It's definitely here

[Lucky... 0]

What's here? More Orwellian evidence. The US Sup Ct just passed a 5-4 decision that warranted searches have no requirement for, "knock and announce." The fear is that the alleged perps will trash any evidence.

The purpose of the knock is for everyone's safety. If a person inside is cleaning a gun or in a precarious situation, they can remedy that and answer the door. About 5 years ago the high court decided 20 secinds was a fair amount of time, now they say they can sneak up and kick your door in w/o notice. Next will be loosening the warrant requirement and we will have achieved 1984. Who knows, maybe warrant requiremens for homes will mirror that of cars; virtually nothing. I wonder how teh US stacks up against other countries?

What do you think, fair trade? Loss of safety/privacy for preservation of evidence?

BTW, it went this way due to teh lovely gentlemen appointed by Bush.

[akarunway 1]

Not Mr Roberts. Say it ain't so>http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/nationworld/16055.php Big Brother's here to stay. Better start buying more guns. Just think. Soon they won't even need a warrant. They'll just have a camera in your house to make sure you don't do anything wrong. Time to go sail the seas. Thank god I won't be around to see it.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Under the old law, what do you think the homeowner was doing in the 20 seconds between the time the police knocked on the door, and the time they entered?

It might have been a better decision if the court had recognized the need for a "no knock" warrant only under special circumstances where the police would have to convince a Judge that evidence would be destroyed if they had to delay entry.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

What's here? More Orwellian evidence. The US Sup Ct just passed a 5-4 decision that warranted searches have no requirement for, "knock and announce." The fear is that the alleged perps will trash any evidence.

The purpose of the knock is for everyone's safety. If a person inside is cleaning a gun or in a precarious situation, they can remedy that and answer the door. About 5 years ago the high court decided 20 secinds was a fair amount of time, now they say they can sneak up and kick your door in w/o notice. Next will be loosening the warrant requirement and we will have achieved 1984. Who knows, maybe warrant requiremens for homes will mirror that of cars; virtually nothing. I wonder how teh US stacks up against other countries?

What do you think, fair trade? Loss of safety/privacy for preservation of evidence?

BTW, it went this way due to teh lovely gentlemen appointed by Bush.

Yep, it is starting to get fixed finally.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jumperboy357 0]

If you're not a criminal then you have nothing to worry about. Cleaning a legal gun in your own home is not going to send you to jail without passing go. This, if anything, is going to protect the police officers who have to kick down that door. The element of surprise is a good thing to have on your side. In situations like this Mr. Murphy is always lurking and and it's better to catch an armed criminal off guard.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

If you're not a criminal then you have nothing to worry about. Cleaning a legal gun in your own home is not going to send you to jail without passing go. This, if anything, is going to protect the police officers who have to kick down that door. The element of surprise is a good thing to have on your side. In situations like this Mr. Murphy is always lurking and and it's better to catch an armed criminal off guard.

kicking in a door without notice can get several people killed quickly.

Upon serving a no knock warrant do they have the right to kick in a door and then shoot the dog and people inside?.

If the answer is NO the cops they may want to knock, or be viewed as a criminal intent on killing the occupants, with all the unpleasantries of being treated as an intruder.

[jumperboy357 0]

I think even the cops are afraid to break into your house!

[masterrig 1]

Cops don't just kick-in doors... guns blazing! I think it should be more of a 'knock & kick'. As you knock, kick-in the door. As skydivers, we know, 20-seconds can be a long time. In that 20-seconds, a lot of dope can be flushed as well as other evidence destroyed. Personally, I think, our laws should lean more in favor of the cops.


Chuck

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

I think even the cops are afraid to break into your house!

They should be afraid of "breaking in" to anyones home without the announcement of their intention to serve a lawfully obtained warrant.

this does not mean lying to a judge to get a warrant, then hoping to find anything at all, is a good idea.

(fishing trips)

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Cops don't just kick-in doors... guns blazing! I think it should be more of a 'knock & kick'. As you knock, kick-in the door. As skydivers, we know, 20-seconds can be a long time. In that 20-seconds, a lot of dope can be flushed as well as other evidence destroyed. Personally, I think, our laws should lean more in favor of the cops.


Chuck

Many instances of cops hitting the WRONG house. If I'm sitting there cleaning the Glock or it's next to me and someone kicks in the door w/ a NO KNOCK people are gonna get killed. Maybe me, maybe them. It's just not right. Fuck some drugs. Are they worth peoples lives?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Just remember that a 12 gauge at 10 feet will take that ceramic plate and turn their chest into purple goo.

not to forget to mention that headshots hurt like hell I bet.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Cops don't just kick-in doors... guns blazing! I think it should be more of a 'knock & kick'. As you knock, kick-in the door. As skydivers, we know, 20-seconds can be a long time. In that 20-seconds, a lot of dope can be flushed as well as other evidence destroyed. Personally, I think, our laws should lean more in favor of the cops.


Chuck

Exactly. This discussion talks about flushing dope. What about giving the pep time to pick up his/her gun when they anounce they are coming?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

And what do you think happens when a no knock gets served and they cant smash in the door right away?...I will tell you:

Bullets flying through the door at groin height.

Police need to work smarter, not become Nazi's.

Have a warrant that is high risk? pick up the suspect OUT OF HIS HOME, then use the warrant to search.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

And what do you think happens when a no knock gets served and they cant smash in the door right away?...I will tell you:

Bullets flying through the door at groin height.

Police need to work smarter, not become Nazi's.

Have a warrant that is high risk? pick up the suspect OUT OF HIS HOME, then use the warrant to search.

Gotta agree with you there. I am getting very concerned about the tactics the SWAT Teams many police forces now employ. Why do they need a SWAT Team armed with AK47's to serve a warrant on someone who failed to show up for court on a non-violent charge?

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Cops don't just kick-in doors... guns blazing! I think it should be more of a 'knock & kick'. As you knock, kick-in the door. As skydivers, we know, 20-seconds can be a long time. In that 20-seconds, a lot of dope can be flushed as well as other evidence destroyed. Personally, I think, our laws should lean more in favor of the cops.


Chuck

Many instances of cops hitting the WRONG house. If I'm sitting there cleaning the Glock or it's next to me and someone kicks in the door w/ a NO KNOCK people are gonna get killed. Maybe me, maybe them. It's just not right. Fuck some drugs. Are they worth peoples lives?

__________________________________

Yes, it has happened, where the wrong house was raided. Law enforcement goes on the information given to them. Unfortunately, mistakes are made. Those times are hard on the cops too. They don't like it either. I'm not advocating a 'No Knock', either. We can 'if' and 'suppose', all day. I just get tired of the crime going on around me. I've been both in law enforcement as well as a crime victim. I get tired of seeing criminals 'walk' because our prisons are too full. Also, I'm not saying that cops can blatantly kick-in doors with no warning. I'm just saying that the scales have been tipped in favor of the criminal too long. It's not a perfect world and it never will be.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Cops don't just kick-in doors... guns blazing! I think it should be more of a 'knock & kick'. As you knock, kick-in the door. As skydivers, we know, 20-seconds can be a long time. In that 20-seconds, a lot of dope can be flushed as well as other evidence destroyed. Personally, I think, our laws should lean more in favor of the cops.


Chuck

Exactly. This discussion talks about flushing dope. What about giving the pep time to pick up his/her gun when they anounce they are coming?

_________________________________

I agree! Things have to happen fast if, the police are going to be able to do something. It all strikes me as the courts are saying; 'The bad guys get a 20-second head start. You, the police, must wait 20-seconds while the bad guys get away and or destroy evidence.'


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Under the old law, what do you think the homeowner was doing in the 20 seconds between the time the police knocked on the door, and the time they entered?

It might have been a better decision if the court had recognized the need for a "no knock" warrant only under special circumstances where the police would have to convince a Judge that evidence would be destroyed if they had to delay entry.

_______________________________________

That is not, a bad idea.


Chuck

[rushmc 23]

So do you view this the same way?

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/editorial/counter_terror_101_editorial_.htm

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

Quote

If you're not a criminal then you have nothing to worry about.

Further proof that ignorance is bliss.

Has it ever occured to you that occasionally the police go to the wrong address?

It has happened to me. Yes, really. A 2am knock on the door -- you know the one . . . the "cop knock". I live at XXXX North and the cops -should- have gone to XXXX SOUTH.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jumperboy357 0]

Whatever. Until you've been that person on the outside of the door than the ignorance is on your side.

[narcimund 0]

Quote

Whatever.

Brilliant reply!

Edited to add: Oh, you added an actual sentence. I see you weren't quite as impressed with "Whatever." as I was.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[quade 4]

It's not a "whatever".

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shropshire 0]

I guess that if the cops are concerned about flushing... wouldn't they just block the drains first?

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[masterrig 1]

Quote

I guess that if the cops are concerned about flushing... wouldn't they just block the drains first?

.

____________________________________

A little easier said than done, I'm sure. Besides, if it is in the drain, who say's it belongs to anyone at the residence? There wouldn't be any prints on the packaging. The police have to be able prove who the drugs belong to. You get a guy with a dime bag in his hot sweaty little hands... there's your proof.


Chuck

[shropshire 0]

fair do's - thanks.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome