pop 0 #26 May 3, 2006 Quote> but we know live in a world taht's is a little more advanced thatn > thinking there is virgins in heaven waiting for you if you kill yourself > in the name of God. A great many people believe there is a saint at the gate to heaven waiting to welcome you inside if you believe in the right guy. So the belief is common, even if the details differ. And that's fine. But the "right" guy in this situation is not going to send the saint to wait at the gate if you blew yourself up in the name of the "right" guy as merely an excuse to kill. The point I ma making is that even if the satisfaction of becoming a martyr is the end result of for the psychopaths, then its fine. Let them think whatevr they want to think. But I know better than that.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #27 May 3, 2006 He did help with the crime. He was training and working towards being one of the hijackers. He knew what was going to happen and didn't say anything. If someone knew that your mother was going to be shot in the head and killed by a specific person, you would't hold him responsible if he didn't say anything or do anything to prevent it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #28 May 3, 2006 The crimes to which Moussaoui pleaded guilty are conspiracy: to commit acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries; to commit aircraft piracy; to destroy aircraft; to use weapons of mass destruction; to murder U.S. government employees; and to destroy U.S. government property. Put in layman’s terms, he pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit murder; but, to this day, there’s never been a judicial determination, either by a judge or this jury, as to whether his personal participation in a conspiracy actually resulted in anyone’s deaths on 9/11. I remind you that although he (rather bizarrely) claimed to be part of the 9/11 conspiracy during his sentencing hearing, when he pleaded guilty 13 months ago he vehemently denied being part of the 9/11 conspiracy; back then, he only admitted to plotting post-9/11 attacks (which obviously were foiled before they occurred). I know we all hate this guy’s guts and would like to see him treated more harshly than anyone else in the US penal system. And emotionally, I feel the same way. But here’s the part you don’t want to hear: the US Constitution guarantees people “equal protection of the laws”. Basically, that means (and this is very over-simplified) that if you single someone out for different treatment by the law than most everyone else similarly situated gets, it’s unconstitutional. Based on this, it’s unlikely that the authorities will be allowed to treat him with conditions much harsher than any other convicted murderer in the federal penal system. No better, but also no worse. Probably no worse than Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson. He’ll now rot away for the next few decades, hopefully more or less in obscurity. Suits him perfectly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #29 May 3, 2006 QuoteAnd that's fine. But the "right" guy in this situation is not going to send the saint to wait at the gate if you blew yourself up in the name of the "right" guy as merely an excuse to kill. pretty sure you haven't been at that gate.....I agree with you, but mostly cause I believe there is no gate, no saint and no entry into anything...just worms or wind, depending on your last decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #30 May 3, 2006 > But the "right" guy in this situation is not going to send the saint to > wait at the gate if you blew yourself up in the name of the "right" > guy as merely an excuse to kill. He uses a different guy who does. The point is not whose guy is right; there are plenty of threads for that. The point is that he's a religious nut, and it doesn't matter which 'guy' the nut believes in. What matters is that he commits crimes. The guy he commits them for is irrelevant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #31 May 3, 2006 Quote> But the "right" guy in this situation is not going to send the saint to > wait at the gate if you blew yourself up in the name of the "right" > guy as merely an excuse to kill. He uses a different guy who does. The point is not whose guy is right; there are plenty of threads for that. The point is that he's a religious nut, and it doesn't matter which 'guy' the nut believes in. What matters is that he commits crimes. The guy he commits them for is irrelevant. I couldnt agree with you more. The point I was making is that on of the reason death penalty was not handed down has to be becasue other religious psychopaths, like Moussaoui, would view his death as a win. I personally dont care how they view his death, even if they truly believe he will be rewarded by it. Even if they felt like they won...I would still feel staisfaction in knowing we have one less freak on this planet that we have to feed7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #32 May 3, 2006 >I would still feel staisfaction in knowing we have one less freak >on this planet that we have to feed. Eh, I don't really care either way. If anything I'd rather they just stick him in jail, if only because it's cheaper. Why waste the money? What matters is he'll never get a chance to try anything like this again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian3576 0 #33 May 3, 2006 he's just a religeous nutcase (many of them around ) who jumped on the 9/11 bandwagon for notoriety the death penalty would have just been a knee jerk reaction by people wanting blood (anybodies blood will do) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #34 May 3, 2006 Quote>I would still feel staisfaction in knowing we have one less freak >on this planet that we have to feed. Eh, I don't really care either way. If anything I'd rather they just stick him in jail, if only because it's cheaper. Why waste the money? What matters is he'll never get a chance to try anything like this again. This would be one of the few times I would like to see us take a step backwards and have a public execution. Just had another thought...."Zacarias Moussaoui on reality TV. For only $9.99/month you can tune into Moussaoui's prison cell and see the boredom on his face. Dont forget, at 6 am EST is the feeding" 7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #35 May 3, 2006 I agree i think he role was minimal if any. Hes a wana be terrorist.