The Political Geography of the USA

[DaVinci 0]

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Nice spin, Kerry also got more votes than any presidential candidate, which means that more people voted *against* Bush than any other president in history

But more voted for him than Kerry. So he won. Neat huh?

[idrankwhat 0]

More voted for him or he got more votes? Normally I'd say that there's no difference, but then I heard the president of the voting machine maker, Diebold, say that he was going to do everything in his power to get Bush re-elected. Call me a conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But I don't think that having a hard copy for a vote is out of the question. You can't buy a pack of gum without getting a receipt, why should a vote be any less verifiable? And before you reply, consider if it were Hillary that had the sworn support of a voting machine maker. That's the difficult thing about fairness, it works both ways.

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Nice spin, Kerry also got more votes than any presidential candidate, which means that more people voted *against* Bush than any other president in history

But more voted for him than Kerry. So he won. Neat huh?

[DaVinci 0]

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More voted for him or he got more votes? Normally I'd say that there's no difference, but then I heard the president of the voting machine maker, Diebold, say that he was going to do everything in his power to get Bush re-elected. Call me a conspiracy theorist? Maybe

I would go with, YES!

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But I don't think that having a hard copy for a vote is out of the question

I agree it would be a good idea.

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And before you reply, consider if it were Hillary that had the sworn support of a voting machine maker. That's the difficult thing about fairness, it works both ways.

And I would be ok with that. It seems you would only be OK with Hillary, not Bush.

[mnealtx 0]

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More voted for him or he got more votes? Normally I'd say that there's no difference, but then I heard the president of the voting machine maker, Diebold, say that he was going to do everything in his power to get Bush re-elected. Call me a conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But I don't think that having a hard copy for a vote is out of the question. You can't buy a pack of gum without getting a receipt, why should a vote be any less verifiable? And before you reply, consider if it were Hillary that had the sworn support of a voting machine maker. That's the difficult thing about fairness, it works both ways.

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Nice spin, Kerry also got more votes than any presidential candidate, which means that more people voted *against* Bush than any other president in history

But more voted for him than Kerry. So he won. Neat huh?

And the Florida State Supreme Court tried everything in their power to get Gore elected. Of course, there was actual *proof* of how the Florida Supremes tried to sidestep the state laws, but....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

I only mention Hillary's name because I know that it works the neocons into a lather. But I will say that I can't stand Bush and it's because of the damage he and his train wreck of an administration has inflicted. I know that if Hillary were Pres then we'd be hearing nothing about her policies but more about the size of her ankles or how much it costs to cut her hair....you know....the important stuff.
Actually, I wish Powell would run. It might give him a chance to undo the damage to his reputation.

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More voted for him or he got more votes? Normally I'd say that there's no difference, but then I heard the president of the voting machine maker, Diebold, say that he was going to do everything in his power to get Bush re-elected. Call me a conspiracy theorist? Maybe

I would go with, YES!

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But I don't think that having a hard copy for a vote is out of the question

I agree it would be a good idea.

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And before you reply, consider if it were Hillary that had the sworn support of a voting machine maker. That's the difficult thing about fairness, it works both ways.

And I would be ok with that. It seems you would only be OK with Hillary, not Bush.

[rehmwa 2]

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I know that if Hillary were Pres then we'd be hearing nothing about her policies but more about the size of her ankles or how much it costs to cut her hair....you know....the important stuff.

That's equivalent to people talking about Bush's little eyes, etc. It happens on both sides and it's petty crap.

I'm sure if Hillary was in that seat we'd hear plenty about her policies. I mean, really, It takes a 'village'? failed health care task as 1st lady? She's not the brightest bulb either.

I'd rather see better choices come out of the primary process. As noted in another thread, when BOTH parties aren't changing and we can't tell the difference we either work to elevate a 3rd party, or start at the grass roots levels within the 2 parties and change the leadership.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,078]

>But more voted for him than Kerry. So he won.

Sorry, we don't do things that way here! Half a million more people voted for Gore than Bush in 2000, but Bush still won. That's because we don't elect presidents by popular vote here.

