steveorino 7 #26 June 22, 2006 When you ASS U ME, you make not only an ass of yourself but me too. These guys do not need some bleeding heart wondering why they weren't savvy enough to go down fighting as "they" would have done. Your lack of appreciation of what you infer as my name calling is noted, but you made the assumed statement, not me. BTW: Your "combat" friends have assumed too much too. They should have known better. I'll cut your civillian butt some slack. Shame on them! These men were soldiers who do not need their intelligence or courage questioned. JMHO, but I'm the "ugly american". steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #27 June 22, 2006 QuoteThese men were soldiers who do not need their intelligence or courage questioned. I dont believe this is true, they were in a situation that led to a horrible death. If you dont question you dont learn. Maybe they done everything right, maybe not. A dead soldier isnt excused of his/her mistakes no matter how big a tragedy it is. The ugly american? Are you feeling sorry for yourself?1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #28 June 22, 2006 Changing your thread to make my replies mean other things is juvenile, but I'll consider the source. Now back to the discussion at hand. Why would you or your "combat" friends assume these guys surrendered or went down without a fight??? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #29 June 22, 2006 Your assuming i did. I merely made the point that if they didnt then it was a huge mistake1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #30 June 22, 2006 Really? You mught want to go back and edit this statement you made. Why didnt they fight for survival? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #31 June 22, 2006 Its the usual Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush propaganda to make gullible Americans want their troops to stay there to be slaughtered. The same thing took place during W W II by Joseph Goebbels on behalf of the german people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #32 June 22, 2006 Lazy choice of wording. The whole mentality of ignoring a soldiers choices and decisions when they die just rubs me the wrong way though. Edit: I like America, i really do. But the whole patriotic American going for the throat of anyone that questions their ideas and morals just sickens me. I support OUR troops 100%. Meaning everyone fighting with the British and Americans. Maybe take a step down from the defensive position of "no one likes America so im gonna jump down your throat"1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #33 June 22, 2006 QuoteLazy choice of wording. The whole mentality of ignoring a soldiers choices and decisions when they die just rubs me the wrong way though. Who is doing that???? If you knew they laid down their guns and surrendered, I'd agree with your questioning their behavior. But to assume or make "lazy" statements that infer they did nothing to save themselves from torture is a disgrace to their service and their families that grieves. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #34 June 22, 2006 QuoteMaybe take a step down from the defensive position of "no one likes America so im gonna jump down your throat" Some how, I don't think challenging your lazy (your words) "assumption" is taking an overly defensive position. I think you may be a little defensive that I called you on it. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #35 June 22, 2006 I made a lazy assumption yes. But do you think having family in the forces gives your points a solid foundation? I have many family in the forces and family in Iraq now. I think once you've got down from your defensive high chair you should take a look at that chip on your shoulder1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #36 June 22, 2006 Okay, when I stepped down, would your assumption that they did not put up a fight be right? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #37 June 22, 2006 My assumption (how bored i am of this word) was simply what it was, excuse me for being so sinicle(sp?)1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #38 June 22, 2006 QuoteMy assumption (how bored i am of this word) was simply what it was, excuse me for being so sinicle(sp?) cynical: You're excused. Now how's your skydiving process going? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #39 June 22, 2006 QuoteWell at least something really horrible wasn't done to them, like making them wear panties on their heads. If the terrorists had done that, then all the cut-and-run liberals would have been really upset! John we have special aircraft we use to send the people we want tortured to other countries and then we have them tortured. Thank god we have standards and are not pieces of shit like the Sub humans (as gravity calls them).I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #40 June 22, 2006 Not wanting to hop into this exchange other than to ask, if anyone has read or heard from any so called Human Rights Activist if they have asked for an investigation, charges, or have expressed any outrage over the sever torture, and beheadings of two American Soldiers. However in my own Humble oppinion, martial law in this area would be a good idea with a shoot to kill order for anyone found in the streets after dark. Secure the area, house to house searches and kill all enemy insurgents without taking any prisoneers. But that just me venting. The best method would be several fuel air bombs and then bring in the dozers and level the city. The men of WWII would not set back and let this crap happen without a response. All but forgotten by the Drive By Media, they are more focused on possible wrong doing by our Marines. We're did they get their information, from our enemies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #41 June 22, 2006 Quote Most likely what happened is they were simply over ran by the terrorists While I've never been in the service, much less combat, don't they have bayonets?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #42 June 22, 2006 Usually not on a M-16, but two bayonets and a dozen people willing to die to take you as a live hostage usually gets the rsults they desired. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #43 June 22, 2006 QuoteWhile I've never been in the service, much less combat, don't they have bayonets? It's easy to sit back and Monday morning quarterback, isn't it? What would have bayonets have done if they still has ammo?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #44 June 22, 2006 Andy, just wondering what made you think of the possibility that these two soldiers laid down their arms or otherwise didn't fight for survival? And telling me that some friends of yours in service isn't what I mean...why do *you* think this, and what is *your* basis for doing so? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #45 June 22, 2006 QuotePeople need to be reminded of the kind of sadistic sub-humans we are up against. Hey, you didn't even need to use slang to show that the whole "dehumanize" thing is working for you. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #46 June 22, 2006 QuoteQuotePeople need to be reminded of the kind of sadistic sub-humans we are up against. Hey, you didn't even need to use slang to show that the whole "dehumanize" thing is working for you. Blues, Dave My comment was limited to the sadistic sub-humans who gouged out their eyes, cut off their testicles, ripped out their hearts and cut off their heads. Maybe you think "Freedom Fighters" is a better description? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #47 June 22, 2006 QuoteNot wanting to hop into this exchange other than to ask, if anyone has read or heard from any so called Human Rights Activist if they have asked for an investigation, charges, or have expressed any outrage over the sever torture, and beheadings of two American Soldiers. To whom would said activists complain? That is as stupid an idea as having human rights activists complain to the Mafia about the activities of mob hit-men. Human rights organizations are in business to prevent GOVERNMENTS from abusing people.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #48 June 22, 2006 I expected as much, not so much as a peep from these Stupid Human Rights Activist has occured to my knowledge is my primary point. > Human rights organizations are in business to prevent GOVERNMENTS from abusing people. umm, you think, and have they been successful? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #49 June 22, 2006 > not so much as a peep from these Stupid Human Rights Activist >has occured to my knowledge is my primary point. Just like we haven't heard a peep from the right wingers here about the Iraqi police who shot and killed two US soldiers. They must not care about US soldiers dying if it doesn't further their political goals! That's certainly the only possible explanation for their silence on the issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #50 June 22, 2006 If they were quoting a source they couldn't very well put words in his/her mouth. If thats what they said then thats what they said. nothing to do with being left wing or right wing, I'd say its just being objective.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
