Why dont we all believe????

[freethefly 6]

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Not every god is God.

Eastern Intrigue, T. Rundgren

As the sun rises in the east
As the wind blows the fog across the sea
As the hand of man creeps across the face of the world
Caught in a web of glamours
Persian perfume and oriental eyes
Yogi in knots and sufi wise
Master sublime and swami high
Throw in some voodoo on the side
And a dash of the old kung fu

Lord you got me strung out on eastern intrigue
Chapter six and verse eleven
If you wanna get to heaven
You've got to ask the man who owns the property
Ya gotta dance your dance
And do your act
And get his big attention that's a natural born fact
I'm on my knees, one question please
Will the real God please stand up?

Jesus and moses, mohammed, and sri krishna
Steiner, gurdjief, blavatsky, and bhudda
Guru maharaji, reverend sun myung moon

On the banks of the holy nile
As the palm tree sways at the base of the sphinx
'neath a crescent desert moon many thousands
Younger than ours
In fact, forget about time completely
Think of it in the abstract please
Think of the swaying tropic trees
One of your many destinies
Like having a hot peyote tea
In the palace of fu manchu

Lord you got me strung out on eastern intrigue
Sell your wife and pawn your heater
Buy the new bhagavad gita
Do the pranayama 'til your spine gets sore
I'll tell you for free
'cause God told me
We checked it with the pope and so we all agree
I'm on my knees, one question please
Will the real God please sit down?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Zenister 0]

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I send my children to a Christian school because they are taught to not judge, not lash out, not direct anger at others. They are taught to give to charity, donate their time to help others, the concept of giving and sharing. These are basic Christian principles. And are taught as the basics at this school. And re-enforced in our home.

Hmm, too bad that these same ideas can't be taught without the use of a myth. To me, they seem pretty simple, fundamental to society 'working'. I don't need to believe some BS story to think that these are good things to do; and I honestly can't understand why anyone else would need to either.

oh no.. Myth is both the first and best teaching tool. As these kinds of discussions make obvious, Myth ingraines behavior and belief so deeply people are willing to live, die and kill based only on the depth and strength of their personal belief in those myths.

at the same time the Story is the vehicle by which Myth is spread.

after that its all about who tells the best Story to the widest audience of willing listeners...the Stories that survive adapt and grow best are passed on to become the next generations Myths.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[pajarito 0]

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show one example where another's religion DID NOT support and comfort them just as well as yours does you when they put their full belief into it....

It’s not about what makes you feel good or gives you comfort despite what modern evangelism is trying to push these days. Even a Hindu with strong belief in his religion can get a “buzz” out of chanting a word over and over again. It’s about the fallen human condition, the completely justified punishment to come because of it, and God’s provision for the salvation of those who repent and trust in the Savior. It’s about where you’re going to wind up when you die.

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Xtains often using "dying for their belief" as 'evidence' of their God's "Truth" but the FACTs are heathens have and continue to die JUST AS WELL (if not better) for their beliefs...

The Apostles saw the events described in the New Testament themselves. They died martyrs deaths because of what they saw and would not cease to proclaim. It is not logical to think that anyone would die for what they knew was not true. They would not endure torturous deaths just to propagate a religion after witnessing what they did. If Jesus didn’t actually rise from the dead, Peter would not have requested to be crucified upside down because he thought himself not worthy to die in the same manner as his Lord. The Muslim terrorists we see blowing themselves up in the Middle East fanatically believe in what they are doing. However, the circumstances behind their deaths are in no way the same as those of the Apostles. There is no comparison.

[Zenister 0]

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The Apostles saw the events described in the New Testament themselves. They died martyrs deaths ....

blah blah blah..

no YOU believe they did, because your literature says so and believe your entire existence is tied up into going to 'heaven' your eternal reward for 'good behavior'..

basic carrot/stick. nothing new....

however it doesnt make it any more true than claims of any other text by any other author or any other Religion

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[br0k3n 0]

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The Apostles saw the events described in the New Testament themselves. They died martyrs deaths ....

blah blah blah..

no YOU believe they did, because your literature says so and believe your entire existence is tied up into going to 'heaven' your eternal reward for 'good behavior'..

basic carrot/stick. nothing new....

however it doesnt make it any more true than claims of any other text by any other author or any other Religion

we have a winner

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[br0k3n 0]

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is this, or is this not your god....

"Hello, my name is Jesus. I love you deeply. I have loved you since you were conceived in the womb and I will love you for all eternity. I died for you on the cross because I love you so much. I long to have a loving personal relationship with you. I will answer all of your prayers through my love. But if you do not get down on your knees and worship me, and if you do not EAT MY BODY and DRINK MY BLOOD, then I WILL INCINERATE YOU WITH UNIMAGINABLY TORTUOUS PAIN IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!"

No, this isn't the God I worship.

Which god is it then????

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Mockingbird 0]

If you won't accept what God has to say about His uniqueness and His personhood, why would you accept what I have to say?

Sorry not to cooperate; I don't play the "Prove it" word-game any more. I can't prove to you that God exists any more than you can prove to me that He doesn't.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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If that's true, then no god is God - because everyone's image of him differs slightly, even within a given religion.

This is just more post-modern relativism.

John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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To me, they seem pretty simple, fundamental to society 'working'. I don't need to believe some BS story to think that these are good things to do; and I honestly can't understand why anyone else would need to either.

Here's some evidence for the existence of God; it's called Conscience... the law of God written on our hearts. Some ignore it, and it becomes seared.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

OK, br0k3n, you got what you wanted... the answer to your initial question, "Why don't we all believe?" It doesn't appear that you want to have a grown-up discussion, and I don't have time to banter. Sorry.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[br0k3n 0]

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OK, br0k3n, you got what you wanted... the answer to your initial question, "Why don't we all believe?" It doesn't appear that you want to have a grown-up discussion, and I don't have time to banter. Sorry.

I just asked a simple question? whats the problem??? Ok heres a different question, "why wont god heal amputees"????

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Faber 0]

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If you won't accept what God has to say about His uniqueness and His personhood, why would you accept what I have to say?

for startes i can read what your writing i never saw GOD post in here,actualy i never saw GOD,Jesus his desibles,Allah Buddah or who ever people want to belive in..

To me beliving in a god would be the same as beliving in Harry Potter,its a good storry,but hey i dont belive all of it

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[billvon 2,990]

>This is just more post-modern relativism.

I think it's a discrepancy you don't want to consider.

Each sect of christianity has a slightly different vision of who Christ was, what the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is, and who Mary was and her role in the Church. Wars have been fought over these details, so they are clearly significant. Now, either they are all wrong except one, or they all believe BASICALLY the same thing, and the details don't matter as much.

What matters in the end is what you DO, that it is representative of the example set by Christ.

James 2:14-17 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Says it pretty clearly. A faith in _any_ God is dead without the actions that prove that faith.

[Shotgun 1]

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To me, they seem pretty simple, fundamental to society 'working'. I don't need to believe some BS story to think that these are good things to do; and I honestly can't understand why anyone else would need to either.

Here's some evidence for the existence of God; it's called Conscience... the law of God written on our hearts. Some ignore it, and it becomes seared.

I have a conscience, and yet I don't believe in God. I do not think that it requires belief in the supernatural to make one want to treat others well.

[Mockingbird 0]

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>>This is just more post-modern relativism.

I think it's a discrepancy you don't want to consider.

Each sect of christianity has a slightly different vision of who Christ was, what the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is, and who Mary was and her role in the Church. Wars have been fought over these details, so they are clearly significant. Now, either they are all wrong except one, or they all believe BASICALLY the same thing, and the details don't matter as much.

...James 2:14-17 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Says it pretty clearly. A faith in _any_ God is dead without the actions that prove that faith.

Your view of "dead faith" versus genuine faith is right on. No problem there. But what I would add to your comment on James 2:17 is that faith in any god except the true God is dead, with or without actions to back up that faith.

As for the Christian "sects", it's true that there are differing opinions on points of doctrine, most of which are non-essential, having nothing to do with the central teachings of Christ, which were: who He was, why He came, and man's responsibility, for example. Christ rarely made mention of His mother; the apostles (in their writings) never mentioned her except in passing (if at all), so I would hardly consider one's view on Mary "essential Christian doctrine." The relationship between the Father and Jesus is definitely essential, as He continuously brought it up.

Whether wars were fought over certain teachings isn't all that significant, IMO! Mankind can find reasons to fight in practically anything.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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I have a conscience, and yet I don't believe in God. I do not think that it requires belief in the supernatural to make one want to treat others well.

