Ivoted for Bush in 00 and 04!

[MC208B 0]

Please accept my apology

Domestic spying, what a bunch of shit!

Latest tax cut will save me 60 bucks a year, wow.

Around 2,500 dead Americans in Iraq. How come?!?

I'm no lib and I served in Vietnam, but Bush & Co. need to go.

I hope he doesn't completely wreck the constitution prior to 08

[narcimund 0]

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Please accept my apology

For all of my grouching, let me be the first to congratulate you: "Well said."

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[billvon 3,009]

> Please accept my apology . . .

No problem! We all make mistakes. (And in your defense, it wasn't like there was a good choice to be made back in 2004; it was definitely choosing the lesser of two evils.)

[TheAnvil 0]

Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse.

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[Hawkins121 0]

Thank you for your service.


That being said... You know domestic spying has been going on looong before Bush... The media has hyped it up so naturally because we are slaves of our TV we get worked up about it.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse.

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How so? And while I can't be described as a Kerry fan, I'm pretty sure that he knows how to spell VETO .

[idrankwhat 0]

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Thank you for your service.


That being said... You know domestic spying has been going on looong before Bush... The media has hyped it up so naturally because we are slaves of our TV we get worked up about it.

That's the thing about this administration, and congress for that matter. There's a lot that's been simply "business as usual" but this group has elevated all that "business" to a new level. The corruption, the arrogance, the spending, the spying, the torture, the sabre rattling in the middle east, etc. And it's not just media hype about the spying. Bush has flat out said that the FISA laws (along with 750 others) don't apply to him. And it's gotten to the point that even his own Justice Dept. just got shut out of the spying investigation because the Justice Dept investigators aren't being allowed a security clearance. Seems to me like they're circling the wagons pretty tightly on this one. Can you make a circle with only one wagon?

[steveorino 7]

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Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse.

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My sentiments.

steveOrino

[Lucky... 0]

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Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse.

-

Yea, the alternative might have only ran up the debt like 50% instead of 100%. The alternative might have failed to wholesale sell-out the reserve to the corporations via tax breaks, Ergonomics Bill killing, Overtime Law, Bankruptcy Law, a meaningless war that makes corps ultra-rich and so many more.

Fortunately people who voted for Bush realized the errors in their ways and won;t do it again. Hopefully those of us who, somewhat by circumstance, got it right, will use caution and wisdom this Fall and in 2 years.

[Lucky... 0]

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Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse.

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My sentiments.

How so?

[steveorino 7]

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Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse.

-

My sentiments.

How so?

I don't approve of a lot that Bush does/did, but it is my honest belief Kerry would have, could have done worse. Am I right? We'll never know.

steveOrino

[Lucky... 0]

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Please accept my apology

Domestic spying, what a bunch of shit!

Latest tax cut will save me 60 bucks a year, wow.

Around 2,500 dead Americans in Iraq. How come?!?

I'm no lib and I served in Vietnam, but Bush & Co. need to go.

I hope he doesn't completely wreck the constitution prior to 08

Way too late for the Constitution; the Republican Party's selections have been murdering it since Reagan threw them into office. What Bush has done is deplorable, but the slaughter has been ongoing for some time.

Great to hear you understand and admit that what Bush is doing is criminal and that the alternative probably wouldn't have done it. Takes a big man.

Do realize that this Republican Congress has empowered him to do some of the things he has done. Do realize Bush has no respect for war vets or even non-war vets like me. What I'm saying here is that if you researched voting records, it's the Republican Party that is stering this country the way it has gone, not just Bush, although Bush is especially reprehensible.

[Lucky... 0]

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Me too. I'm not apologizing and wonder why you do so.

Me neither. Bush was never my first choice but the alternative would have been a lot worse.

-

My sentiments.

How so?

I don't approve of a lot that Bush does/did, but it is my honest belief Kerry would have, could have done worse. Am I right? We'll never know.

That's why I ask how so. What has Bush done versus what would you project Kerry would have done, and what is the net difference?

[steveorino 7]

I do not know what Kerry would have done, but neither do you. I felt he was a liar and player. He had no ground on which he stand. Flip/flop comes to my mind when describing him. I saw him a lot like Clinton, always sticking his finger in the air to see where the the wind is blowing at that moment.

One of Bush's great strengths is also a great weakness. He makes a stand and won't budge (right or wrong) I don't like that at all, but I also detest those who have no spine. And old saying - "Better the enemy you know than the one you don't."

steveOrino

[Elisha 1]

Do you want a cookie or something?

[billvon 3,009]

> but I also detest those who have no spine.

A president is not SUPPOSED to have a spine in the way Bush has one. He is not an infallible ruler. He does not make laws. He does not declare war. He is supposed to be subject to the will of Congress, which is our governing body.

If he asks for a declaration of war against Iraq and doesn't get it, should he give up? Yes, even if some would describe that as having no spine.

If Congress passes a law that he doesn't like, should he obey it? Yes, even if people think he's a wimp.

If the Constitution prohibits him from a certain form of spying, should he roll over and just accept it? Yes.

For some reason, there are people in this country who want a strong leader, someone who never backs down and do what he pleases based on his own decisions, rather than the decisions of the people of the US and their representatives. A king, in other words. I would have been a lot more happy with a president. We fought a war over 200 years ago to get a president instead of a king; I think some people forget that sometimes.

[steveorino 7]

Bill, we disagree on some of your points. The three branches of government should bring balance. The presidential veto is a right he has and he should use it on occaision. (I wish it were use less on partisan idealogy, but that is another issue). You may want a president who signs off on everything congress passes, but I don't.

He did get approval from congress for his actions in Iraq. Why do you insinuate he didn't?

EDITED TO ADD: I don't think a strong leader = king. I don't agree with much of what Bush has done in Iraq, but I seriously doubt I'd been happy with Kerry's decisions/indecisons on that issue as well.

steveOrino

[pop 0]

I can honesatly say I voted against Bush in 00 (I was living in Texas then), and again against Bush in 04 (I was living in CAlifornia then)

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Darius11 12]

I just want to say thanks.
It takes a real man to be honest and admit when things have goon bad.

Thank you for your service to this great nation.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Lucky... 0]

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I do not know what Kerry would have done, but neither do you. I felt he was a liar and player. He had no ground on which he stand. Flip/flop comes to my mind when describing him. I saw him a lot like Clinton, always sticking his finger in the air to see where the the wind is blowing at that moment.

One of Bush's great strengths is also a great weakness. He makes a stand and won't budge (right or wrong) I don't like that at all, but I also detest those who have no spine. And old saying - "Better the enemy you know than the one you don't."

So if Kerry litterally did nothing, would that be worse than what Bush has done? We can speculate that Kerry wouldn't have initiated and pushed the Overtime Law (that was Bush's first term tho), amongst others, and he wouldn't have cut taxes for the rich. He would have gotten us out the war and worked on a real budget. Do you disagree with that? Isn;t that better than trashing the gov the way the Repubs have? Congress too.

BTW, Clinton had a plan and stuck with it - he didn't waiver, so that point is crazy.

As for flip/flop, most of Congress voted for the war if not all, and 98 of 99 Senators voted for teh Patriot Act, both due to Bush's suppression of intelligence. There's a kicker, Bush supressed intelligence.

[Lucky... 0]

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If the Constitution prohibits him from a certain form of spying, should he roll over and just accept it? Yes.

Katz v US

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0389_0347_ZS.html

[Lucky... 0]

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Bill, we disagree on some of your points. The three branches of government should bring balance. The presidential veto is a right he has and he should use it on occaision. (I wish it were use less on partisan idealogy, but that is another issue). You may want a president who signs off on everything congress passes, but I don't.

He did get approval from congress for his actions in Iraq. Why do you insinuate he didn't?

EDITED TO ADD: I don't think a strong leader = king. I don't agree with much of what Bush has done in Iraq, but I seriously doubt I'd been happy with Kerry's decisions/indecisons on that issue as well.

But when he lies to Congress, even if by omission, that kills the deal. Mr. Mehlman, on Meet the Press, said:

1. Congress had the exact same intelligence that Bush had.

2 Congress had the exact same intelligence that Bush had.

3. Russert interjected about the Washington Post's independant review and they found that Bush had omitted untelligence.

4. Mehlman then said: Congress had the basically the same intelligence that Bush had.

Anyone can figure out that Bush cherry-picked the intelligence to motivate Congress, which perverts the entire hearing.

[billvon 3,009]

>The presidential veto is a right he has and he should use it on occaision.

Agreed. But he doesn't do that. He signs the bill into law then ignores it.

>You may want a president who signs off on everything congress passes, but I don't.

I want a president who follows the constitution (including the use of the veto.) Bush does not do that. As of six months ago, he has NEVER EVER vetoed a bill, but has issued over 750 'signing statements' saying he will ignore the law he just signed.

Since then, I don't know if he has vetoed anything; I've found no evidence of it. I doubt it.

You want a president who vetoes things instead of signing everything Congress passes? Let's hope the next one does that, because this one sure doesn't.

>He did get approval from congress for his actions in Iraq. Why do
>you insinuate he didn't?

Per the Constitution, only Congress has the right to declare war. Can you point to a congressional declaration of war? (Not an 'authorization for the potential use of force' which the president has anyway - a declaration of war, as called out in the constitution.)

[steveorino 7]

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As for flip/flop, most of Congress voted for the war if not all, and 98 of 99 Senators voted for teh Patriot Act, both due to Bush's suppression of intelligence. There's a kicker, Bush supressed intelligence.

You proved my point. Kerry would have most likely done the same things if 98 out of 99 senators were for it. Would he have been better? I can honestly say I don't know. BTW - your point that Clinton took a stand is kind of laughable. I liked him a little and I thought apart from so many personal flaws he was an okay president, but he was the king of popular poll politics.

steveOrino