freeflajankie 0 #1 June 12, 2006 So the gun I first bought was crap... Couldn't even fire 1 round...So I exchange it for a different one, a Kel-tech .380 got to shoot off a couple of rounds last evening... I couldn't believe how powerful it was... Such a tiny gun and it still threw me off... Anyway, the guy asked if I wanted protection ammo or range ammo. I told him, range since that is where I will be practicing. Now I wonder what is the difference??? Next weekend I'm taking a gun course for concealed weapons license so I'm sure I will learn a bunch of stuff there. But I figured the more I can find out now the better right Maybe I'll be top of my class... So any info you guys can hook me up with the happier I will be:) AnkieSkydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks... And that's why I don't skydive anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 June 12, 2006 Range ammo is usually "ball" ammo... full jacketed. Protection ammo is susually hollowpoint. Better expansion for self-defense situation.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 June 12, 2006 Defense vs. Range (or plink) ammo. Defense rounds are typically hollow point and are of a high grain then plink ammo. They also typically have a faster muzzle velocity and they cost a bit more then range ammo. Range ammo is ball ammo (rounded and sometimes jacketed nose). Its cheap and easy to shoot. That Kel-Tech 380 is one really fun little weapon to shoot. Have you seen this for it? http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=KT-P32380--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #4 June 12, 2006 Quote Anyway, the guy asked if I wanted protection ammo or range ammo. I told him, range since that is where I will be practicing. Now I wonder what is the difference??? 1. Effectiveness in social situations. Some hollow points will expand to twice their original diameter. Bullets with a full metal jacket don't expand. Punching bigger holes in bad guys may stop whatever they were doing sooner. 2. Price. You can spend over twice as much on defensive ammo. With the number of rounds you'll expend becoming proficient the difference will be hundreds of dollars. 3. Reliability in semi-automatic pistols. Some cartridges are less reliable in some guns. A gun designed to feed millitary cartridges with full-metal jacketed bullets may not work reliably with hollow points. You want to feed a few hundred rounds of what you'll be using for defensive purposes through your gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenneth21441 0 #5 June 12, 2006 The pistol you purchased will work for self defense. As the story of the difference rounds is noted. You might want to see who reloads near you and have a box of custom rounds made if you live in an apartment or have loved ones in another room (close By). This is a reduced amount of powder in the case that will allow you to hit your target without over doing it. Be sure to keep your ammo separate from the pistol and if you plan to buy another caliber be sure that you mark them in a plastic bag or so to avoid confusion later... I do not know if you have kids or such but would recommend a trigger lock or so to prevent unauthorized use. Safety: Never carry a round in the chamber Always assume the pistol is loaded Never point it unless you know what you are going to hit etc.Kenneth Potter FAA Senior Parachute Rigger Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA) FFL Gunsmith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #6 June 12, 2006 The .380 is a tiny little cartridge. If you think that was "powerful", you're really going to have to try a .45. Range ammo has a round nose, while defense ammo can have a different profile. The defense ammo will probably be more expensive. But what no one else has said yet is that you need to try both at the range. The range ammo for cheap practice, and the defense ammo for reliablity. Hollowpoint ammo sometimes won't feed properly in a semi-auto, because the shape of the nose is different and it can get hung-up on the edge of something. So you need to absolutely ensure that whatever defense ammo you're going to carry, is also going to function reliably. Attached: comparison of, left to right, .380, 9mm, .45. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #7 June 12, 2006 Quote Be sure to keep your ammo separate from the pistol... Why? What good is a self-defense pistol if you don't have ammo ready to go with it? Quote Never carry a round in the chamber That depends upon the safety mechanisms of the gun. "Cocked and locked" with a round in the chamber is an accepted and safe means of carrying many pistols for self defense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 June 12, 2006 Quote You might want to see who reloads near you and have a box of custom rounds made if you live in an apartment or have loved ones in another room (close By). This is a reduced amount of powder in the case that will allow you to hit your target without over doing it. I have NEVER been a big fan of reloads or handloads for self defense carry. Not due to reliability but for liability. Even if you have a legitimate need for a custom load, what does a custom load look like to someone who knows nothing about guns? Now imagine those people on your jury or as the judge in a civil case. Quote Never carry a round in the chamber Personal choice. Many weapons can be carried with one in the chamber. It depends on the weapon and it depends on the holster. If you carry w/o one in the chamber, practice practice practice running the slide and malfunction drills. Quote Never point it unless you know what you are going to hit I want to change that to the following: Never point the muzzle at anything you don't want to destroy. That's why people learn the Sul position for movement, etc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 June 12, 2006 Quote The pistol you purchased will work for self defense. As the story of the difference rounds is noted. You might want to see who reloads near you and have a box of custom rounds made if you live in an apartment or have loved ones in another room (close By). This is a reduced amount of powder in the case that will allow you to hit your target without over doing it. Be sure to keep your ammo separate from the pistol and if you plan to buy another caliber be sure that you mark them in a plastic