[Channman 2]

> Kerry also got more votes than any presidential candidate, which means that more people voted *against* Bush than any other president in history.

Just wanted to make a correction. Bush recieved more than 3 million votes over Kerry. Oh, and the total vote count is a non starter because we go by the Electorial College Vote.

You may continue.

[DaVinci 0]

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I only mention Hillary's name because I know that it works the neocons into a lather.

Well, since I am not a Neocon, I didn't get all worked up.

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I know that if Hillary were Pres then we'd be hearing nothing about her policies but more about the size of her ankles or how much it costs to cut her hair....you know....the important stuff

You KNOW that? Do you have a magic 8 ball?

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Actually, I wish Powell would run. It might give him a chance to undo the damage to his reputation.

Powell would be good, as would McCain or Lieberman. I am actually quite interested to see who both sides put forth.

I doubt Hillary will be #1. I could see her on the ticket as a #2 slot.

Powell I don't think would run (shame).

McCain has a good shot I think of getting the Republican nod.

But above all there are tons of other folks that might be better than any of these.

[DaVinci 0]

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>But more voted for him than Kerry. So he won.

Sorry, we don't do things that way here! Half a million more people voted for Gore than Bush in 2000, but Bush still won. That's because we don't elect presidents by popular vote here.

And Bush got more electoral votes, so he won.

He got more popular, so more people wanted him than the other guy. And he got the electoral votes, so his team did a better job of selling him in the important areas.

Claiming that more people voted against him is pretty stupid since even more voted for him.

[billvon 3,078]

>He got more popular, so more people wanted him than the other guy.

Nope. A bit of Googling might be in order here. Gore got more popular votes than Bush did. In other words, more people wanted Gore for president than Bush. However, since we don't go by popular vote here, that doesn't matter.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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And Bush got more electoral votes, so he won.

He got more popular, so more people wanted him than the other guy. And he got the electoral votes, so his team did a better job of selling him in the important areas.

Claiming that more people voted against him is pretty stupid since even more voted for him.

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Nope. A bit of Googling might be in order here. Gore got more popular votes than Bush did. In other words, more people wanted Gore for president than Bush. However, since we don't go by popular vote here, that doesn't matter.

yeah, but I have a bigger dick, so I win.....

[DaVinci 0]

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Nope. A bit of Googling might be in order here. Gore got more popular votes than Bush did

I was talking about Kerry, not Gore. I see how it could get confused, Sorry.

My point was Bush got more votes than Kerry both ways. The discussion started about Bush getting more votes than anyone in history, and how that also how that election had the biggest turnout in history. That only happend in this last election right?

If not I am sorry.

[zmusico 0]

"Political" map of North America

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...get a life!!!

[idrankwhat 0]

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I know that if Hillary were Pres then we'd be hearing nothing about her policies but more about the size of her ankles or how much it costs to cut her hair....you know....the important stuff

You KNOW that? Do you have a magic 8 ball?


No. But I remember the 90's and I occasionally listen to talk radio. They're still feeding their Clinton fetish every chance they get. I wasn't a huge Clinton admin fan (but I certainly prefer him to what we have now) but the thing that pissed me off was that he had to spend his entire term fending off useless investigations and character assassination. Meanwhile, the current admin can do whatever it wants, legal or not, and there's no touching them because they're being protected by the congressional leadership and the justice dept. As for presidential candidates, I can respect McCain, but Leiberman is a problem. His allegience is obviously primarily with Israel, regardless of what they do. He's supposed to be working for us, not them. And I agree that there are tons of others who would serve us better. Now if we could just figure out a way to get them on the ballot and some TV time.

[rehmwa 2]

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he had to spend his entire term fending off useless investigations and character assassination.

Every president ever.

Whether you think it's useless or not depends on if you're drinking the blue or the red cool aid.

