How about " I am an atheist, and proud of it?

[jakee 1,556]

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PAH!! Oh, the ignorance of this statement! Come to my company, my friend. Come tour my company. Teva Neuroscience, in Horsham Pennsylvania. We make Copaxone, an MS drug and just got FDA approval for a Parkinsons drug. And we're the world's largest generic drug manufacturer in the world. You won't be making that ridiculous statement after witnessing the science behind our drugs.

Yeah, you're right, it was a dumb thing to write.

But I'm sure you'll agree though that the primary aim of almost all pharmaceutical companies is to be a viable business venture? And also that unknowingly releasing what turns out to be a harmful product onto the market does not reflect on the morality of the researchers who developed it or the effectiveness of the scientific method.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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we then need to trust our governments (yeah right!) to peform that task on our behalf.

The problem there,appears to be, that one side of the aisle is in bed with them philisophically, and the other side, financally.

What are you going to do?

[Royd 0]

And also that unknowingly releasing what turns out to be a harmful product onto the market does not reflect on the morality of the researchers who developed it or the effectiveness of the scientific method.
***I don't know what pharmecutical advertising is like there, but here, there seem to be some pretty hard warnings with the advertisments like, If you experience sudden bleeding from the eyeballs this drug may not be for you.
Sound like a science experiment that wasn't carried to it's final conclusion.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Then how can we trust those hypothesising about stuff that happened 2000 years ago? I'd trust the scientists more as thier work is publish and they allow other people to comment and correct them. They are working on physical laws which are repeatable.

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Why not use science for the study of PHYSICAL phenomena and religion for SPIRITUAL matters.

Trying to make one replace the other is just silly.

By the way, I am a scientist AND a Christian.

This isn't difficult to understand.

Saying Religion doesn't match the yardstick of Science is kind of like saying Art History doesn't match the yardstick of Mechanical Engineering.

It's not supposed to. You don't use one in place of the other.

Speed Racer
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[narcimund 0]

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Saying Religion doesn't match the yardstick of Science is kind of like saying Art History doesn't match the yardstick of Mechanical Engineering.

It's not supposed to. You don't use one in place of the other.

That's fascinating and leads me to ask a question:

Is the Christian TRUTH more like the truth of mechanical engineering or the truth of art history?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Royd 0]

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Is the Christian TRUTH more like the truth of mechanical engineering or the truth of art history?

Oh, ye of little faith.

The first is in the spiritual realm, which does exist.
The other two are in the physical realm.

Let's just hope that your first spiritual experience won't be your last!

[narcimund 0]

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Let's just hope that your first spiritual experience won't be your last!

Uh thanks, I think. Anyway, back to the question I posed. I'll rephrase it in case the meaning isn't getting through. Let's classify some truths:

GROUP A
* Rocks are hard
* Fire is hot
* E=MC^2

GROUP B
* Chocolate is tasty
* Red is prettier than blue
* Cruelty is inhumane

Now I have one more truth to classify:

* The Bible is the word of god

Does it go in Group A or Group B?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Royd 0]

[DZJ 0]

As for people trying to rewrite history, we see it in his country amongst the liberals who just don't like the way things turn out. Everything from Columbus to the war in Iraq.And I suppose the right has never massaged history for it's own ends either, eh?

[kelpdiver 2]

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But I'm sure you'll agree though that the primary aim of almost all pharmaceutical companies is to be a viable business venture?

No, the primary goal is to produce new and useful drugs that improve our quality of life. Being viable is a necessary condition towards that end. And certainly some would question if all of these social drugs (ie, Paxil) really improve life.

[kelpdiver 2]

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<>
- Let's show some balance here.

You've got to admit that if someone wasn't putting a thumb on the scientific community, things would run amuck quickly.
There would be experiments that would equal or exceed those of the Nazis.

And as he already pointed out, we already know that religion has lead experiments that equal and exceed the actions of the Nazis.

OTOH, you have nothing to support your claim.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yeah, just LOOK at how the meaning of this verse has completely changed throughout the course of time and number of translations!

Translations/versions remain awfully constant, don't they? No matter how/when you translate it, its meaning remains the same. The bible is dependable no matter which version you use.

umm, how many different major Christian Protestant sects do we have? They view their translations differently enough that they have their own church to celebrate it!

As a very disinterested viewer, the most obvious variations center around the ritual with the bread and wine.

[pajarito 0]

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umm, how many different major Christian Protestant sects do we have? They view their translations differently enough that they have their own church to celebrate it!

What about different denominations?

