You can't search US! That's unConstitutional!!

[idrankwhat 0]

Hastert: FBI 'took the wrong path' when searching lawmaker's office
Majority leader suggests that issue may go to the Supreme Court

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Tuesday that the FBI and the Justice Department "took the wrong path" when they searched a Democratic congressman's office this weekend as part of an anti-corruption probe.

"We understand that they want to support and pursue the process that the Justice Department is trying to pursue," Hastert, a Republican from Illinois, said. "But there's ways to do it, and my opinion is that they took the wrong path."

The FBI searched the Washington home and office of Rep. William Jefferson, D-Louisiana, and found $90,000 of allegedly ill-gotten funds in the freezer of his home, according to an affidavit. (Full story)

Jefferson's office is in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill.

Leaders from both both parties and both houses of Congress have expressed concern about the search.

On Monday, both Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and Hastert said they were "very concerned" about the search, which was conducted under a warrant issued by a federal judge.

Hastert said the search was the first time a lawmaker's office had been searched in U.S. history.

"Nothing I have learned in the last 48 hours leads me to believe that there was any necessity to change the precedent established over those 219 years," Hastert said on Monday.

House Majority Leader John Boehner of Ohio said Tuesday that "the congress will clearly speak to this issue of the justice department's invasion of the legislative branch. In what form I don't know."

"I've got to believe at the end of the day it's going to end up across the street, at the Supreme Court," Boehner said. "I don't see anything short of that."

While emphasizing that all lawmakers must obey the law and the rules of the House, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California, on Tuesday echoed Hastert's concern that the Constitution's separation of powers had been violated.

"Our founders in their wisdom placed this separation of powers into our Constitution, not to put anyone above the law but to protect the American people of the abusive power of the executive branch," Pelosi said.

When asked whether Jefferson should step down, Pelosi said that "is a matter between him and his constituents."

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, who oversees the FBI, defended the bureau's actions Tuesday but said Justice Department and congressional officials were having "private discussions" about the propriety of the search.

"It is true it's never been done before, and the reason isn't because there's never been corruption in Congress ... but because before, we were able to reach accommodation or agreement to get the information, the evidence we needed through subpoena," Gonzales said. "And through variety of reasons, that could not occur here."

"At the end of day, the decision was made that this was essential to move forward with that investigation," he said.

Jefferson vowed Monday to stay in Congress and fight allegations that he took bribes and blasted an apparently unprecedented weekend search of his office by FBI agents as an "outrageous intrusion into the separation of powers between the executive branch and the congressional branch."

"I expect to continue to represent the people who have sent me here," Jefferson said during a brief appearance before reporters.

However, he said that on the advice of his attorneys he would not discuss details of the allegations, which he said "would be extraordinarily foolhardy" because he is the subject of an ongoing federal criminal investigation.

"There are two sides to every story. There are certainly two sides to this story. There will be an appropriate time and forum when that can be explained," Jefferson said. "But this is not the time. This is not the forum."

Jefferson has not been charged with any crime, but a Kentucky businessman and a former Jefferson aide have both pleaded guilty to bribery charges and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors. (Affidavit outlines case against congressman -- 1:28)

Last week, the House Ethics Committee opened its own investigation into the allegations against Jefferson.

CNN's Deirdre Walsh contributed to this report.



Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/23/jefferson/index.html



It looks like they only get pissed when people illegally search THEM. Welcome to our world assholes!!!!!!!

(breathe)

[sundevil777 102]

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It looks like they only get pissed when people illegally search THEM.

Plus, there wasn't anything illegal about this search?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[warpedskydiver 0]

There was so much probable cause that the judge could not refuse to issue the warrant.

[billvon 2,991]

>It looks like they only get pissed when people illegally search THEM.

Yep. Next thing you know, police be hassling them about drunk driving and taking money for their votes! It's horrific what sort of abuse those poor congresspeople have to endure.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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>It looks like they only get pissed when people illegally search THEM.

Yep. Next thing you know, police be hassling them about drunk driving and taking money for their votes! It's horrific what sort of abuse those poor congresspeople have to endure.

It is an awful shame that no matter what they get to keep their retirement pay...WTF is wrong with this picture?...yuo can be in office one day and commit a horrible crime and yet still draw around 15k per month in retirement plus benefits

[TheAnvil 0]

I don't think it's unconstitutional at all. Mr. Hastert really doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on here. What a crock.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Gawain 0]

That's fricking retarded. Yeah, take the issue of the Judicial Branch of government searching the Legislative Branch of government to the Judicial branch for final decision.