I didn't think you drank any coolaid, but after that post, now I'm not so sure....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

In a nutshell, I hate double standards. Clinton was investigated for Whitewater, monicagate, etc. None of which had anything to do with his functioning as a president. Bush on the other hand has lied in order to lead us into an illegal and premeditated war, leaked classified info for political gain, illegally spied (whoops, still spying) on Americans and absolutely nothing comes of it.
But to clarify, I'm not a big fan of politicians as a whole and I consider myself an independent because my views don't fit into tab "A" or slot "B". BUT, I will go on record as saying that Bush is quite possibly the worst president in our history, the current biggest threat to world peace and the financial or physical security of the US. He's a tool of Dick Cheney and the "Project for a New American Century" and he's too stupid to notice because he seems to think that he's ordained by God.
I'd better quit now before I tell you guys how I really feeljavascript: addTag(':)')

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he had to spend his entire term fending off useless investigations and character assassination.

Every president ever.

Whether you think it's useless or not depends on if you're drinking the blue or the red cool aid.

I didn't think you drank any coolaid, but after that post, now I'm not so sure....

[rehmwa 2]

sorry, man - your emotions are coming through

I still like most of your posts, but I'm seeing a lot of cool aid there.

too bad, I thought I'd met another true political cynic

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

Yea, I can't really hide my feelings about this one, but it aint the cool aid talking. I just use the words of those I accuse against them. There's plenty of it out there. Here's a primer if you're interested in where our foreign policy comes from. Make sure you look at the signatories and then cross check them with the names in the administration and their supporting pundits. Start reading the older statements first.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm

And I *am* a political cynic who believes that the only way that we're going to get our country back is to make it illegal for politicians to take any money whatsoever. It's bribery, not free speech.

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sorry, man - your emotions are coming through

I still like most of your posts, but I'm seeing a lot of cool aid there.

too bad, I thought I'd met another true political cynic

[DaVinci 0]

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Bush on the other hand has lied in order to lead us into an illegal and premeditated war, leaked classified info for political gain, illegally spied (whoops, still spying) on Americans and absolutely nothing comes of it

If you have proof he has done illegal things, call your congressman. Its hard to claim the things he did was illegal since the Congress and Senate vote to support it, and the Courts have not ruled otherwise.

[idrankwhat 0]

There is proof. And I have called and written my congressmen. The problem is that this republican leadership won't investigate any of it and they're the one's who decide what comes to the floor. Bush can't be impeached until the other party takes over at least one house of congress.

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Bush on the other hand has lied in order to lead us into an illegal and premeditated war, leaked classified info for political gain, illegally spied (whoops, still spying) on Americans and absolutely nothing comes of it

If you have proof he has done illegal things, call your congressman. Its hard to claim the things he did was illegal since the Congress and Senate vote to support it, and the Courts have not ruled otherwise.

[DaVinci 0]

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There is proof. And I have called and written my congressmen

So you claim that the Congress is aiding a criminal? Why has the Courts not done something? Are they in on it also?

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The problem is that this republican leadership won't investigate any of it and they're the one's who decide what comes to the floor. Bush can't be impeached until the other party takes over at least one house of congress.

This is the coolaid the other guy was talking about.

[billvon 3,078]

>If you have proof he has done illegal things, call your congressman.

That's been done. Several congressmen are calling for him to stop his illegal wiretap program, for example.

> Its hard to claim the things he did was illegal since the Congress
> and Senate vote to support it, and the Courts have not ruled
>otherwise.

He admits that he's doing it. There's no question that he's doing something that is _normally_ illegal - his claim is that, as president, he can violate laws in the interests of national security, thus allowing him to break the law at his discretion.

[idrankwhat 0]

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There is proof. And I have called and written my congressmen

So you claim that the Congress is aiding a criminal? Why has the Courts not done something? Are they in on it also?



How can a court make a ruling if no one brings them a case?

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[idrankwhat 0]

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>If you have proof he has done illegal things, call your congressman.

That's been done. Several congressmen are calling for him to stop his illegal wiretap program, for example.

John Dean said it best when he stated that this is the first time in history that a president has admitted to an impeachable offense. And Dean should know.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10626679/