Bodies of G.I.'s Show Signs of Torture, Iraqi General Says

[Skyrad 0]

Oh my God, all three of us agree on something!

Counter insurgency operations call for accurate targeting and good intelligence. You need to win the hearts and minds of the population amoung whom the insurgents are dependent on for support. 'Drying the swamp' so to speak. Tanks in the street just make for good targets and propergander. We closed down the IRA in NI by good targeting acting on both human and electronic intelligence. Worked on the psycops side of things on the population as a whole and on the enemy as well so he ended up so paranoid he'd hit his own people just out of fear that they were a tout.
Get the troops off the street get the National Guard et al out of theater turn it into a low intensity counter insurgency scenario, use Special forces and use them well, grow your intelligence networks. But remember the enemy will always have the advantage, he wants you to go home, he is already at home. While US troops fight because that is their job he fights because he belives. He will take as many casulties as he doesn't think about death the same way as you do. To him this is just an illusion, a brief moment in eternity which is waiting for him. He will win in the end simply because in a war of attrition he is willing to go further than you, suffer more than you and do things beyond your comprehension. Iraq is already lost because the resolve of the American people is not there for this war and the casualties you would have to bear to win it; its just a matter of how many more die before the troops come home.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Oh my God, all three of us agree on something!

DANGER DANGER DANGER

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Oh my God, all three of us agree on something!

Counter insurgency operations call for accurate targeting and good intelligence. You need to win the hearts and minds of the population amoung whom the insurgents are dependent on for support. 'Drying the swamp' so to speak.

No disagreement there.

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Tanks in the street just make for good targets and propergander. We closed down the IRA in NI by good targeting acting on both human and electronic intelligence. Worked on the psycops side of things on the population as a whole and on the enemy as well so he ended up so paranoid he'd hit his own people just out of fear that they were a tout.
Get the troops off the street get the National Guard et al out of theater turn it into a low intensity counter insurgency scenario, use Special forces and use them well, grow your intelligence networks. But remember the enemy will always have the advantage, he wants you to go home, he is already at home.

I think this depends on whether you are talking about AQ or Iraqi "insurgents. Two different animals. The "insurgents pose the greatest risk to the stability of the country because they are fighting for political control. Without the presence of US Troops at this time, it is very likely the country would fall into a civil war. OTOH AQ is fighting for an ideology and by far present the most dangerous threat to the long term stability of Iraq.

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While US troops fight because that is their job he fights because he belives. He will take as many casulties as he doesn't think about death the same way as you do. To him this is just an illusion, a brief moment in eternity which is waiting for him. He will win in the end simply because in a war of attrition he is willing to go further than you, suffer more than you and do things beyond your comprehension.

If you are talking about AQ, I agree. I think Bush has the right idea of how to win. First we must stabilize the Iraqi government so they are capable of fending off the insurgency. At that point we need to redefine our tactics and gear them more towards fighting AQ. At that point, I agree with you about our tactics.

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Iraq is already lost because the resolve of the American people is not there for this war and the casualties you would have to bear to win it; its just a matter of how many more die before the troops come home.

I hope you are wrong here about Iraq being lost. I do agree with you that the will of the American People is being challenged. It is beyond me how people cannot recognise the enemy is employing psychological warfare designed to break down their will to continue the war effort. I have consistently spoken up about this, but the pacifist on the left somehow through a "magic thinking" mentality fail to grasp that they are being manipulated.

[Channman 2]

> Perhaps evey insurgent killed needs to be castrated.. his parts shoved in his mouth and then buried in as much pork lard as we can ship over there.

That should screw over their plans for the 72 virgins and give them pause to doing attrocities to others.

I find myself in a very odd place, in agreement with Amazon.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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> Perhaps evey insurgent killed needs to be castrated.. his parts shoved in his mouth and then buried in as much pork lard as we can ship over there.

That should screw over their plans for the 72 virgins and give them pause to doing attrocities to others.

I find myself in a very odd place, in agreement with Amazon.

I don't. As usual Amazon and I disagree. I think this is a pretty stupid and childish knee jerk reaction.

[Channman 2]

> I don't. As usual Amazon and I disagree. I think this is a pretty stupid and childish knee jerk reaction.