The reason there are different denominations within Christianity is because the Bible allows for us to have differences of opinions. Within Christianity there are very few essential doctrines that define what it means to be a Christian. These essential doctrines are,

1. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
2. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
3. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
4. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
5. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8)
6. God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (See Trinity)
7. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (nature of incarnation)

As long as a church believes in these essential doctrines, then it is Christian. However, there are many things in the scriptures that have been interpreted in different ways. For example, what day of the week should be worship on, Saturday or Sunday? Should we baptized by sprinkling or baptized by immersion? Do we take communion every Sunday, once a month, or once a year? The answers to these questions do not affect whether or not someone is a Christian or not. It is in these issues, and others like them, that denominations are formed. It does not mean that one denomination contradicts another. It means that though they agree in the essentials, they differ in some nonessentials. This is permitted in Scripture:
"Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind," (Rom. 14:1-5).
Sadly, there is another reason for denominational differences and that is the failure of Christians to live according to the will of God. The truth is that we are all sinners and we do not see things eye to eye. It is an unfortunate truth that denominational differences are due to our shortsightedness and lack of love. But, the good thing is that God loves us so much that He puts up with our failures. There waits for us, in spite of our differences, a great reward in heaven. Neither salvation nor damnation is dependent upon our differences. Our salvation is based on our relationship with Christ.

What about different denominations?

[micro 0]

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Yeah, just LOOK at how the meaning of this verse has completely changed throughout the course of time and number of translations!

Translations/versions remain awfully constant, don't they? No matter how/when you translate it, its meaning remains the same. The bible is dependable no matter which version you use.

umm, how many different major Christian Protestant sects do we have? They view their translations differently enough that they have their own church to celebrate it!

As a very disinterested viewer, the most obvious variations center around the ritual with the bread and wine.

a very valid question... last tmie i checked there were over 26,000 different protestant denominations, that's right, 26 THOUSAND. All churches that split, for one reason or another, over squables typically over arguments involving doctrine. The original splits, i.e. eastern orthodox, king henry, luther, calvin, etc., split from what was the one Christian Church, the catholic church.

Sorry, but the plethora of different churches all claiming to be Chritian is, to me, scandalous. Christ prayed, "Father, may they be one as We are one..."

Does a fractional flock of over 26,000 really seem like one family? It's no wonder Christians have such a bad name in the world. It's my belief this has a bit to do with it.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[pajarito 0]

What's up my "Catholic" brotha from anotha mutha!

[shropshire 0]

That number is mind boggling.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[niolosoiale 0]

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* The Bible is the word of god

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That would be - The Bible is the word of God.

I'm guessing, group B.

So you agree that the above statement is opinion, and not fact?

Well then, now that we have that out of the way.

[Royd 0]

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And I suppose the right has never massaged history for it's own ends either, eh?

I'm sure you are right. Which brings us back to one of the main points of the discussion.
If mankind had truth and love built into their being, we wouldn't need a set of rules that say;

Thou shalt not lie, kill, or steal, etc.

[jakee 1,556]

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If mankind had truth and love built into their being, we wouldn't need a set of rules that say;

Thou shalt not lie, kill, or steal, etc.

I thought the christian position was that we did have these things built into us. Image of god and all that jazz.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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And as he already pointed out, we already know that religion has lead experiments that equal and exceed the actions of the Nazis.

OTOH, you have nothing to support your claim

Are you trying to tell me that there is no proof that the nazis commited horrific experiments on any number of the people, not just the Jews, that were under their submission?
If so, you truly have a set of blinders on.

[Sockpuppet 0]

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And as he already pointed out, we already know that religion has lead experiments that equal and exceed the actions of the Nazis.

OTOH, you have nothing to support your claim

Are you trying to tell me that there is no proof that the nazis commited horrific experiments on any number of the people, not just the Jews, that were under their submission?
If so, you truly have a set of blinders on.

Actually the Nazis were trying to support an ideology....kind of like religous people.

Who was it earlier in this thread that argued people "only answer the bits that make them seem they are winning the arguement" then didnt answer any of my question in an earlier post.

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Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh.

[Royd 0]

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Let's just hope that your first spiritual experience won't be your last!

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Uh thanks, I think

What I'm saying is, one second after you walk through death's door is two seconds too late to enjoy your first spiritual experience.

[hairyjuan 0]

your blind belief is laughable, i've offered irrefutable proof that religion is mythology personified and nothing more, the bible proves itself false!

http://www.truthbeknown.com

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[Sockpuppet 0]

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Let's just hope that your first spiritual experience won't be your last!

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Uh thanks, I think

What I'm saying is, one second after you walk through death's door is two seconds too late to enjoy your first spiritual experience.

Doesnt the lord almighty forgive everyone? If thats true then I'm in the clear!

Life of Sin ahoy!

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Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh.

[Royd 0]

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Who was it earlier in this thread that argued people "only answer the bits that make them seem they are winning the arguement" then didnt answer any of my question in an earlier pos

Touche!

Sorry, man. I looked at the post, and you were quoting someone else, so I didn't know it was directed at me.

I'm new at this, so I don't know how to pull down more than one post at a time, so, I'll see you on the next one.