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #36 May 3, 2006 Quoteno windows or contact with other humans You guys have it all wrong...he just needs to be put into the standard prison population with all the other thugs. No solitary, no white wall shit....I'm glad he didn't get the death penalty....because what's coming to him in from the inmate population is going to be far more rewarding! Wonder how long he'll last...or his ass will last for that matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #37 May 3, 2006 >because what's coming to him . . . . I find it sad that so many people take pleasure in imagining someone else's torment. It's a way of thinking that makes much of the violence in the world possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #38 May 3, 2006 I don't think he deserves special treatment. However, I don't think he deserves to be specially punished either. This was not a case of if he was guilty. He admitted guilt. It was a case of what to do with him. I think keeping him alive was the right call. Now he will not get his whatever number virgins. But to wish him torment is not good either. Yes, he is a bad man, and he has been judged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #39 May 3, 2006 It's not exactly that I wish him any specific torment, it's just that we all know things will probably happen to him and I honestly won't give a shit when they do...that doesn't make me a bad person or someone who perpetuates violence like bill said, I just simply won't feel bad for him because in a way he has certainly earned it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #40 May 3, 2006 > I just simply won't feel bad for him because in a way he has certainly earned it. Actually, you said that it would be rewarding to have that happen. I understand how hatred works, but I think it's one of the causes of a lot of the nastiness we see throughout the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #41 May 3, 2006 In the Case of US V Moussaoui No Virgins for you!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #42 May 3, 2006 Well I don't quite understand how you think this guy deserves a nice little life in solitary confinement...that would be too nice. Why does he deserve that? And yes, having what truely should happen to him instead of some bullshit lethal injection is rewarding/deserving. Plus, it's not like it matters what you or I think, he's gonna get shanked one way or another by a guard, inmate, etc. It's gonna happen no matter what people think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian3576 0 #43 May 4, 2006 who's to say that he really did know about 9/11 ? the only people who know if he was invloved are the ones who died on that terrible day. he could have lied about knowing the details of 9/11 so he would get notoriety and infamy he could just be some sad, crazy nutcase who wants to be seen as more than he really is, nobody knows for sure... can you believe a word he says? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #44 May 4, 2006 Quotewho's to say that he really did know about 9/11 ? the only people who know if he was invloved are the ones who died on that terrible day. he could have lied about knowing the details of 9/11 so he would get notoriety and infamy he could just be some sad, crazy nutcase who wants to be seen as more than he really is, nobody knows for sure... can you believe a word he says? He was arrested while taking pilots lessons prior to Sept. 11th, he was involved. That said, I'm glad he got life (and I'm one of them zany death penalty supporters). This guy needs to rot in the joint for the rest of his life, however long that might be Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #45 May 4, 2006 Quotewho's to say that he really did know about 9/11 ? the only people who know if he was invloved are the ones who died on that terrible day. he could have lied about knowing the details of 9/11 so he would get notoriety and infamy he could just be some sad, crazy nutcase who wants to be seen as more than he really is, nobody knows for sure... can you believe a word he says? He admitted guilt. That makes him either guilty, trying to be a martyr, or stupid as hell. Either way he admitted to it. So I don't care if he did anything or not. If he had claimed to have been not guilty I could understand support for him. But he said he did it. Who are we to not believe him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skysquiffy 0 #46 May 4, 2006 QuoteIn the Case of US V Moussaoui No Virgins for you!!!!!! Hear, hear. I hope they leave him alone in prison. Pay him no mind whatsoever. He's a little, little, man and experiencing that will be the worst punishment for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #47 May 4, 2006 QuoteWell I don't quite understand how you think this guy deserves a nice little life in solitary confinement... Nice? No way -- there can't be much worse torment than spending life that way. I can't even imagine it. Given a choice, I'd take execution over solitary life imprisonment every time, no questions asked. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #48 May 4, 2006 > Well I don't quite understand how you think this guy deserves a nice >little life in solitary confinement...that would be too nice. Why does he >deserve that? He's a criminal we captured. We've decided (using the justice system we all support) to put him in jail for life. So we put him in jail for life. Pretty simple, really. He's in jail because WE decided to put him there, not because he deserves anything. > And yes, having what truely should happen to him instead of some >bullshit lethal injection is rewarding/deserving. Like I said, the more I hear attitudes like that, the more likely I think a future of 9/11's, preemtive invasions and terrorism is. The more people you decide should be tortured to death because it would be "rewarding," the more likely you (or your friends, or family) are to get put on a similar list. Somebody has to break the cycle - and if we are relying on terrorists to do it, we are in sad shape indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #49 May 4, 2006 It's clear now that this man is just a wannabe terrorist and not a real one so a death penalty would have been totally inappropriate. The jurry made the only decision that it could with the evidence presented. This an was a mere bit player. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #50 May 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou know I have not followed this trial at all. He was not on the plans any one know what the evidence is? Or is he just an escape goat? How was he responsible for the deaths? I have no opnion eithere way as i have not followed this at all. In United States you are considered and accomplice if you know about a crime. You don’t actually have to commit a crime to get into trouble. Moussaoui knew about the thousands of people who were going to die, and did nothing to stop it. He said himself he was part of the team that was supposed to hijack planes. His intentions were the deaths of INNOCENT Americans. There were no governemtn or miliraty personnel in the two towers. The extremest bastards decided to kill innocent people instead of attaking military targets. but but...the conspiracy theorists say there was a CIA operations center there and they were rigging elections and changing the weather and manipulating the price of gas and writing all the memo's for Fox news Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