bag or so to avoid confusion later... I do not know if you have kids or such but would recommend a trigger lock or so to prevent unauthorized use. Safety: Never carry a round in the chamber Always assume the pistol is loaded Never point it unless you know what you are going to hit etc. Blue Glazer Safe T Slugs or try frangibles for home defense, using frangibles on the first two rounds in the chamber then hollow points(hydro shocks are good so are cor-bons) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #10 June 12, 2006 Quote The pistol you purchased will work for self defense. As the story of the difference rounds is noted. You might want to see who reloads near you and have a box of custom rounds made if you live in an apartment or have loved ones in another room (close By). This is a reduced amount of powder in the case that will allow you to hit your target without over doing it. Be sure to keep your ammo separate from the pistol and if you plan to buy another caliber be sure that you mark them in a plastic bag or so to avoid confusion later... I do not know if you have kids or such but would recommend a trigger lock or so to prevent unauthorized use. Safety: Never carry a round in the chamber Always assume the pistol is loaded Never point it unless you know what you are going to hit etc. I always have a round in the chamber, the final safety is ME yes it also depends on the gun, I prefer a pistol with NO saftey other than a disconnect. Practice using the "rocker" technique. That is to push off or stiff arm the attacker with one hand while rocking back the upper body, drawing quickly and firing 2 rounds into the abdomen at the top of the pelvis. Always start by practicing this with an UNLOADED weapons until it becomes natural. the point of aim in this drill should be at the spine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 June 13, 2006 Quote Practice using the "rocker" technique. That is to push off or stiff arm the attacker with one hand while rocking back the upper body, drawing quickly and firing 2 rounds... Why in the world would I want to let him get close enough to me that I have to fend him off with my hand? Ack! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #12 June 13, 2006 Quote So the gun I first bought was crap... Couldn't even fire 1 round...So I exchange it for a different one, a Kel-tech .380 got to shoot off a couple of rounds last evening... I couldn't believe how powerful it was... Such a tiny gun and it still threw me off... Anyway, the guy asked if I wanted protection ammo or range ammo. I told him, range since that is where I will be practicing. Now I wonder what is the difference??? Next weekend I'm taking a gun course for concealed weapons license so I'm sure I will learn a bunch of stuff there. But I figured the more I can find out now the better right Maybe I'll be top of my class... So any info you guys can hook me up with the happier I will be:) Ankie I hope that gun safety class isn't in Fla. I took mine a few yrs back for CCW. They crammed 8 hrs. into 2 and handed out guns indiscriminatly <(sp)? The chick next to me w/a GOOD semi-auto 45. on her jammed it on her first shot (w/ a full magazine) turned and w/ the gun pointed point blank at me said "What do I do now? I disarmed her in a NYC second. LOL. Scary shitI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #13 June 13, 2006 Quote Why in the world would I want to let him get close enough to me that I have to fend him off with my hand? Ack! 21ft in under a second. Knowing how to go hands on to get your time, distance and cover is crucial to self defense. Maybe its my training talking or my 13+ years of martial arts, but it makes since to me.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #14 June 13, 2006 First things first - learn the four rules of gun safety, and believe in them (1)Every gun is loaded. every time you pick up a gun, believe that it can kill. Always know there is a round in the chamber and pulling the trigger will fire. This is true until you verify otherwise with both touch and sight. I just think of it as every time I turn around, the nasty little discharge gremlins sneak up and load it. (2)Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. Self explanatory, since every gun is loaded, pointing the gun at anything risks putting a bullet there. (3)Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire. If you don't want to shoot, don't pull the trigger. The best way to keep from causing accidental /negligent discharges is to keep your finger straight and outside the triggerguard until you are ready to pull the trigger. (4) Know your target and what lies beyond. If you're shooting at something, be sure you want to shoot at it, and know what you'll hit if you miss or the shot over penetrates and passes through the target. Next, since you plan to carry this firearm, spend the money to find two or three comfortable holsters. The more comfortable carrying it is, the more likely you'll be comforted by it's presence, rather than leaving it at home or in the car, etc. As to the ammo question, it's generally a good idea to run at least several hundred rounds through your handgun to "break it in" and become truly familiar with it. In this case, more rounds are always better, because more range time is always better. Once you feel comfortable and capable with the pistol, go ahead and purchase a few boxes of defense ammunition. You need to know the difference in how they shoot and how they print on the target. Finally, seek professional firearms instruction, and be wary of anyone who offers free tactics or methods. (a) People with a quality product know they can charge for it, while the guy on the corner isn't exactly bringing home the bacon with his advice. Coincidence? I think not. (b) It will increase your abilities more than you can imagine and may serve you well if (God forbid) legal questions of liability ever becomes an issue for you.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflajankie 0 #15 June 13, 2006 Hey all, Thanks for all your advice. The class I'm taking is a 4 hour class with shooting. You will be shooting at least 50 rounds and they will teach you on the gun you have. They had a 10 hour class too, but that was for people without a gun and they where being tought all kinds of different guns. It seems like a very good class and the guy I talked to is a Cop, and he actually has the same gun I do as a back up. I don't plan on carrying the gun with me at all times, it's more for at home safety or if I'm driving through bad side of town, which happens occasionally when I get lost... Obviously I won't be leaving the gun in the car but if I have it with me it will be in my purse in my little case. I don't have kids, and at the moment I'm the only one at home so I'm the only one touching this gun. (no kids allowed in my house) I never quite understood why you would have a gun for protection and then keep the ammo locked up somewhere else. I mean if I get robbed or raped or what ever, I doubt that I would have time to grab the gun go find the ammo and load it and then protect my self. I plan on going to the range a lot to practice and get more and more good at it. So again, thanks all for your advice! AnkieSkydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks... And that's why I don't skydive anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #16 June 13, 2006 Quote Quote Practice using the "rocker" technique. That is to push off or stiff arm the attacker with one hand while rocking back the upper body, drawing quickly and firing 2 rounds... Why in the world would I want to let him get close enough to me that I have to fend him off with my hand? Ack! In case that happens, it is far more common than you think. The drill is for defense against an attacker at close quarters in a urban environment. Of course in open field situations this may never be used. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balls 0 #17 June 13, 2006 Quote Never carry a round in the chamber Might as well carry a rock ---------------------------------------- ....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #18 June 14, 2006 Quote Quote Never carry a round in the chamber Might as well carry a rock I didn't understand that comment either. Why in the hell would you carry a semi-automatic firearm and not have a round chambered? Same question for double action revolvers. The only time I understand offering that warning is if you intend to carry a single action revolver, which is probably the least commonly chosen self defense sidearm. edit: spellingwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #19 June 14, 2006 Quote The only time I understand offering that warning is if you intend to carry a single action revolver, which is probably the least commonly chosen self defense sidearm. Modern single action revolvers like my Ruger Super Blackhawk use a transfer bar and appropriately shaped hammer so they can't discharge unless you cock them and pull the trigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #20 June 14, 2006 Quote Quote The only time I understand offering that warning is if you intend to carry a single action revolver, which is probably the least commonly chosen self defense sidearm. Modern single action revolvers like my Ruger Super Blackhawk use a transfer bar and appropriately shaped hammer so they can't discharge unless you cock them and pull the trigger. That a hunting sidearm? Either way, it negates the last reason for carrying a self defense sidearm with an empty chamber. Can anyone explain why you would want to do so?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #21 June 14, 2006 Quote Quote Quote The only time I understand offering that warning is if you intend to carry a single action revolver, which is probably the least commonly chosen self defense sidearm. Modern single action revolvers like my Ruger Super Blackhawk use a transfer bar and appropriately shaped hammer so they can't discharge unless you cock them and pull the trigger. That a hunting sidearm? Hunting and long range target shooting. At 3 pounds and over a foot long it's not exactly light or concealable. I waiver on whether full-power .44 magnum (240 gr @ 1450 fps) is pleasant to shoot. In exchange you do start with 2.5X the energy of a .45 ACP which people use to good effect on deer, wild boar, black bear.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sprtdth 0 #22 June 17, 2006 I don't plan on carrying the gun with me at all times, ..... or if I'm driving through bad side of town, which happens occasionally when I get lost... __________________________________________________ Do you plan on getting lost, or is it just one of those things that happen when you least expect it? If you go through the trouble to get a CCW, carry and learn your weapon. Think of it as you do your reserve. You really don't want to have use it, but, if you need it's there to help you out of a bad situation. When I carry (CCW's are hard to come by in Kalifornia) I am locked and loaded. A .45 is far too short to use as a club. Just my opinionCRW Skies Frank CRW Diva #58 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #23 June 17, 2006 I have NEVER been a big fan of reloads or handloads for self defense carry. Not due to reliability but for liability. Even if you have a legitimate need for a custom load, what does a custom load look like to someone who knows nothing about guns? Now imagine those people on your jury or as the judge in a civil case. *** Bingo! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sockpuppet 0 #24 June 17, 2006 Why would you not want to carry a loaded pistol? Well maybe becuase that is how people get shot accidentally. If you can't draw a gun, cock it and shoot in under 2 seconds then you shouldn't be carrying it. The sidearm I am issued as my PW (along with the SA80) is never loaded in the chamber. I'd think that more people are killed by accidental discharges than are shot becuase they tried to shoot a gun at an attacker and forgot to cock it. ------ Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #25 June 17, 2006 Quote Why would you not want to carry a loaded pistol? Well maybe becuase that is how people get shot accidentally. If you can't draw a gun, cock it and shoot in under 2 seconds then you shouldn't be carrying it. The sidearm I am issued as my PW (along with the SA80) is never loaded in the chamber. I'd think that more people are killed by accidental discharges than are shot becuase they tried to shoot a gun at an attacker and forgot to cock it. If you were trained to do that by your superiors, I know a SSM in your country that would have a few choice words for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
