Shotgun 1
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philh 0
"Atheistic faith: The sudden appearance of all matter from nothing, by nothing, and for nothing"
i think you need to check your facts. First off there is an observed phenemenon called a quantum vacum fluctuation which exactly meets your description. Many scientists have built model of the origin of the universe based upon such fluctuations. The idea being that negative gravatational energy balances out the positive mass energy, thus allowing the universe to be borne out of such a vacum fluctuation. Whether these two energy do balance out is not exactly known. But to say its basd upon blind faith is very wrong indeed.
Furthermore atheism does not imply any belief as to the origin of the univers. Even if the models described above are entirely wrong its makes no difference. Atheism is the dis belief in god not the the belief in any one explanation of the universes origin. To simply answer "I dont know" to the question of our origins is sufficient. Even if every proposed scientific explanaiton is wrong does not make the god explantion right.
i think you need to check your facts. First off there is an observed phenemenon called a quantum vacum fluctuation which exactly meets your description. Many scientists have built model of the origin of the universe based upon such fluctuations. The idea being that negative gravatational energy balances out the positive mass energy, thus allowing the universe to be borne out of such a vacum fluctuation. Whether these two energy do balance out is not exactly known. But to say its basd upon blind faith is very wrong indeed.
Furthermore atheism does not imply any belief as to the origin of the univers. Even if the models described above are entirely wrong its makes no difference. Atheism is the dis belief in god not the the belief in any one explanation of the universes origin. To simply answer "I dont know" to the question of our origins is sufficient. Even if every proposed scientific explanaiton is wrong does not make the god explantion right.
pirana 0
Have you considered the possibility that your friend has had a spiritual experience, which science simply doesn't have the technology, and probably never will, to define as real.
No, don't think I said that. Simply put, the practicing of anatomy, biology, chemistry, etc. resulted in knowledge that saved his life. It could be said that his will to live was involved also, but that had nothing to do with faith (he found God quite a ways down path of recuperation.
I would definitely consider that he had a spiritual experience, but that is not religion. Spritiuality is individualistic, religion is a group activity. I am very spiritual, but not in the least bit religious.
As far as science being concerned with whether or not a spiritual experience is/was real or not; I do not know what you mean or what you are asking. You seem to be stating that science doesn't have the technology to determine the real-ness of a spiritual experience. Agreed, if what you mean by that is some sort of vision or epiphany manifested as a thought process. Don't think science is a consideration there.
On the other hand, if it is like someone claiming to see ghosts or experience other supernatural phenomena, then science can be brought to bear.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
pajarito 0
Spritiuality is individualistic, religion is a group activity.
A religion is merely a roadmap to a destination. I can practice a religion all by myself.
pirana 0
I consider an atheist to be 'actively' non-religious (a religious position in itself).
So choosing not to be religious is being religious? If I choose not to buy into astrology am I being astrological?
I'll give you that believing God does not exist is a belief, but not that it is a belief system. Religion with it's rituals, worship, martyrs, sacred places, etc. is a belief system.
A person with no awareness of religious beliefs, and therefore no opinion on them, would not have a belief in God. Using your logic, they would be religious.
Just to reiterate, because I get a lot of questions that obviously try to corner me as anti-God or anti-religious. I have no problem accepting others religious beliefs as valuable to them, and respecting them and their beliefs as long as they stick to matters of faith - such as belief in God's existence. I do take issue, and strongly oppose any attempt to institutionalize dogmatic beliefs that are proven untrue (such as the Earth being created in 7 days and other such tripe).
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
JackC 0
I consider an atheist to be 'actively' non-religious (a religious position in itself).
So choosing not to be religious is being religious? If I choose not to buy into astrology am I being astrological?
I'll give you that believing God does not exist is a belief, but not that it is a belief system. Religion with it's rituals, worship, martyrs, sacred places, etc. is a belief system.
A person with no awareness of religious beliefs, and therefore no opinion on them, would not have a belief in God. Using your logic, they would be religious.
Just to reiterate, because I get a lot of questions that obviously try to corner me as anti-God or anti-religious. I have no problem accepting others religious beliefs as valuable to them, and respecting them and their beliefs as long as they stick to matters of faith - such as belief in God's existence. I do take issue, and strongly oppose any attempt to institutionalize dogmatic beliefs that are proven untrue (such as the Earth being created in 7 days and other such tripe).
I agree completely. But there is a subtle difference between the statements: "I do not believe in god" and "I believe there is no god". Both statments of atheism but meaning different things.
Although I still can't get my head around how someone can actively not do something. Not doing something seems to be about as inactive as you can get.
Tonight I'm going to actively not do the washing up, I'm going to actively not do my paperwork and I'm going to actively not go to the gym. In other words, I'm going to actively sit on my arse and do fuck all.
rehmwa 2
If I choose not to buy into astrology am I being astrological?
Maybe non-strological. If you mocked and actively tried to derail astrology, then would it be a-astrological. But that's silly, you have more important things to do than that. Like get your skis tuned up for next year.
I'll give you that believing God does not exist is a belief, but not that it is a belief system. Religion with it's rituals, worship, martyrs, sacred places, etc. is a belief system.
Ahh, that I can accept. I do differentiate between Faith, Religion, and (organized) Church and have done it here before
Faith - a belief (subjective and unprovable in nature)
Religion - rituals and behavior used to exercise faith
Church - a power structure design to provide Religion in order to exploit the Faith(ful) [call me cynical]
so I'll change my game and call atheism a faith, not a religion. But, I then have to call the DFL and RNC "Churches". This is fun
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
pajarito 0
Although I still can't get my head around how someone can actively not do something. Not doing something seems to be about as inactive as you can get.
Try jumping out of the plane and "not" deploy your parachute. Your "inaction" will get you killed. Inaction can be just as important as action.
JackC 0
Try jumping out of the plane and "not" deploy your parachute. Your "inaction" will get you killed. Inaction can be just as important as action.
Sure inaction can be dangerous but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't see how I can actively not do something. How can I be actively inactive?
Although I still can't get my head around how someone can actively not do something. Not doing something seems to be about as inactive as you can get.
"faith is being siezed by what you cannot see." Martin Luther King
Try jumping out of the plane and "not" deploy your parachute. Your "inaction" will get you killed. Inaction can be just as important as action.
we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively
wishers never choose, choosers never wish
wishers never choose, choosers never wish
pajarito 0
Sure inaction can be dangerous but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't see how I can actively not do something. How can I be actively inactive?
You are actively refusing to take action.
jakee 1,559
So do Aardvarks go around hating Ardvarks? I always thought there was something off about those critters.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
JackC 0
You are actively refusing to take action.
So, there must be an infinite number of things I must be actively not doing, not believeing or not thinking at any given moment. I didn't know I was so busy. If I tell my boss about this, will I get a raise?
Royd 0
According to the secular side of this discussion, if something cannot eventually be grasped and understood by the five senses, then it cannot possibly be real.As far as science being concerned with whether or not a spiritual experience is/was real or not; I do not know what you mean or what you are asking
Being spiritual is admission that something outside of the realm of oneself, can influence our thought patterns.I am very spiritual, but not in the least bit religious.
The gathering of likeminded people to support and stengthen one another in their common bond, only seems to raise the ire of certain people when spirituallity is the common bond.
As I wrote in an earlier post, going to church week in and week out is like being stuck forever in the 12th grade. There's just got to be more to it than this.
That is where we must separate Christianity and religiosity. One is the performance of God and Christ, the other is the effort of man.
Actually, Bobisticism is not all it's cracked up to be. A bunch of pansy know-it-alls who think they're better than everyone else... Hmm, quite similar to atheism and Christianity.
In fact, screw the atheists and all those other religious-types... I think I'll go join in on the whole militant homosexual agenda thing... I bet they have a lot more fun than anyone else.
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