pchapman 279 #1 April 21, 2017 So, what's the trend these days for elastics on Phantom canopies or the like? Lately when packing pilot bailout rigs, I've seen more half width elastics, sometimes cut from 1 1/4" elastics, sometimes I believe from 1 1/2" ones. In the old days when Phantoms were still skydiving reserves, from any reputable rigger I only saw the "proper" 1 1/4" elastics used on the diapers, plus the 2" ones for the two closing stows. While old manuals allowed no variation, newer ones do: Quote If variation in the rubber bands thickness or width makes it too strong or “ornery” for proper stowing tension, it is permissible to scissors cut them in half lengthways. Although that still leaves it a bit open whether it is "only if you aren't good enough to rig it properly". Still, when I called National in 2012 they allowed alternative elastics "as long as proper tension is maintained". Also, a rig built a couple years earlier and only packed at the factory at FFE (who seemed to be doing the sewing work for National), did use half width elastics, both natural rubber and some black ones that I guess were synthetic. All in all I'm more inclined nowadays to go with half width elastics, although I'd keep tension balanced by sticking with all full width or all half width. P.S. - I'm talking about round canopies. Bonus points for anyone who remembers National also built square mains and reserves for a little while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #2 April 22, 2017 pchapman P.S. - I'm talking about round canopies. Bonus points for anyone who remembers National also built square mains and reserves for a little while. Also called Phantom's. So had to learn to ask if it was a National Phantom Square or Round. Between kevlar bands, diaper changes and acid mesh testing (did anyone send in the report like you were supposed to?) my old Phantoms are mains. And I don't much like new Phantoms but I do them. Somewhere I have video from my helmet under a Phantom 24 in about 1985. To your question I still use 1 1/4 when needed. And there rubber bands not 'elastics' you damn Canuck.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safetyjim 5 #3 April 22, 2017 Most of what I see from others are half-widths. For National Phantoms, I use half-width 2" bands (the 2" size is recommended in the manual) for the two grommet stows, then half-width 1¼" bands for the rest of the diaper. I don't double-wrap any of the diaper stows. Inside the container, for the two pack tray line stows, I use half-width 2" bands, double-wrapped, as specified in the manual. Like you, I try to keep stow tensions balanced. It irritates me when I see that a rigger has used different size bands or widths on the two grommets or among the other diaper stows. That's just sloppy. Half-widths by half-wits. I guess that includes me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 April 22, 2017 I am backing councilman on this issue. "Phantoms" suffered lots of Service Bulletins during the 1980s, so National replaced it with "Phantom Aerostar" canopies in 1990. Aerostars have so many minor design changes that they only vaguely resemble original Phantoms. More recently, National has been selling FFE Preserve 1 canopies in PEPs. That makes the youngest original Phantom 27 years old! "It is the recommendation of National Parachutes .... maximum 20 year service life from the date of manufacture ..." Perhaps the "20 years" (mentioned in the newer manual) was a subtle way for National to retire its oldest canopies?????? GQ Security published a 5 year service life after some of their round canopies (sewn during the early 1980s) suffered from the same acid mesh problems as Phantoms. That matches my practical experience rigging in the Southern California desert. Most SoCal lofts refuse to repack pilot emergency parachutes more than 20 or 25 years old because they are faded, frayed and filthy. Furthermore, sunlight damage to harnesses makes them suspect of failing before Minimum Breaking Strength. Also consider all the minor damage done by 20-ish years of bromocreasol testing and tensile testing. Ergo, I will only repack original Phantoms if the packing data card shows less than 40 repacks (similar to Performance Designs' standards for their reserves). But those are getting fewer and fewer ..... If you want to hear any more of my opinions about Phantoms, just read the advic Manley Butler published circa 1990. Hummmmppppffff! Perhaps this is a problem of "generational stagnation." Old pilots and riggers fondly remember the coolest and most beautiful parachutes that were as cool and beautiful as they were in their prime. Twenty or thirty years later, it is tough to admit that their original parachute is no longer the coolest and most beautiful parachute available. Even more painful is old pilots and rigger's admitting that they are no longer the coolest and most beautiful man on the plane!!!! Either that or their brains ossified 19 years ago and please do not waste their time trying to teach them anything new! Hah! Hah! In a perfect world, all those round PEPs - sewn during the acid mesh era (early 1980s) - would be replaced by shiny, beautiful Aviators or Softies containing 250 square foot ram-air reserves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #5 April 22, 2017 Agree with Councilman and what's his name. I order "narrower" "smaller" stow bands from Keener. I am not at my loft to say the measurements. I think FFE makes their 357 Magnum pilot chutes. I don't know who is making their H/C's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites