Mockingbird 0 #176 May 23, 2006 Congratulations on twisting my words to suit your humor. Not very intellectually honest, but then most aren't. Isn't it a great feeling to be generalized? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #177 May 23, 2006 Quote Congratulations on twisting my words to suit your humor. Not very intellectually honest, but then most aren't. Isn't it a great feeling to be generalized? So you weren't advocating looking in the bible to find gods word? Straight after you said nothing can be found in man made religions?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #178 May 23, 2006 Jack, your contempt is showing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #179 May 23, 2006 God's "word" can indeed be found in the bible. And yes, I'll repeat that nothing can be learned about God by looking at man-made religions. If you want to dismiss the bible as merely man's words, feel free. From that viewpoint, the two statements ARE ironic. But if you want to have a grown-up conversation, you will debate the issue rather than laugh it off. Again, possibly a moot point. We have no place to begin a discussion if there's no point of agreement from which we diverge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #180 May 23, 2006 QuoteIf you want to dismiss the bible as merely man's words, feel free. From that viewpoint, the two statements ARE ironic. But if you want to have a grown-up conversation, Aah, so unless I accept the bible as gods word I can't be a grown up. Thank you for clearing that up.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #181 May 23, 2006 QuoteAah, so unless I accept the bible as gods word I can't be a grown up. Thank you for clearing that up. Is that what I said, jakee? Do you read or merely scan and then jump to conclusions?Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #182 May 23, 2006 Yes, I read. You ask if I want to have a grown up debate or laugh at irony. You then say the only way we can debate is to have a point of agreement to start from. Back up a little and we see that this point of agreement is that the bible is gods word. I don't agree with this. Therefore it is apparently impossible for me to have a grown up conversation with you - and the inference is that it's my fault. So I guess I'll just giggle at the irony some more (it actually is quite funny).Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #183 May 24, 2006 QuoteNow we need hairyjuan to post some link to some NewAge BS & then we will all be enlightened. or perhaps another meaningless comment from you?? cant participate? awww poor speed, trapped in the mediocrity of his chosen religion, and inability to discuss the subject intelligently, he choses to throws poo from the trees instead....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #184 May 24, 2006 QuoteCool, then you owe me a jump ticket. But I'll take cash. So Paul's "sermon" was politically motivated, huh? What does "divinity" have to do with politics? very good question.. why dont you start asking Christian "leaders" that? Religion, however has a great deal to do with politics, and power.. and "Paul" recognized this as he went about creating his religion.... i'm glad you dont think(not really, if more people thought we'd have less Religion, but i'm glad you dont assume about me as you dont have the experince to begin to make such judgements)... as you'd be very wrong.. i've discovered more about Man, Myself, Religion and Divinity by my study of Man's "experience and interaction" with Divinity than i ever did in any Christian based Education Indoctrination System "Go to the Source"? you mean YOUR source? aka the Bible?.. lol you havent been reading this discussion very throughly have you?.. the Bible is hardly the "Source" any more than any other Religious text is "The Source". It IS a source of insight and wisdom but only the insight and wisdom of Christianity's... not that of God... generally the more discomforting or threaten something is, the more interesting i find it, as facing those feelings directly is a prime method of self discovery. I find neither of those in your Religion, having "been, there, done that" and recognized at a very early age (to early to be able to extricate myself unfortuntely) that there is far more than your chosen Religion knows or claims to know… perhaps when you've discovered the real basis for Mythos that Christianity is founded on you'll understand better... but you have to BREAK YOUR VASE.... and look outside the fields you know to learn anything new... btw.. God wont "see to" anything... but she might smile if/when you learn, look for yourself, use the abilities given you instead of following the herd (an amazingly apt metaphor for the Christian faith.. its surprising so many repeat it so often and fail to recognize the irony.) and in doing so become more than you were before you started..... and the bet was a jump ticket, aka a jump. aka an actual experience.... i'll be happy to credit your account at your dropzone if you like (PM me info if you want, i do pay my bets) or you can claim it in Eloy whenever, or from me if you wander into me (i'll be wandering about some soon so it may happen) as i have no interest in lining your (or anyone else's) pockets, but I am interested in helping anyone expand their experience, and by proxy, my own....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #185 May 24, 2006 QuoteCongratulations on twisting my words to suit your humor. Not very intellectually honest, but then most aren't. Isn't it a great feeling to be generalized? I'm sorry you took it that way Mockingbird, truly I am but you walked into that one with your eyes wide open. You first say "we can't learn anything from mans religion" and then essentailly say "except for christianity". Death by irony, it's excruciating. I suggest you be a bit more critical in your writing if you want to avoid such obvious rebuttals in future. I'm not going to treat your beliefs with special respect and if you leave yourself open to such comments you must expect to recieve them. I would expect you to treat my words in the same way, it's called debating. But I appologise for any offence caused. I have no contempt for you, I enjoy these conversations and I do understand your position but I just find the whole concept of god completely perplexing. I hope you will be able to avoid giving people the oportunity for similar comments in future. QuoteAnd yes, I'll repeat that nothing can be learned about God by looking at man-made religions. If you want to dismiss the bible as merely man's words, feel free. From that viewpoint, the two statements ARE ironic. But if you want to have a grown-up conversation, you will debate the issue rather than laugh it off. That's the point, the bible is written by man, which is exactly why your comments were ironic. I'm glad you recognise that. This is the issue we were debating but your comment was so funny, I just had to point it out. QuoteAgain, possibly a moot point. We have no place to begin a discussion if there's no point of agreement from which we diverge. You are missing the point I think, you want us to start the debate from the position "god exists" and probably even that "the bible is the word of god". I agree with neither of these statements. I'm willing to consider that I might be wrong and if you have any real evidence I'll reconsider my opinion. But if you're not even willing to entertain the idea that god may not exist, then perhaps you should review your statement about the openness of br0k3n's mind? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #186 May 24, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo Paul's "sermon" was politically motivated, huh? What does "divinity" have to do with politics? very good question.. why dont you start asking Christian "leaders" that? Religion, however has a great deal to do with politics, and power.. and "Paul" recognized this as he went about creating his religion.... Religion, yes. Zen, I hate to say it, but I can't totally disagree with you on this one. But your comment on Paul is pretty outlandish. Granted, in the context of today's culture, some of his statements concerning human relationships would sound as outlandish as I found yours just now! But his doctrinal teachings on the person of Christ and soteriology, and even sanctification, are simply enlargements on Christ's own teachings. Paul didn't "create" a religion... I disagree with your choice of both words, "create" and "religion." I think that Christianity is a way of life, a new life, a life given to Christ, a very personal thing between an individual and Christ-- NOT a religious system. NO NO NO!!! Not that man hasn't tried, and in many cases succeeded, at turning it into a religious system, and a political one at that. But that is a distortion of the simplicity which Christ taught. He said, simply, "I came from God to reconcile man to his Creator, by my own death, to bring each one back to God as that one puts his faith in Me and his life in my hands." Do you see how personal and how simple His message was? Religions (those ghastly men you like to observe/study) only COMPLICATE the message to the point that it is unrecognizable. Quotei'm glad you dont think(not really, if more people thought we'd have less Religion, but i'm glad you dont assume about me as you dont have the experince to begin to make such judgements)... as you'd be very wrong.. i've discovered more about Man, Myself, Religion and Divinity by my study of Man's "experience and interaction" with Divinity than i ever did in any Christian based Education Indoctrination System I wish you'd focus more on discovering God and studying the life of Jesus-- Zen, I just don't see how studying man's interaction with divinity will bring you any closer to truth. I sorta' know, just to a degree, where you're coming from. I'll bet you've been quite disallusioned in the past in your "christian" learning. My experiences haven't been all peaches and creme either. Quote"Go to the Source"? you mean YOUR source? aka the Bible?.. lol you havent been reading this discussion very throughly have you?.. the Bible is hardly the "Source" any more than any other Religious text is "The Source". It IS a source of insight and wisdom but only the insight and wisdom of Christianity's... not that of God... I don't believe you couldn't be wrongER about the origin of insight and wisdom contained in those pages. Quote and recognized at a very early age (to early to be able to extricate myself unfortuntely) that there is far more than your chosen Religion knows or claims to know… Give me a hint as to what more there is to discover about God outside of Christ and outside of what I learn of Him through experience and scripture. Quotebtw.. God wont "see to" anything... How do you know this? Is this what He has told you? Obviously, I disagree and believe that God is in the details and DOES lead us along into an understanding which the god of this world has blinded us to so that we can't see until God intervenes and gives us light and understanding. Quotebut she might smile if/when you learn, look for yourself, use the abilities given you instead of following the herd (an amazingly apt metaphor for the Christian faith.. its surprising so many repeat it so often and fail to recognize the irony.) and in doing so become more than you were before you started..... I'm a nonconformist at heart, (which is why I would make a very poor catholic)... I removed myself from the herd mentality long, long ago, and as I mentioned above, my relationship with Christ is personal... definitely not cookie-cutter. Quoteand the bet was a jump ticket, aka a jump. aka an actual experience.... i'll be happy to credit your account at your dropzone if you like (PM me info if you want, i do pay my bets) or you can claim it in Eloy whenever, or from me if you wander into me (i'll be wandering about some soon so it may happen) as i have no interest in lining your (or anyone else's) pockets, but I am interested in helping anyone expand their experience, and by proxy, my own.... Be sure to make plans for some dz hopping in Texas, OK? I promise not to argue about religion... or real Christianity. We could just jump from an airplane together. (Boy, that would've sounded funny to me a couple of years ago!)Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #187 May 24, 2006 QuoteAnd yes, I'll repeat that nothing can be learned about God by looking at man-made religions. OK, missed a bunch of this, but is someone advocating that their is a religion practiced by humans that was not invented by humans? Name the religion(s) not invented by humans." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #188 May 24, 2006 Uuuuummmmmmmm, yes. And to think otherwise is natural.. just incorrect. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #189 May 26, 2006 QuoteUuuuummmmmmmm, yes. And to think otherwise is natural.. just incorrect. Disbelief in unobservable, unphysical entities who are indistinguishable from their non-existence is both natural and correct. cf. fairies, leprichauns, goblins, medusas, dragons, mermaids, phoenix, warewolves, vampires etc. etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #190 May 26, 2006 Quotemedusas There's only one Medusa, she was an immortal Gorgon.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #192 May 26, 2006 So is this a bad time to say that you spelled werewolf wrong as well? Work avoidance, gotta love itDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #193 May 26, 2006 I really late in this thread but here is my answer to your question. Lots of people believing doesn't make it true. I don't believe because it doesn't make any sense to me and I don't seem to have that need to believe no matter what. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #194 May 26, 2006 QuoteLots of people believing doesn't make it true. True QuoteI don't believe because it doesn't make any sense to me and I don't seem to have that need to believe no matter what. It doesn't make any sense to someone who's not examined themselves against God's moral law (see link below). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #195 May 26, 2006 To me it seems silly to attribute any thing to imaginary beings. To say that the Bible was written by men inspired by God doesn't make much sense to me. I see God as a concept that was created by peoples need to explain the unexplainable. I personally don't need to have everything explained. If I don't know I don't know. Why attribute everything to this imaginary God? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #196 May 27, 2006 First off, it's ironic that your icon is a statue of Jesus. Are you telling me that there is nothing in this world that you accept by faith? Do you personally pack every chute that you jump with, or did you watch when the rigger last packed your reserve? As for no evidence that any of it is true, what year did you write down on your last check when you paid the bills. It wasn't 6006, was it? How could a simple, humble, lowly carpenter- fisherman affect the whole of time if there wasn't something different about him. The muslims have to force their faith upon the masses at the pont of a sword, even today. They have no message of love. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #197 May 27, 2006 QuoteTo me it seems silly to attribute any thing to imaginary beings. I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #198 May 27, 2006 I just replied to you, and then saw where you had gotten into religious discussions on other threads. Methinks thou dost protest too much! Is there something way down deep inside that is eating at you. Examine all of the evidence with a truly open mind whether or not a man named Jesus Christ ever walked this earth. If you say no, then you can't believe that there was ever a writer named Socrates,or Plato. What about Gengis Khan, or Hannibal. or Alexander the Great. Now, those all sound like made up cartoon characters to me, yet, I beleive they existed, and the stories of them are fairly accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #199 May 27, 2006 Yes, and this is one reason why Christ put on human flesh and came down here. To show us God-- He said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father." Neither He nor His Father are imaginary, mythical beings such as those you listed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #200 May 27, 2006 Royd, thank you for seeing the difference and supporting the idea which the Christians here have been trying to get across-- that our faith is built on evidence--- not PROOF perhaps--- but evidence which we have not closed our eyes to/ignored nor denied, but by God's grace have responded to with faith. These threads are overlapping a lot. It's getting difficult to keep track of what was said by whom in which thread! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
