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Darius11

Cost of war

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>If there is to be a fight we take it to them or we die here.

Were you really scared back in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was going to come over to the US and kill you?



Terrorist bill, terrorists, and don't say there is no link to them because that one has be debunked and is now the lie.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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What makes you think that Iraq caused 9/11? To the degree that it deserves what it is getting now, which is more attention than Afghanistan?

You can say he sponsored terrorism; however, others sponsored it too. Is it just that we decided to pick Iraq? It was their (un)lucky day?

There is not a significant amount of evidence supporting that Iraq had a causative effect on 9/11. They were not Iraqis. They were not trained (at least mostly) in Iraq. They were not funded (at least mostly) by Iraq. Iraq has not been calling for the destruction of the US.

War is not cool. It's not the "making of a man" or of a president. It's the worst of all possible ways to settle a difference, and should be the absolute last resort. It shouldn't just take "they told me I could, and I'm the president so I decided to." That's a stupid rationale.

Wendy W.



I believe you over simplify the choice and reasons. Luck of the draw? Come on now. You don't really belive that do you?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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>Terrorist bill, terrorists, and don't say there is no link to them because
>that one has be debunked and is now the lie.

Was that english? Did you mean that Saddam Hussein has links to terrorism? No argument there.

Of course, we have supported terrorism far more than he has. Chances are that if you ever go to Iraq and (god forbid) get shot by an AK-47, it was a gun we gave to Islamic terrorists so they could kill people.

So I'll ask you again - were you really worried that Saddam Hussein was going to kill you before the Iraq war? Are you now confident you are free from any threats of terrorism now that he is in custody?

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> I think we need to be in Iraq. We are there for the right reasons . . .

What are they?



Our security and to prevent or limit more 911's. Nothing more is needed.

Our safety is the no 1 priority of the President of the US.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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So I'll ask you again - were you really worried that Saddam Hussein was going to kill you before the Iraq war? ?



By his actions and involment? YES

I don't know if worried is the right word but again YES
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Do you have data, or just witty repartee?

How do I oversimplify? Can you describe it? Or will it remain an assertion, unassailable because it has no substance?

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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>Our security and to prevent or limit more 911's. Nothing more is needed.

Then the war has failed. Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.

----------
Ewen MacAskill in Washington
Saturday April 29, 2006
The Guardian

The US state department acknowledged yesterday that there is a risk of Iraq becoming a safe haven for terrorists three years after the invasion of the country.

The warning is contained in the state department's annual country reports on terrorism. The report, which suggests an increase in terrorist attacks worldwide, appears to undermine repeated claims by President George Bush that the US is winning the "war on terrorism".
------------.
Musharraf: Iraq war has made world 'less safe'
But says pulling troops too early would be a mistake

Monday, December 6, 2004 Posted: 3:09 AM EST (0809 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was a mistake that has made the world a more dangerous place, but a swift withdrawal would make matters worse, Pakistan's president said this weekend.

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>Is it just that we decided to pick Iraq? It was their (un)lucky day?

The above is from your post. The reasons for going into Iraq public (and it was more than the WMD argument) Now you post the above and I have to bring the data?

Dam near all the Senators and Reps and Presidential wanna bes said SH was a danger to US security. (and lond before anybody ever knew who Bush was) GWB finally had the gonads to do something about what EVERYBODY believed and many still believe and now he is an evil idiot that mislead the Amerial people?:S BS, we are there for the right reasons. Just ask 99.9% of the troops that are over there and are reupping at record rates......
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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>Then the war has failed. Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.

BULL SHIT!
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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>Then the war has failed. Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.

BULL SHIT!



:S mainland America may not have had strikes on it, but there are many terrorists attacks around the world still going on



And many many more that have been stopped that we will never hear about.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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>Then the war has failed. Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.

BULL SHIT!



:S mainland America may not have had strikes on it, but there are many terrorists attacks around the world still going on



And many many more that have been stopped that we will never hear about.



if we never hear about them, how do you know?

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>We have spent $286,429,796,292 on the Iraq war witch I can easily say most people think was wrong to start.

More generalizations you can not back up. Talk about waiting for the laughter to subside.........:o



The dollar thing certainly wasn't a generalization...accurate or not it was a quite specific. As for the latter part, note that he said "most people", not "most US citizens". Given that, I'd probably agree with him. The international community was not and is not substantially supportive of our invasion of Iraq.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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>The international community was not and is not substantially supportive of our invasion of Iraq.


I do not care what the international communtiy or the UN think about any of this. This is about our security as well as our allies.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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>The international community was not and is not substantially supportive of our invasion of Iraq.


I do not care what the international communtiy or the UN think about any of this. This is about our security as well as our allies.



That's cool. However, it doesn't make what Darius posted any less accurate.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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>If there is to be a fight we take it to them or we die here.

Were you really scared back in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was going to come over to the US and kill you?



Terrorist bill, terrorists, and don't say there is no link to them because that one has be debunked and is now the lie.



Been reading NewsMax again, haven't you?

Try the National Enquirer, it's more credible:D
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Bullshit. If this is about our security, it's about like "securing" your house by putting up a big wall, then going around and shooting the dogs of neighbors that look like the one that bit you.

You'd be surprised at just how motivated really pissed-off people can be, and if you're the one who pissed them off, well, guess who they'll be motivated against.

Even in a house, eventually you have to go buy groceries. In a country, it's way more open. We cannot secure ourselves from terrorists by first generating a lot more, then building walls and searching ferry boats.

Saddam Hussein was a bad man. So is Mugabe, and the head of N. Korea, and a whole bunch of other people. We can't take them all on and survive. We'll be stupid if we try to. And the more we distance ourselves from other countries and other cultures, the more likely we make it for them to see us an someone unlike them, and therefore a subject of contempt, fear, or hate.

Is that really the goal? You can be secure by moving to somewhere really remote and not going out. There is risk associated with any lifestyle, and managing that risk should involve reducing it as early as possible, rather than putting a barrier up to it.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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The dollar thing certainly wasn't a generalization...accurate or not it was a quite specific.



It's running on autopilot - X $ per second, so it can't be accurate. Precise, yes.

--
Darius - the problem I see is that no one is really paying this price. It's deficit spending anyhow, so it shouldn't have been replaced with other spending. It shouldn't have been spent at all. (or we should have left Iraq in shambles as soon as we got Hussein - would have saved a bundle)

Since reinvading Iraq was at least 50% about oil, I'd say that we could get nice traction by taking last year's war cost, divide in half and then into the number of gallons we used, and apply that war surcharge this year. Then the people can make inforned decisions about which wars are a good investment in our well being and which ones are not.

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Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.



What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't invaded Iraq? What proof do you have that there weren't 2nd, 3rd, 4th, attacks planned after 9/11? Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.

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Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.



What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't invaded Iraq? What proof do you have that there weren't 2nd, 3rd, 4th, attacks planned after 9/11? Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.



and were is your information saying that they would be !

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>And many many more that have been stopped that we will never hear about.

Riiiight. I bet the old Star Wars program stopped a few alien invasions, too. And those liberal fools have the nerve to criticize it! We'd all be speaking Martian if not for that program.

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>What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't
>invaded Iraq?

The State Department recently released a report detailing how Iraq was becoming a breeding ground for terrorists due to the secterian violence. Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator who supressed such violence. Now that we are there and the country is tearing itself apart, we have created conditions ideal for the creation of new terrorists.

>Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been
>dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.

Easy:

--------------------
CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq
Recommends freeing detainees held for weapons knowledge

Updated: 6:24 p.m. PT April 25, 2005
WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.
---------------

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