Anyway, they've got Jackson on camera. It seems to me he's toast, but we'll see what the charges and trial, if any, bring.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Lucky... 0]

Maybe they should have voted themselves criminal immunity instead of their huge pay raises.

Cunningham, now this clown..... ever wonder why the US is so corrupt? The corruption doesn't bother me as much as the selectivity.

[mnealtx 0]

Some can resist the lure of power, and some can't, I suppose.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rasmack 0]

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Maybe they should have voted themselves criminal immunity instead of their huge pay raises.

Immunity actually does make sense. It forces the executive branch to ask the legislative branch before trying one of their numbers. I can tell you that being a communist MP was a dangerous affair in several European countries that did not provide such protection during the 20th century.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[idrankwhat 0]

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I don't think it's unconstitutional at all. Mr. Hastert really doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on here. What a crock.

I really don't know if it was an illegal search or not. My understanding is that it hadn't ever been done before. And it's not just Hastert, Frist and DeLay are pretty pissed as are a bunch of other Republicans as well as some Democrats. The funniest thing would be if it turned out that the Patriot Act gave the authority for this search. I think I'd wet myself if that were the case Regardless, what do you want to bet that the Congressional staffers were cleaning out all of the offices and computers yesterday

[Trent 0]

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egardless, what do you want to bet that the Congressional staffers were cleaning out all of the offices and computers yesterday

Good, it's even easier to get a warrant to search their houses I bet. This just shows that some people don't want to be accountable. Vote 'em all out.

Oh, hello again!

[lawrocket 3]

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Immunity actually does make sense. It forces the executive branch to ask the legislative branch before trying one of their numbers.

I understand. The executive branch trying members of Congress for accepting large sums of money for votes if antithetical to the democratic process and could lead to a mistrust of the government.

Congress should be allowed to accept all sums of money, and votes shoudl be allowed for whatever purpose. It ensures that the legislators are free to do what's best for themselves America without the interference of the judiciary or executive.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

I recognize that the executive branch has police power, while the legislative branch does not, so technically it’s possible for the executive branch to abuse its police power as a way of intimidating the legislative branch. But then, that’s why we have the 3rd branch - the judicial branch; in these cases, in the form of a judge to rule on the sufficiency of a search warrant application by deciding whether or not he’s willing to sign the warrant. (And in this case, the search warrant was supported by an affidavit of some 95 pages long.)

If the authorities have probable cause to believe that incriminating evidence is located (or concealed) in a Congressman’s office, and if a federal judge is sufficiently convinced that that probable cause supports the signing of a search warrant, I see no reason why a Congressman should be any more immune to having his office searched on a warrant than ordinary slobs like you and me. Yet if you take the Congressional leaders’ argument to its logical extent, that kind of immunity is exactly what would result.

By the way, I realize that, as Jefferson said, there are 2 sides to every story. I’m just waiting for him to explain to his constituents (or a grand jury, or a court...) just what the hell $100 grand was doing in his freezer.


P.S. - News update - the President just issued an executive order directing that the materials seized from Jefferson’s office be sealed for 45 days.

[rasmack 0]

That is not what I said, and you know it. I believe this is what you Americans refer to as a "straw-man argument".

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[Andy9o8 2]

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Maybe they should have voted themselves criminal immunity instead of their huge pay raises.

Immunity actually does make sense. It forces the executive branch to ask the legislative branch before trying one of their numbers. I can tell you that being a communist MP was a dangerous affair in several European countries that did not provide such protection during the 20th century.

Ok, here's another American saying - asking the legislative branch's permission before trying a legislator for his criminal behavior is like "putting the fox in charge of the henhouse." That just gives legislators carte blanche to commit crimes under the protection of immunity. The problem with that, of course, is that it places high governmental officials above the law. And that is unacceptable in any nation governed by the rule of law. The better system is to use the 3rd branch of government, the Judicial branch, to rule on the validity of a prosecution, in order to prevent abuse of prosecutorial powers.

[rasmack 0]

OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not saying that this is the best way to go about it. I was merely pointing out that this system is actually in place in some places, and that it is there for a reason, namely to protect legally elected representatives from persecution from the executive branch.