You're right, and I'm GLAD that that's true. Otherwise, the world would be hell!

Conscience is from God. Unless it's seared, it does its job pretty well.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[br0k3n 0]

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Conscience is from God. Unless it's seared, it does its job pretty well.

In your opinion, yet as always you have no proof to back up your opinion.

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Mockingbird 0]

Opinions don't need proof; that's what makes them "opinions."

What, primarily, do you disagree with concerning conscience?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Michele 1]

Broken, I'm not clear.

Just what in particular do you have against religion and those who are more spiritually inclined than you are?

I'm simply curious. Can you elaborate, give examples, facts?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SpeedRacer 1]

OK, how many of you believe that I had a HYUUUUGE DUMP monday morning?? does the dump have to have a driver's license or something for you to believe in it? Or is my testimony enough?

BTW, I like, read half of the intro-translation of Sun-Tsu's The Art of War during said dump.

Is that not good enough???

wait, am I in Speakers Corner or what?

Speed Racer
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[Zenister 0]

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To me, they seem pretty simple, fundamental to society 'working'. I don't need to believe some BS story to think that these are good things to do; and I honestly can't understand why anyone else would need to either.

Here's some evidence for the existence of God; it's called Conscience... the law of God written on our hearts. Some ignore it, and it becomes seared.

lol.. more threats from the religion of the 'loving' god..

sorry but recognition of Divinity does NOT require you chose any of mans other names for it.....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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As for the Christian "sects", it's true that there are differing opinions on points of doctrine, most of which are non-essential, having nothing to do with the central teachings of Christ, which were: who He was, why He came, and man's responsibility, for example. Christ rarely made mention of His mother; the apostles (in their writings) never mentioned her except in passing (if at all), so I would hardly consider one's view on Mary "essential Christian doctrine." The relationship between the Father and Jesus is definitely essential, as He continuously brought it up.
.

oh look a red letter believer... havent seen one of those in a while...

see what you fail to grasp is that "Christ" did not mention anything.. any more than Hamlet mentioned anything...

your limited understanding of the "Central Message" of the character of Christ was written, edited and translated BY MAN. There is no questioning this fundamental fact.

what you learn from the story of Christ is entirely up to you, but there are many equal valid, equal useful stories to learn from as well.

God is more than the single cultural Mythos you've devoted your life too and there is a great deal you could learn about Humanity and Yourself by expanding your awareness of Divinity everywhere in every cultural manifestation..

some children never outgrow their security blankets, and some who are injured never learn to walk without their crutches again.... not because they cannot, but because they've never learned to trust in the abilities inately granted them by God, and lean instead forever on the Religion(s) of Man.....

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jakee 1,489]

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What, primarily, do you disagree with concerning conscience?

That it is given by god.
That everyone carries the same uniform blueprint of conscience.
That it is born, not learned.
That everyone has one.

Can you honestly tell me that everyone, from every culture, is born with the same ideas about what is and is not acceptable treatment of other people?

To take an extreme example, what about sociopaths? People clinically unable to tell that hurting others is wrong - what happened when god was making them?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,990]

>As for the Christian "sects", it's true that there are differing opinions on
>points of doctrine, most of which are non-essential, having nothing to do
> with the central teachings of Christ . . .

I agree! I think we both agree that the details of a particular sect are not as important as what they teach, and how they follow the example of Christ. I just think that more things in religion are details than you do.

>Christ rarely made mention of His mother; the apostles (in their writings)
>never mentioned her except in passing (if at all), so I would hardly
>consider one's view on Mary "essential Christian doctrine."

Well, see - I got most of my formal religious education from Marianists, and they would dispute your statement very strongly. According to them, she is one of the central figures in christianity.

But again, what's important is what they _do_, not the details of what they believe. And as a sect dedicated to teaching (at least in the US) they're doing a good job of promulgating the message of Christ. And just as you think that Mary's role is not "essential," I think _most_ of the details of any religion are nonessential. It's what they do that counts, no matter what they call themselves or who they follow.

(I know we disagree on this; just trying to point out why I think that.)

>Whether wars were fought over certain teachings isn't all that significant,
> IMO! Mankind can find reasons to fight in practically anything.

Very true! But it does mean that it is important enough to some people that they will die for it.

[stevebabin 0]

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Very true! But it does mean that it is important enough to some people that they will die for it.

Or kill for it...

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."