Lindsey 0 #26 April 19, 2006 Quote Quote I assume you believe that OJ Simpson exists. Would it bother you to put his name on our money? Don't you think God carries a bit more weight than O.J.? I do. But some people don't, and those people's opinions are just as valid as the Believers'. But as far as whether God is mentioned in the Pledge or whether "In God We Trust" is on our money doesn't weigh too heavily on my mind one way or another.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #27 April 19, 2006 I believe they did the "separation thing" is because they came from a place with a state religion (Church of England) with the King as head of the church. I doubt they had too many issues with Jesus per se. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #28 April 19, 2006 >Don't you think God carries a bit more weight than O.J.? I do. Me too. But not everyone does. And that's why the government should not be in the business of deciding who we trust and who we don't. (Or who we pray to.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #29 April 19, 2006 Quote It's been said money is the root of all Evil, yet it has "In God We Trust" written on it. Its the love of money that is the root of all evil...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #30 April 19, 2006 Correction Gary Money is not the root of all evil, the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #31 April 19, 2006 nowe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #32 April 19, 2006 no, religion is the source of evilwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #33 April 20, 2006 It just blows my mind that people who buy into that enormous pile of crap in your attachment use the term "free thinker" to describe themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #34 April 20, 2006 Thinking the EXACT same thing, Jay! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #35 April 20, 2006 Can you use anything other than the bible to refute his claims? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #36 April 20, 2006 Quote Can you use anything other than the bible to refute his claims? Why would I need to? Added: By the way, you asked me this exact question probably 1 or 1 1/2 years ago. We went through it in detail and multiple extra-Biblical accounts of his existence were given. Why do you ask again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #37 April 20, 2006 Nightingale, do you believe that Jesus never existed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #38 April 20, 2006 My personal belief has no bearing on whether or not he actually existed. And, I asked you again for evidence outside the bible because I don't recall you citing anything other than the bible. I may be remembering a conversation with someone else, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #39 April 20, 2006 Quote My personal belief has no bearing on whether or not he actually existed. It's useful to know where someone is coming from. I'm not afraid to say for myself. I think that it is disingenuous otherwise. Lawyers are good at that, though. I guess that’s a big reason why I could never be one. Quote And, I asked you again for evidence outside the bible because I don't recall you citing anything other than the bible. I may be remembering a conversation with someone else, though. I did before. So did others. It's well established and belief that he didn't exist is a fringe notion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #40 April 20, 2006 Quote Can you use anything other than the bible to refute his claims? I can. Many "non biblical" writers refer to Jesus. Their works will be found in most college libraries. Men like those in the Jesus seminar are great scholars and very few (if any) would be considered orthodox Christians (belief in the divinity of Christ) but all of them agree Jesus lived, was a rabi and was crucified. Historians record Nero's persecution of Christains and that he blamed them for Rome's burning. Nero didn't invent Christ or a following so willing to die for their beliefs. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #41 April 20, 2006 Playing devil's avocate here, Nero wasn't born until 15 CE (AD). Just because he killed people that believed in Jesus does not mean by default that Jesus existed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #42 April 20, 2006 Quote Playing devil's avocate here, Nero wasn't born until 15 CE (AD). Just because he killed people that believed in Jesus does not mean by default that Jesus existed. Agreed, however, there are Roman and other non Christian records of Jesus. I'll help you play devil's advocate: Do we have the original records? Nope. In fact we don't have original records of most writings from that time period. What they wrote on simply didn't last. So we have copies made later. Does it require faith to believe Jesus EXISTED? Nah, it takes faith believe he didn't. We don't have any original writings that say Alexander the Great existed. either. Seriously, do you believe you must have writings from that time period to say a historical figure existed? Those who claim Jesus didn't even exist are as reliable and believable as the UFO people. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #43 April 20, 2006 Quote Nightingale, do you believe that Jesus never existed? Which question are you really asking; Do you believe there was a philosopher/political figure named Jesus about 2000 years ago? or Do you believe that a virgin mother gave birth to the son of God, became a philosopher/political figure, was executed and then rose from the dead to accend to heaven? See the difference? I have no doubts whatsoever about the first question. Yes. I believe he existed. The second question . . . that's a lot tougher to answer.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #44 April 20, 2006 Quote Quote Nightingale, do you believe that Jesus never existed? Which question are you really asking; Do you believe there was a philosopher/political figure named Jesus about 2000 years ago? or Do you believe that a virgin mother gave birth to the son of God, became a philosopher/political figure, was executed and then rose from the dead to accend to heaven? See the difference? I have no doubts whatsoever about the first question. Yes. I believe he existed. The second question . . . that's a lot tougher to answer. I'm not Jay, but I'm refering to hairyjuan's link that stated Jesus didn't exist at all. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #45 April 20, 2006 Quote I'm not Jay, but I'm refering to hairyjuan's link that stated Jesus didn't exist at all. Ditto. I believe that was the point in question. Easy one... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #46 April 20, 2006 I'd be more curious to see who believes in the devil. Who believes in divine reward and punishment? Who believes in a vengeful god? I believe all religion is selective superstition. I believe we hold ourselves in control through religion, by letting religion be our control. I believe the use of the term "lamb" is not a mistake. Religion is the Judas goat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
