country... just walk across the Southwest border! I've spoken with illegals and have gotten their story, first-hand.
ediit to add: Also, we have no idea either, of the people who cross illegally as to whether or not they are criminals, or carry diseases or if, they are just hard working people who are looking to better their lives. We just need to know, 'who' is coming to this country to live. What's wrong with that? Other countries of this world control their borders. Is it so wrong that we control ours?
Chuck

[billvon 2,991]

>Also, we have no idea either, of the people who cross illegally as
>to whether or not they are criminals, or carry diseases or if, they are just
>hard working people who are looking to better their lives. We just need to
>know, 'who' is coming to this country to live. What's wrong with that?

Nothing at all. But that's not what we do. If a healthy, law abiding mexican shows up at our border, and says "I just want to work in the US" - we keep him out. We don't just make sure that he doesn't carry disease or check his legal status. We close the door.

So the problem is that, the way things are set up now, anyone who really wants to come to the US has effectively two choices - come in illegally, or wait years for a slim chance at getting in legally. And changing _that_ will have far more effect on illegal immigration than building a better fence.

[masterrig 1]

changing _that_ will have far more effect on illegal immigration than building a better fence.

[billvon 2,991]

>They'll just figure-out, a better way to get through it!

Exactly! And if that 'better way' is coming in legally, they will do that. Don't forget - their objective is to get into the US, not to break laws.

>As the Chief Border Patrol Agent in charge of the Border Patrol put it; "We
> have ignored our borders too long!" Sad but true... we have.

True. We have to fix both sides of the equation - make it easier for people who want to enter legally, and make it harder for those who don't.

[jeiber 0]

Anybody who comes to the U.S. illegally, is not a law abiding individual. Period.

Here's my solution:

U.S. tells Mexico to (dramatically) increase border security. If they don't comply, then stop all aid to Mexico, and direct 100% of the funds to increasing border security, until Mexico does begin to comply. Increased compliance = increased aid.

As far as the immigrants that are already here, offer 'amnesty week', where they are allowed to apply for citizenship IF they have not been convicted of a crime in the U.S. After a 3 years 'probation' period, they will be awarded citizenship.

Establish a prison in Mexico for immigration violators - not some U.S. minimum security country club prison. This will not be a fun place to go. They will provide enough food and water to (barely) sustain life. Nothing more. All illegal immigrants caught after amnesty week will be sent to this hell hole for some (short) period of time. Repeat offenders will spend more time there, and likely not survive conditions over the period of an extended sentence.

Some other random thoughts:

Establish a waiting list for immigrants. Those caught in the U.S. illegally are no longer eligible for citizenship.

Illegal immigrants will have extremely limited legal rights in the U.S. Illegal immigrants who have been convicted of felonies in the U.S. have no rights. In other words; open season on immigrant felons.

The theory behind my plan is that it will allow law abiding people to become U.S. citizens, and the criminal elements will be reduced.

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[billvon 2,991]

>U.S. tells Mexico to (dramatically) increase border security.

They will likely say "Sure, no problem, if you pay for it." If we don't, they will likely give us some happy words and do little.

> If they don't comply, then stop all aid to Mexico, and direct 100% of
> the funds to increasing border security, until Mexico does begin to
>comply. Increased compliance = increased aid.

$30 million could hire perhaps 300 agents; that's one agent per every 20 miles of the border. Think that will do much? Could you protect 20 miles of border with a beat up truck, a gun and a flashlight?

Alternatively, it could build five miles of fence a year, of the type we currently have near Tijuana. At that rate it would take only 400 years to finish it. Of course by that time the first sections will have long since rusted into nothingness.

And the end result of eliminating aid would be another (small) blow to the mexican economy, leading to more border crossers. A lose-lose situation.

It is possible to close the border with 90% effectiveness. But it would cost hundreds of billions, far from the $30 million we give to Mexico.

>Establish a prison in Mexico for immigration violators - not some U.S.
> minimum security country club prison. This will not be a fun place to
>go. They will provide enough food and water to (barely) sustain life.

?? And who would run this prison? Mexico? The immigrants would then be subject to Mexican law. The US? Most countries are understandably leery of US secret prisons. (Would _you_ allow a friend of yours to be held in a US prison, operated by Mexico, if he had not violated any US laws?)

> Repeat offenders will spend more time there, and likely not survive
>conditions over the period of an extended sentence.

Ah, so torture them to death! Treat a serial rapist-murderer better than a guy who wants to pick tomatoes. Good plan. I'm sure it wouldn't backfire on us.

>Establish a waiting list for immigrants. Those caught in the U.S.
>illegally are no longer eligible for citizenship.

We have that now.

>The theory behind my plan is that it will allow law abiding people to
> become U.S. citizens, and the criminal elements will be reduced.

That's a good theory, but to make it effective we'd have to drastically increase the number of people we allow to immigrate.

[jlmiracle 7]

R. PRESIDENT, I'M HEADED TO MEXICO


David M. Bresnahan
April 1, 2006
NewsWithViews.com
Dear President Bush:

I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and
I
would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border
from
the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you
can
help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
quotas
and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.
So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm
on my
way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
need,
whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the
flag
pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
access to
government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort
to
learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
from
Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers
speak
English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on
my
car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and
don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and
never
say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the
economy.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things
for
all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres.
Fox
won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail
hunting
with your V.P.
Thank you so much for your kind help.
Sincerely,
David M. Bresnahan

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[mnealtx 0]

Perfect shot - 10X!!!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[txhoss 0]

Here is my take, its worth at least what you paid for it.

The primary function of a government is to defend its borders. That is not negotiable. WE ARE NOT

If the illegal's continue to come over then eventually, in 100 years or so, the mind set and culture that they brought with them will overtake the norm that we have (trashing our economy one i law breaker at a time).

If you dilute something enough it becomes what you "cut" it with.

Have you people forgotten that these people's first action taken in the U.S.A is an act of crime. One word ... ILLEGAL. I would not own a pound of weed, it is illegal (not right), would you?

If the problem is the business being hurt without cheap labor then the answer is to PUNISH THEM. Sounds funny ... how about if they had REASON to lobby for the inactment of new laws then we would be good for thier workers? At least the illegals would be paying into the SSI and to the general coffers. We are just letting them get away with crap we would not take from U.S. citizens.

Last of all, JUST REMEMBER TO VOTE when it comes time. It is going to be a HUGE issue this coming election, pay attention to the issues.

Have Rig will travel ...

[kallend 2,027]

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One word ... ILLEGAL. I would not own a pound of weed, it is illegal (not right), would you? .

Do you ALWAYS drive at or below the speed limit, and come to a full stop at stop signs?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

probably not, but he made himself feel all warm and fuzzy inside when he typed it...that's got to be worth soemthing.

[rehmwa 2]

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One word ... ILLEGAL. I would not own a pound of weed, it is illegal (not right), would you? .

Do you ALWAYS drive at or below the speed limit, and come to a full stop at stop signs?

So you consider owning a pound of weed equivalent to minor traffic infractions. That's nice. Let's find that line - which of the below is acceptable to you if you can get away with it?

Minor traffic violations? no big deal
Owning illegal pot? no big deal
Stealing little stuff? __________
Owning other drugs? __________
Selling Pot? __________
Selling other drugs? __________
Stealing someone's wallet ___________
Stealing someon's car ____________
Cutting someone up just a little bit __________
Killing someone, but only if you think they are bad ________
Killing someone just for laughs ____________
torturing children __________
Buying and driving an SUV because it looks nice ________

I'd clearly differentiate with an act of driving (maybe incorrectly) that appears to be a minor nuisance or even a non-issue (slight speeding) to supporting an industry (illegal drugs) that ruins and takes the lives of people all over the world.

Wow - that did feel all warm and fuzzy.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So you consider owning a pound of weed equivalent to minor traffic infractions. That's nice. Let's find that line - which of the below is acceptable to you if you can get away with it?

Not at all similar to the statement originally made, but nice attempt at a sidetrack.

The original statement was that the gentleman would not own weed cause it was illegal. There were no other qualifiers. Which is exactly what kallend reacted to.

[rehmwa 2]

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Not at all similar to the statement originally made, but nice attempt at a sidetrack.

here we go -

It's not a sidetrack - I made an inference - just like you did now. I really want to know which laws he considers worthy of following and which ones he doesn't (we all have our personal lines in sand) - the inference here is that owning pot isn't a big deal (much like speeding and rolling stops). I disagree and don't see why you guys have to belittle the original poster for that same position instead of just working the content.

How about you? Where do you draw you line where you personally just say the Law is 'sorta' ok to follow but only when you feel like it?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How about you? Where do you draw you line where you personally just say the Law is 'sorta' ok to follow but only when you feel like it?

depends on the situation....but I could see it go all the way up to murder. I am certainly not going to say that I won't do something...anything...cause it is illegal.