There was another thread running here in SC where people were complaining about cops pulling them over with extremely lame excuses. Now, you may think that being an elected representative of a large group of people does not warrant special protection, but I can picture situations where repeated harassment of say a communist member of congress by the local sheriff's department would be violating citizens' right to representation or at the very least put undue pressure on a representative to change his/her vote. I see no problem in ensuring that they have a damn good case before locking up MPs.

An example is the Danish constitution, §57. This means that the case must be presented to parliament before being tried. Immunity has always been lifted. Couldn't find a list of cases in English, though.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[lawrocket 3]

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this system is actually in place in some places, and that it is there for a reason, namely to protect legally elected representatives from persecution from the executive branch.

This system has actually been in place in the US since 1787. It's part of the Constitution, what is called the "Speech of Debate Clause." Members of Congress "shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony, and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their attendance at the Session of their Respective Houses, and in going to and from the same, and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place." Article I, section 6.

A brief review of the case law suggests that this is interpreted to mean that they cannot be held to answer for their "legislative acts." Which is the controversy - "What is a legislative act?"

The Supreme Court has held that accepting a bribe is not a "legislative act." US v. Brewster, (1972) 408 US 501. In that case, a former Senator was charged with accepting bribes. The lower courts dismissed it on the basis of the immunity. The SCOTUS said, "Taking a bribe is, obviously, no part of the legislative process or function; it is not a legislative act. It is not, by any conceivable interpretation, an act performed as a part of or even incidental to the role of a legislator. It is not an "act resulting from the nature, and in the execution, of the office." Nor is it a "thing said or done by him, as a representative, in the exercise of the functions of that office," 4 Mass. at 27. Nor is inquiry into a legislative act or the motivation for a legislative act necessary to a prosecution under this statute or this indictment" (Id. at 526).

So, I'm wondering what argument this guy has. And I'm shocked by the reaction of Congressional leaders, who seem to believe this is an "internal problem." What the hell are Pelosi and Hastert hiding?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[akarunway 1]

"This system has actually been in place in the US since 1787. It's part of the Constitution, what is called the "Speech of Debate Clause." Members of Congress "shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony, and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their attendance at the Session of their Respective Houses, and in going to and from the same, and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place." Article I, section 6."-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I was going to post the same thing yesterday, but, when reading the Speech and Debate Clause I saw "FELONY". Doesn't that give the PC for the warrant? I'm sure this will make it to the SC. All them lying bastards are trying to cover their tracks right now as fast as they can. Wish I owned a document shredder co. right now. LOL-------------------

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[billvon 2,991]

>What the hell are Pelosi and Hastert hiding?

I don't think they are (currently) hiding anything - at least, anything beyond the collection of sins that all politicians accumulate to some degree over time. They are mainly very worried that this will set a precedent, and that they will be subject to a similar search in the near future. That would change how all politicians do business (which would be good for us, bad for them.)

I really hope Jefferson resigns; it would pre-empt all the drama that's about to accumulate around this investigation. I find it ironic that the House can't unite even over issues like immigration, the Iraq war or the deficit, but can unite behind a crooked politician.

[rehmwa 2]

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>What the hell are Pelosi and Hastert hiding?

I don't think they are (currently) hiding anything - at least, anything beyond the collection of sins that all politicians accumulate to some degree over time.

Do you honestly believe that just because no one can prove Pelosi and Hastert aren't having wild monkey sex with rabid horses that it isn't really happening? Now who's being naive. These congressmembers have odd and confusing hobbies

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

Today's news has a report of gunfire in the Congressional office building parking garage. Capital police are doing a room by room search of the entire office building for a possible gunman.

Shouldn't the Congressmen be screaming about how the police are violating their constitutional separation of powers, and demand that the police leave immediately?

[Andy9o8 2]

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Today's news has a report of gunfire in the Congressional office building parking garage.

It was a gun-o-phobe taking two to the chest.

[rasmack 0]

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It was a gun-o-phobe taking two to the chest.

Good one!

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Today's news has a report of gunfire in the Congressional office building parking garage. Capital police are doing a room by room search of the entire office building for a possible gunman.

Shouldn't the Congressmen be screaming about how the police are violating their constitutional separation of powers, and demand that the police leave immediately?

Fucking morons don't know a hammer drill from a gunshot. Think they're a little(well deserved)paranoid lately?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.