Gravitymaster 0 #26 May 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for flip/flop, most of Congress voted for the war if not all, and 98 of 99 Senators voted for teh Patriot Act, both due to Bush's suppression of intelligence. There's a kicker, Bush supressed intelligence. You proved my point. Kerry would have most likely done the same things if 98 out of 99 senators were for it. Would he have been better? I can honestly say I don't know. BTW - your point that Clinton took a stand is kind of laughable. I liked him a little and I thought apart from so many personal flaws he was an okay president, but he was the king of popular poll politics. Al Gore would have invaded Iraq too. Probably sooner than Bush did. A least that's what Billvon told me. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #27 May 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for flip/flop, most of Congress voted for the war if not all, and 98 of 99 Senators voted for teh Patriot Act, both due to Bush's suppression of intelligence. There's a kicker, Bush supressed intelligence. You proved my point. Kerry would have most likely done the same things if 98 out of 99 senators were for it. Would he have been better? I can honestly say I don't know. BTW - your point that Clinton took a stand is kind of laughable. I liked him a little and I thought apart from so many personal flaws he was an okay president, but he was the king of popular poll politics. No, Kerry would not have gone to war (even tho we were in Iraq during the 2004 election), but he would have withdrawn if elected in 2004. Your boy, McCain has already said he would increase troop numbers, but most/all Republicans would. QuoteWould he have been better? I can honestly say I don't know. Uh, would Kerry have trashed this country as Bush has? Hard to think he would have and although he probably wouldn't straighten it up as Clinton did with his domestic fiscal policies, the burden is on the person asserting that Kerry would trash the US to the proportions that Bush has. QuoteBTW - your point that Clinton took a stand is kind of laughable. I liked him a little and I thought apart from so many personal flaws he was an okay president,... He took a stand to get socialied medicine and lost. He fought the Rep COngress to get his 1993 Omnibus Spending Bill through and eventually won. This is credited for the economic recovery. Clinton also reduced troop numbers to cut gov costs. Clinton did boit waiver....if so, tell me how? Personal flaws? Like being a drunk driver? Like refusing to post your military record? Quote...but he was the king of popular poll politics. Reagan was too, and he fiscally trashed this country - care to debate that? BTW, I can post this data from a recent thread if you care for me to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #28 May 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMe too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so. Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse. - My sentiments. How so? I don't approve of a lot that Bush does/did, but it is my honest belief Kerry would have, could have done worse. Am I right? We'll never know. With the republicans controlling the house and senate, Kerry wouldn't have been able to do much of anything...and nothing would be substantially better than the somethings Bush & Co. have done. Given that the election was picking the lesser of two bad choices, I'd really hoped that whoever won the presidency got their hands tied by congress. Unfortunately it didn't work out that way. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #29 May 12, 2006 Quote Reagan was too, and he fiscally trashed this country - care to debate that?. Nah, going out to the DZ to video tandems and AFFs. We have two weeks of work backed up due to weather. That seems like a better use of my time. But I still stand by MY point. I voted for Bush. I can't stand what he has done in his handling of Iraq, but I'm not convinced Kerry would be any better. If I KNEW Kerry (heck, Hillary for that matter) would take us out of that quagmire, I would have voted for him. But I don't know that. I only know Bush pooched us. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #30 May 12, 2006 QuoteQuote Reagan was too, and he fiscally trashed this country - care to debate that?. Nah, going out to the DZ to video tandems and AFFs. We have two weeks of work backed up due to weather. That seems like a better use of my time. But I still stand by MY point. I voted for Bush. I can't stand what he has done in his handling of Iraq, but I'm not convinced Kerry would be any better. If I KNEW Kerry (heck, Hillary for that matter) would take us out of that quagmire, I would have voted for him. But I don't know that. I only know Bush pooched us. Prolly a better use of time - have fun!!! Just open your mind, I did and switched. If you can't find any data out there to support a given parties moves, acts, etc, then maybe that party isn;t good for the country. I'm waiting for anyone to provide evidence that teh Repubs haven't done a thing but trash the country.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #31 May 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Reagan was too, and he fiscally trashed this country - care to debate that?. Nah, going out to the DZ to video tandems and AFFs. We have two weeks of work backed up due to weather. That seems like a better use of my time. But I still stand by MY point. I voted for Bush. I can't stand what he has done in his handling of Iraq, but I'm not convinced Kerry would be any better. If I KNEW Kerry (heck, Hillary for that matter) would take us out of that quagmire, I would have voted for him. But I don't know that. I only know Bush pooched us. Prolly a better use of time - have fun!!! Just open your mind, I did and switched. If you can't find any data out there to support a given parties moves, acts, etc, then maybe that party isn;t good for the country. I'm waiting for anyone to provide evidence that teh Repubs haven't done a thing but trash the country.... I already posted this in another thread, but since you apparently didn't see it. 1. Real GDP has expanded more than $1 trillion. Thats an 11% increase between the first quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005. 2. 5 million jobs have been created. Thats more than Europe and Japan combined. 3. Personal income has gone up 5.7% 4. Industrial Production is up 11% or $300 billion. 5. Between the 2nd quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005, 3.9 million businesses have been started. 6. The S&P is up 55% and the DJIA is up 42% and small Cap stocks have accounted for the biggest stock market increases. 7. After tax coporate profits are up 46% or almost $1.1 trillion. 8. Dividends have gone from $149 billion in 2003 to over $200 biillion now. S&P companies have had over 900 increases and more than 40 companies have paid dividends. 9. Capital spending has increased from $730 billion to almost $1 trillion, an increase of over 30% Cash flows have grown faster than ever before outstripping even capital expenditures. 10. Household assets are up more than $15 trillion with only an increase of $3 trillion in household liabilities. 11. Overall, National assets have grown 30% in 3 years to $160 trillion. 12. Tax receipts were up 15% last year. Anything else? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #32 May 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteMe too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so. Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse. - How much worse could it be?L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #33 May 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteMe too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so. Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse. - How much worse could it be? I shudder to think about it. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #34 May 12, 2006 And we're still waiting for you to show how the country has been trashed. Nice economy we've got going here, eh? By the way - you keep forgetting to add 'who pay the majority of the taxes' to 'tax cuts for the rich' when you write the phrase. Don't worry, though. We conservative leaning folks add it automatically. Nice to look at all facts to keep them in perspective, you see. If El Jefe Clintonista had succeeded in socializing medicine, the deficit of which you love to speak would be even worse than it is today. Looking forward to your reasoning as to why the country is trashed. Please address the economy in your response. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #35 May 12, 2006 QuoteDo you want a cookie or something? No but a half rack of Henry's would be nice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #36 May 12, 2006 QuoteMe too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so. Seems like when I was sworn in to the Army I took an oath to protect the constitution from enimies foreign and domestic. I'm concerned about all this domestic spying (yeah, I know, it existed prior to GWB but not on this scale) in the guise of "them scary terrorists". I sincerely admired how Bush took the lead in the months after 9/11. He wasted what he had then. I see some very bad parallels between the Iraq fiasco and Vietnam. We got 57,000 wasted there, remember? I'm well aware of the booming economy. Also well aware of the deficit too. As for me, I'm going to "throw away my vote" in the future and vote Libertarian unless the demos and repubs have a candidate that makes sense, they won't... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #37 May 13, 2006 Which so-called domestic spying program is disturbing you? Why anyone would be concerned about NSA obtaining phone records as reported in USA Today's article is utterly beyond me. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 May 13, 2006 I think people are confusing call records with call recordings.... NSA has asked for call records (what number made a call to what number) before, and the telco's have happily provided them. The difference I see with this is that NSA is able to get the records directly instead of via request to the telco. As for call recordings... if you've ever made a call outside of CONUS, I'll lay even odds it was recorded by SOMEone... the record probably wasn't KEPT, since the programs do a wipe unless there's a trigger that causes it to be kept.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #39 May 16, 2006 QuoteI already posted this in another thread, but since you apparently didn't see it. 1. Real GDP has expanded more than $1 trillion. Thats an 11% increase between the first quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005. 2. 5 million jobs have been created. Thats more than Europe and Japan combined. 3. Personal income has gone up 5.7% 4. Industrial Production is up 11% or $300 billion. 5. Between the 2nd quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005, 3.9 million businesses have been started. 6. The S&P is up 55% and the DJIA is up 42% and small Cap stocks have accounted for the biggest stock market increases. 7. After tax coporate profits are up 46% or almost $1.1 trillion. 8. Dividends have gone from $149 billion in 2003 to over $200 biillion now. S&P companies have had over 900 increases and more than 40 companies have paid dividends. 9. Capital spending has increased from $730 billion to almost $1 trillion, an increase of over 30% Cash flows have grown faster than ever before outstripping even capital expenditures. 10. Household assets are up more than $15 trillion with only an increase of $3 trillion in household liabilities. 11. Overall, National assets have grown 30% in 3 years to $160 trillion. 12. Tax receipts were up 15% last year. Anything else? great so where is all that money coming from? My guess is a large share of it is being borrowed.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,038 #40 May 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteI already posted this in another thread, but since you apparently didn't see it. 1. Real GDP has expanded more than $1 trillion. Thats an 11% increase between the first quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005. 2. 5 million jobs have been created. Thats more than Europe and Japan combined. 3. Personal income has gone up 5.7% 4. Industrial Production is up 11% or $300 billion. 5. Between the 2nd quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005, 3.9 million businesses have been started. 6. The S&P is up 55% and the DJIA is up 42% and small Cap stocks have accounted for the biggest stock market increases. 7. After tax coporate profits are up 46% or almost $1.1 trillion. 8. Dividends have gone from $149 billion in 2003 to over $200 biillion now. S&P companies have had over 900 increases and more than 40 companies have paid dividends. 9. Capital spending has increased from $730 billion to almost $1 trillion, an increase of over 30% Cash flows have grown faster than ever before outstripping even capital expenditures. 10. Household assets are up more than $15 trillion with only an increase of $3 trillion in household liabilities. 11. Overall, National assets have grown 30% in 3 years to $160 trillion. 12. Tax receipts were up 15% last year. Anything else? great so where is all that money coming from? My guess is a large share of it is being borrowed.... It's easy to appear wealthy while you are actually up to your ears in debt.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #41 May 17, 2006 QuoteIt's easy to appear wealthy while you are actually up to your ears in debt. Well, it is the American way to just finance everything and claim bankruptcy when you can't make the payments anymore..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #42 May 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI already posted this in another thread, but since you apparently didn't see it. 1. Real GDP has expanded more than $1 trillion. Thats an 11% increase between the first quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005. 2. 5 million jobs have been created. Thats more than Europe and Japan combined. 3. Personal income has gone up 5.7% 4. Industrial Production is up 11% or $300 billion. 5. Between the 2nd quarter of 2003 and the end of 2005, 3.9 million businesses have been started. 6. The S&P is up 55% and the DJIA is up 42% and small Cap stocks have accounted for the biggest stock market increases. 7. After tax coporate profits are up 46% or almost $1.1 trillion. 8. Dividends have gone from $149 billion in 2003 to over $200 biillion now. S&P companies have had over 900 increases and more than 40 companies have paid dividends. 9. Capital spending has increased from $730 billion to almost $1 trillion, an increase of over 30% Cash flows have grown faster than ever before outstripping even capital expenditures. 10. Household assets are up more than $15 trillion with only an increase of $3 trillion in household liabilities. 11. Overall, National assets have grown 30% in 3 years to $160 trillion. 12. Tax receipts were up 15% last year. Anything else? great so where is all that money coming from? My guess is a large share of it is being borrowed.... It's easy to appear wealthy while you are actually up to your ears in debt. Nice one liner non-responce. How about the following AP Report...... (which I found on NewsMax) Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:14 p.m. EDT Treasury's Snow: Budget Deficit Cut Coming Soon The Bush administration's goal of cutting the federal budget deficit in half by 2009 will be accomplished sooner, Treasury Secretary John Snow said Tuesday. With tax revenues improving, "it's clear the deficit is getting into a better posture," Snow said during a briefing on the economy. The Congressional Budget Office recently said the deficit this year could be as low as $300 billion, less than an earlier forecast. The White House in February projected a deficit of $423 billion, which would mark a record in dollar terms. Many private analysts, however, expect this estimate will be lowered when the administration releases its midsession budget review this summer. "One thing is pretty clear. With these strong revenues and the continuing attention to spending, the deficit is getting on the right path," Snow said. "The president's target of cutting the deficit in half is going to be met - is going to be exceeded - and that will be done ahead of schedule." Snow said the goal of cutting the deficit in half could be met "several years ahead of schedule," but he refused to be more specific. The administration has said it intends to slice the deficit in half - toward a size that is below 2 percent of total economic output as measured by gross domestic product. A flood of income tax payments pushed up government receipts to the second-highest level in history in April. The stronger gain in government revenues is prompting many analysts to lower their estimates for the budget deficit this year. The government recorded a $319 billion budget deficit last year, an improvement from 2004 but still the third-largest on record in terms of dollars. Snow credited the president's tax cuts with helping to boost overall economic activity and thus tax receipts as well. Democrats contend that the tax cuts plunged the government's balance sheets into red ink and ended four years of budget surpluses from 1998 though 2001. The administration has blamed mostly higher spending to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and spending to combat terrorism within the United States for the budget deficits. © 2006 Associated Press."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #43 May 17, 2006 QuoteWell, it is the American way to just finance everything and claim bankruptcy when you can't make the payments anymore..... Too many Canadians do the same thing. Time to get off of your high horse and realize that we're not all that different from them. Besides, didn't America just pass some recent laws making bankruptcy harder to do? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 May 17, 2006 QuoteTime to get off of your high horse and realize that we're not all that different from them. That's not nearly as fun, you can see so far from a high horse. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #45 May 17, 2006 QuoteWell, it is the American way to just finance everything and claim bankruptcy when you can't make the payments anymore..... Canada and the US have similar consumer debt problems, so maybe you meant it's the "Canadian Way" instead. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #46 May 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteTime to get off of your high horse and realize that we're not all that different from them. That's not nearly as fun, you can see so far from a high horse. You know, he got you but your reply was hilarious!! "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #47 May 17, 2006 Politicians....what are we going to do about them. I know how it feels to be let down by a candidate, I voted for Clinton both times and in the end he demonstrated for all to see that he was a philandering fat headed boob. What can we expect, these are after all humans, and to place ultimate trust in them is a bit naive i admit. what is our alternative? govt. by computers? I think each prez over time has made some good policy choices which in some way benefitted this country and other countries- and their share of bad ones,um- depending on your political base. Their intentions are all good, they are public servants when they take the oath. But after a few months in office it seems they all become poisoned by partisan bullshit. But thats what we have to work with, it's like a bus with a bunch of assholes in it, all shouting about which dingledork should drive, and where they should go. All the while it keeps stalling in the middle of the highway, and they have to keep getting out, read the manual, and tweak the engine to get it running again. All we can do is stay informed, watch them on the news, hope they don't crash the bus into a ditch, and vote. Now, if we can only harness this power THEN WHAT! MWAHHAHAHAHA!Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #48 May 17, 2006 Quote The Bush administration's goal of cutting the federal budget deficit in half by 2009 will be accomplished sooner, Treasury Secretary John Snow said Tuesday Excellent, that just means you are adding less to your massive debt than expected. You are right, that is great news.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #49 May 17, 2006 QuoteToo many Canadians do the same thing. Time to get off of your high horse and realize that we're not all that different from them. I'm sorry. Could you kindly point out where I said Canadians do not have the same problem? Time to get off your high horse and stop making assumptions about things you have absolutely no clue about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #50 May 17, 2006 QuoteI'm sorry. Could you kindly point out where I said Canadians do not have the same problem? That's a lame response to a comment you could've actually benefited from. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