OK, now I find myself confused

[Amazon 7]

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It is beyond me how people cannot recognise the enemy is employing psychological warfare designed to break down their will to continue the war effort. I have consistently spoken up about this, but the pacifist on the left somehow through a "magic thinking" mentality fail to grasp that they are being manipulated.

The solution is an even more intense counter psyops.... hit them where it will really hurt them... use their belief system to our advantage. Dip every bullet in lard.....send more "unclean" women over there to perform the burials..... what is being done is not working... new tactics based on the time and plaqce are in order.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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It is beyond me how people cannot recognise the enemy is employing psychological warfare designed to break down their will to continue the war effort. I have consistently spoken up about this, but the pacifist on the left somehow through a "magic thinking" mentality fail to grasp that they are being manipulated.

The solution is an even more intense counter psyops.... hit them where it will really hurt them... use their belief system to our advantage. Dip every bullet in lard.....send more "unclean" women over there to perform the burials..... what is being done is not working... new tactics based on the time and plaqce are in order.

Alright, what have you done with the real Amazon?

[Channman 2]

> Alright, what have you done with the real Amazon?

A body snatcher got her. Our she went swimming in Florida and one of them glowing fish that fall from the sky during really big storms got her.

She not human anymore

[Gravitymaster 0]

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He will take as many casulties as he doesn't think about death the same way as you do. To him this is just an illusion, a brief moment in eternity which is waiting for him. He will win in the end simply because in a war of attrition he is willing to go further than you, suffer more than you and do things beyond your comprehension.

This really got me thinking about the philosophical and theological differences between those who are dedicated to fighting this war and those who are opposed to it.

It's been my observation that a great many of those opposed to the war are avowed athiests or agnostics and those who support it tend to be more religious. I realize my observations are anecdotal, and I realize their are exceptions but that's the way it appears to me.

Could it be that because the athiests believe that once you are dead, you simply lie in the ground and there is nothing beyond, that this fear of death fuels their opposition to the war?

Let me make it clear I'm not looking to get into a debate about Christians vs Muslims or whether religious people are psychotic, violent and insane. I'm talking about the differences in their resolve.

[GTAVercetti 0]

Interesting. I don't really agree, but I like the philosophical implication so let's assume I buy into it.

I don't really think it would be a "fear of death" thing for athiest opposition. I would think it would be more of an idea that since this is the ONLY life each of us gets, we should do our best to help its continuation instead of trying to destroy it.

I am not an atheist.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Channman 2]

> I don't really think it would be a "fear of death" thing for athiest opposition. I would think it would be more of an idea that since this is the ONLY life each of us gets, we should do our best to help its continuation instead of trying to destroy it.

WOW, an interesting Thread Hi-Jack, continue...

[StreetScooby 5]

I'm not a Christian, or Muslim, etc., or atheist. The war is, nothing more or less.

Likewise, God is. Whether you waited until Jesus or Mohamamad(sp?) or whomever to find that out really doesn't matter, in the big picture beyond this life.

I'm not afraid of death, as long as it doesn't hurt

We are all engines of karma

[skydyvr 0]

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Alright, what have you done with the real Amazon?

I truly believe she left her DZ account open in some browser somewhere.

. . =(_8^(1)

[cyric77 0]

Well if you really want an "out of the box" idea that would definately make the terrorists think twice then I think I have it. Simply killing and torturing most terrorists would most-likely have no effect on their tactics what so ever. The majority of Muslims, however, are a very family oriented culture, so if you want to hurt a terrorist begin targeting their families (mothers, brothers, mom, dads, children, ect...) This could clearly not be done openly, but even if it was done covertly then the terrorists would surely know, and may think twice. It is brutal, immoral, and sickens me to even bring it up(because their family members are most likely innocent), but would clearly be effective and I see it as the only option to disuade them, especially if you held the family members captive under the threat of death or worse. All you need is the names of the specific individuals involved in the acts, and then your ready to set out after their loved ones. Some may not even give a damn about their family members, but most would, as most arabs are extremely family oriented. Also any retaliation or threats thrown out there by these insurgents in responding to this tactic aren't going to be any worse then what they have already done or want to do to us in the future

[Gravitymaster 0]

Right. Go out and murder their families in cold blood. Good idea. That'll teach'em.

[Rookie120 0]

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most arabs are extremely family oriented.

Yeah, the way they blow up people and destroy other families that really shows.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[cyric77 0]

I am sure they don't do it to their own

[cyric77 0]

It worked for Kalied Sheik Mohammad, we held his family after we captured him, and he gave up a lot of valuable info with regards to 9/11. So your saying that by capturing thier families and using it against them, it would have no effect what so ever. There is a lot more that can be done, especially psychologically rather than just killing.

[Rookie120 0]

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I am sure they don't do it to their own

I figured that much. They dont give a damn about anybody if you dont bow down to there god. They sound like some really understanding people.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Botellines 0]

That is a very good idea, the only drawback i see is that many muslims all around the world (and i mean all around the world) would begin to kidnap americans and probably executing them if bush doesn´t pull out the troops and close gitmo, etc, etc. And that wouldn´t be fun, would it?

I was taught as a kid not to do to others what i didn´t want others to do to me, and that the "i can but you cannot" is full of shit.

My 2 cents

[skydyvr 0]

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I was taught as a kid not to do to others what i didn´t want others to do to me, and that the "i can but you cannot" is full of shit.

My 2 cents

That 2 cents is worth it's weight in gold.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Skyrad 0]

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It is beyond me how people cannot recognise the enemy is employing psychological warfare designed to break down their will to continue the war effort. I have consistently spoken up about this, but the pacifist on the left somehow through a "magic thinking" mentality fail to grasp that they are being manipulated.

The solution is an even more intense counter psyops.... hit them where it will really hurt them... use their belief system to our advantage. Dip every bullet in lard.....send more "unclean" women over there to perform the burials..... what is being done is not working... new tactics based on the time and plaqce are in order.

I see what you are trying to get at but it simply wouldn't work and you'd just end up with GIs stinking in the sun surrounded by clouds of flys.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

He will take as many casulties as he doesn't think about death the same way as you do. To him this is just an illusion, a brief moment in eternity which is waiting for him. He will win in the end simply because in a war of attrition he is willing to go further than you, suffer more than you and do things beyond your comprehension.

This really got me thinking about the philosophical and theological differences between those who are dedicated to fighting this war and those who are opposed to it.

It's been my observation that a great many of those opposed to the war are avowed athiests or agnostics and those who support it tend to be more religious. I realize my observations are anecdotal, and I realize their are exceptions but that's the way it appears to me.

Could it be that because the athiests believe that once you are dead, you simply lie in the ground and there is nothing beyond, that this fear of death fuels their opposition to the war?

Let me make it clear I'm not looking to get into a debate about Christians vs Muslims or whether religious people are psychotic, violent and insane. I'm talking about the differences in their resolve.

OK, this make three posting in a row we're in agreement on! I think you may have a point here.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Well if you really want an "out of the box" idea that would definately make the terrorists think twice then I think I have it. Simply killing and torturing most terrorists would most-likely have no effect on their tactics what so ever. The majority of Muslims, however, are a very family oriented culture, so if you want to hurt a terrorist begin targeting their families (mothers, brothers, mom, dads, children, ect...) This could clearly not be done openly, but even if it was done covertly then the terrorists would surely know, and may think twice. It is brutal, immoral, and sickens me to even bring it up(because their family members are most likely innocent), but would clearly be effective and I see it as the only option to disuade them, especially if you held the family members captive under the threat of death or worse. All you need is the names of the specific individuals involved in the acts, and then your ready to set out after their loved ones. Some may not even give a damn about their family members, but most would, as most arabs are extremely family oriented. Also any retaliation or threats thrown out there by these insurgents in responding to this tactic aren't going to be any worse then what they have already done or want to do to us in the future

Morality aside, I don't belive this would work at all but just escalate things. We (the British) did the same thing in South Africa during the Boer war, we took all the Afrikaaner women and children we could get hold of and put them in concentration camps where we killed 26,000 of them through disease starvation and neglect (Needless to say they don't teach you this at school) all it did was make the Boers fight harder and make them more determined and even recruted others to the fight against whet had showed itself to be a truely evil empire.
At the moment Iraq is a contained war, if you started doing such a thing then it wouldn't be long before you saw suicide bombers on the streets of Baltimore. I thing this particular idea is a non starter.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca