NSA and YOUR phone calls

[quade 4]

Wow. Lemme see, who was in charge of this and what have they said about it so far?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/11/nsa.phonerecords.ap/index.html

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[narcimund 0]

This is terrible! This means 200 million americans are members of al qaeda.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[wmw999 2,453]

They didn't actually eavesdrop. And if you run up to someone and stop your fist an inch from their face it's not punching.

But it's chickenshit.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[warpedskydiver 0]

For anyone to think that ANY type of communications have not been monitored for the last 30 years is simply ridiculous.

Want to make a bet that even encryption software that purports to be uncrackable is easily ready by the NSA and others?

Has anyone here not heard of Echelon and Carnivore?

geez even at a lower level there is CALEA

these things have been out in the open for quite a while, but yet have been ignored unless they can be attributed to the EVIL BUSH administration in the media.

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

For anyone to think that ANY type of communications have not been monitored for the last 30 years is simply ridiculous.

Has anyone here not heard of Echelon and Carnivore?

So, you have Top Secret/SCI clearance and know the details of these programs? Do tell...

The difference is, domestic calls were not included in the searches. Now we have telecom working in collusion with the government to violate the constitution. This is called TOTALITARIANISM and is wrong.

Ammendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

These are Soviet and Red Chinese tactics of government and have no place in the land of the free. We are all losing our rights and freedoms. If this continues without abating, a revolution is coming.

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[narcimund 0]

Quote

If this continues without abating, a revolution is coming.

You're optimistic.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[quade 4]

Quote

For anyone to think that ANY type of communications have not been monitored for the last 30 years is simply ridiculous.

Want to make a bet that even encryption software that purports to be uncrackable is easily ready by the NSA and others?

There is a difference. It's subtle and people really need to understand the differences before simply dismissing this as "oh well it's been going on all along and no cypher is unbreakable".

The two programs you mentioned scan ephemeral data and because of the huge quantity of it can not ever really hope to store more than a small fraction.

This new program actually attempts to log the number from and the number to every phone call made.

While I applaude them on the technical side of doing this (it's a huge accomplishment) it's also one of the more frightening things I can possibly imagine.

Any significantly large database is something that can be used against society.

Using this program and the concept of six degrees of separation, my guess would be that a particularly zealous government official could make a connection between just about anybody to anything.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pop 0]

I want to see the president impreached! It's that simple

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Zipp0 1]

November cannot get here quickly enough.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[warpedskydiver 0]

So, you have Top Secret/SCI clearance and know the details of these programs? Do tell...

I have no Idea what you are talking about

I am merely stating what I have read since around 1980

[rushmc 23]

A non story.
1st investigate when/who started this and
2nd This is records of what number to what number. If a known (terrosrist) number is dialed or called up then something is triggered. Other than that this is nothing.

Don't forget to investigate when/who started this with court approval.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

A non story.
1st investigate when/who started this and
2nd This is records of what number to what number. If a known (terrosrist) number is dialed or called up then something is triggered. Other than that this is nothing.

Don't forget to investigate when/who started this without court approval.

I think I recall his name was Jimmy

[rushmc 23]

Whne your life is anger, panic and conspiracy it is stories like this that keep your blood presure up

I will continue to enjoy the "AaaHaaa! I gotcha" show however

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

This is records of what number to what number. If a known (terrosrist) number is dialed or called up then something is triggered. Other than that this is nothing.

Except the article says it's tens of millions of phone calls, so it seems far more extensive than you think:

Quote

AT&T Corp., Verizon Communications Inc., and BellSouth Corp. telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the National Security Agency program shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, said USA Today, citing anonymous sources it said had direct knowledge of the arrangement.

[rushmc 23]

No, it is more likley 100s Millions of calls. That is not the point.........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

No, it is more likley 100s Millions of calls. That is not the point.........

Well, my point is simply that it doesn't seem that it's discrete records of discrete calls. It appears, at least on the face of it, that the NSA is attempting to assemble a database of every single telephone call not just to and from the US, but also within the US, regardless of from whom or to whom.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

No, it is more likley 100s Millions of calls. That is not the point.........

Well, my point is simply that it doesn't seem that it's discrete records of discrete calls. It appears, at least on the face of it, that the NSA is attempting to assemble a database of every single telephone call not just to and from the US, but also within the US, regardless of from whom or to whom.

Look, this is a political gotch type story as it not new. They are not listening only collecting number to number records.

Read here http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/11/105237.shtml?s=ic

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

No, it is more likley 100s Millions of calls. That is not the point.........

Well, my point is simply that it doesn't seem that it's discrete records of discrete calls. It appears, at least on the face of it, that the NSA is attempting to assemble a database of every single telephone call not just to and from the US, but also within the US, regardless of from whom or to whom.

records of calls from one number to another does not amount to wiretaps...

now keyword filters etc.

[Zipp0 1]

31% and falling fast.

'Nuff said.

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

31% and falling fast.

'Nuff said.

Zipp0

I would rather be doing around 120 to 170mph and falling fast actually but thanks for the kind thoughts

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

So, you have Top Secret/SCI clearance and know the details of these programs? Do tell...

I have no Idea what you are talking about

And therefore you have no idea what YOU are talking about. Without first hand knowledge, you are just guessing.

That is why we need congressional oversight. That is not happening currently. The congress has NO IDEA what is going on. Without checks and balances this is no longer the USA. It is RED CHINA.

Like it or not - that's the reality of it.

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

So, you have Top Secret/SCI clearance and know the details of these programs? Do tell...

I have no Idea what you are talking about

And therefore you have no idea what YOU are talking about. Without first hand knowledge, you are just guessing.

Zipp0

Oh and YOU do have a TS/SCI?

wow youre my new hero

I guess that is why you know more than me or many others.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Who have YOU been calling so much that your panties are in a wad?

hmmmmmmmm?

you know when you think youre all alone talking to Al Franken while he flys you around in his flying saucer(which requires no fuel) are you actually worried that someone is listening to your plans to overthrow the RNC?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

31% and falling fast.

'Nuff said.

Zipp0

Nope, not nuff said. 40% and rising.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

President Bush Job Approval
RasmussenReports.com

Thursday May 11, 2006--Forty percent (40%) of Americans Approve of the way that George W. Bush is performing his role as President and 58% Disapprove.

The President earns approval from 42% of men and 39% of women. Among Republicans, the President's Job Approval remains at 74%.

Just 30% of Americans give the President Good or Excellent marks for handling the situation in Iraq. That's down from 32% a month ago and 35% two months ago. While the President's numbers have declined, pessimism about the overall War on Terror has eased a bit over the past month.


-

[Andy9o8 2]

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They are not listening only collecting number to number records.

Quote

records of calls from one number to another does not amount to wiretaps...

True, but a lot of Americans still object to their govt basically having a record of every phone call made by or to them. It's a question of how much governmental scrutiny of our private matters we're willing to tolerate in a free, democratic nation - in order to remain a free, democratic nation.