Deliberately changing religious beliefs

[livendive 8]

So I've got this friend who recently married. She's been a fairly devout Christian girl (Presbyterian I believe), and her new husband is Mormon. In order to wed in the Mormon temple, she had to go through some sort of "training", and none of her family and friends were allowed to attend the wedding because they're not Mormon. Personally, I find such exclusivity snobbish, but that's not really the point of this post. What's more curious to me is that she was able to intentionally say "I have previously believed X, but I love this man so I will choose to believe Y from now on".

Similarly I know another Christian gal who's been dating an atheist. She recently told him that him not being Christian was going to become a deal-breaker for her...that he didn't need to subscribe to her exact beliefs, but he had to come to believe in the Christian God, the father/son/holy spirit trinity, and that Jesus was the son of God and died for all of our sins. The guy's offer to respect her beliefs and attend occasional services was declined as insufficient, so the issue remains outstanding.

Both of these get at the same issue. Can (and should) a person deliberately change their beliefs? If so, what does that say about their conviction or faith in the former belief? And why do so many people of any faith (Mormon, Christian, Atheist, Muslim, or Jew) insist on a significant other who shares their beliefs?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Skyrad 0]

Mormons are up there with Scientologists when it come to being described as a religion, more like a cult.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[narcimund 0]

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Can (and should) a person deliberately change their beliefs?

When I got married I had to change my belief that squares have four sides. Now I believe squares have three sides just like my spouse does.

It was hard but if you REALLY want to, you can decide that you believe some really wacky things.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kelpdiver 2]

if you believe in a God, but don't swaet the details, you can convert pretty liberally.

And if you're pagan, but your SO wants to raise a child in their church, no harm in playing along.

Both cases makes sense if the person makes you happy.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Mormons are up there with Scientologists when it come to being described as a religion, more like a cult.

I got more respect for them than I do for the Anglican church, and I'm atheist.

[Shotgun 1]

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What's more curious to me is that she was able to intentionally say "I have previously believed X, but I love this man so I will choose to believe Y from now on".

That has never made any sense to me either, yet so many people seem to do it.

I am an atheist, and I would never marry a Christian. If a guy told me that he would quit being a Christian and become an atheist just so he could marry me, I would think he was a total idiot. (Of course, this isn't likely to ever happen since I probably wouldn't date a Christian either... And I'm already married.)

[jakee 1,550]

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Mormons are up there with Scientologists when it come to being described as a religion, more like a cult.

I got more respect for them than I do for the Anglican church, and I'm atheist.

Really?

Mormonism was started by a paedophilic freak and Scientology's more of a pyramid scam than a real faith.

I honestly have no idea where people gullible enough to follow these ridiculous ideas come from

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[livendive 8]

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I am an atheist, and I would never marry a Christian.

That gets at the last of my questions. Why wouldn't you marry someone who has different beliefs? Is it only Christians you wouldn't marry or are Jews and Muslims out as well (assuming you were currently single)?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Shotgun 1]

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I am an atheist, and I would never marry a Christian.

That gets at the last of my questions. Why wouldn't you marry someone who has different beliefs? Is it only Christians you wouldn't marry or are Jews and Muslims out as well (assuming you were currently single)?

Basically I wouldn't marry anyone who believes in any kind of god; I would only marry someone who is an atheist or maybe an agnostic. I don't mind having friends that are religious, and I respect their beliefs, but I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has such vastly different ideas than I do. I think that a person's religious beliefs make up a huge part of who they are, and those beliefs tend to affect many aspects of that person's behavior. And I certainly don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who thinks I'll be going to hell since I haven't accepted his god.

Also... I have tried having a relationship with a Christian, and it just didn't work. He would get upset at certain things I would say because he thought I was being disrespectful to his religion. But I wasn't trying to be disrespectful; I was just being myself. It is one thing to watch what I say in public out of respect for others' beliefs, but I am not going to do that in private with my SO.

[Skyrad 0]

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Can (and should) a person deliberately change their beliefs?

When I got married I had to change my belief that squares have four sides. Now I believe squares have three sides just like my spouse does.

It was hard but if you REALLY want to, you can decide that you believe some really wacky things.

Are you married?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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I am an atheist, and I would never marry a Christian.

That gets at the last of my questions. Why wouldn't you marry someone who has different beliefs? Is it only Christians you wouldn't marry or are Jews and Muslims out as well (assuming you were currently single)?

Basically I wouldn't marry anyone who believes in any kind of god; I would only marry someone who is an atheist or maybe an agnostic. I don't mind having friends that are religious, and I respect their beliefs, but I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has such vastly different ideas than I do. I think that a person's religious beliefs make up a huge part of who they are, and those beliefs tend to affect many aspects of that person's behavior. And I certainly don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who thinks I'll be going to hell since I haven't accepted his god.

Also... I have tried having a relationship with a Christian, and it just didn't work. He would get upset at certain things I would say because he thought I was being disrespectful to his religion. But I wasn't trying to be disrespectful; I was just being myself. It is one thing to watch what I say in public out of respect for others' beliefs, but I am not going to do that in private with my SO.

It sounds like you are religious. Just that your religion in Atheisim.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[narcimund 0]

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Are you married?

Yes. Why do you ask? It seems like a major distraction from the main topic of conversation.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Skyrad 0]

Damn, saw straight through me!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kelpdiver 2]

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Mormonism was started by a paedophilic freak and Scientology's more of a pyramid scam than a real faith.

And the Anglicans came about because a king didn't want to obey the ban on divorce.

Christians like to mock (or kill) the Mormons as a cult, but despite not using the King James they've become one of the largest of the Jesus-God sects out there.

[rehmwa 2]

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It sounds like you are religious. Just that your religion in Atheisim.

You don't really want to go down that road. Anti-religious, quasi-pseudo Bobist atheists are a bit sensitive about those types of comments.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,550]

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And the Anglicans came about because a king didn't want to obey the ban on divorce.

Better that than carry on executing his wives.

I'm not Christian, and I still think Mormonism is fucked up beyond belief.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 2]

Formal conversions for the sake of marriage are increasingly common in those parts of the US where lots of religions live side-by-side. (Example: more so in the Northeast & West Coast; less so in the Midwest & Deep South.) But I think those conversions are more for formality's sake than a reflection of true beliefs. If a believing , born-and-raised Catholic formally converts to Judaism for the sake of marriage, I'd have a pretty hard time believing that, in her heart of hearts, she *really* ceased believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ when she converted. So I don't believe a person can truly "will" themselves to believe or stop believing a religious belief just for the sake of marriage. If you truly change your religious beliefs, it's because your thinking on the issue has so profoundly changed that it amounts to a sea-change in your belief structure – and that can't be switched on & off artificially.

Analogy: let's say a dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican changes his registration to Democrat purely to keep his job or advance his career. Did his core political beliefs magically morph from Republican to Democrat when he signed the form? Of course not. Same principle.

[narcimund 0]

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If a believing , born-and-raised Catholic formally converts to Judaism for the sake of marriage, I'd have a pretty hard time believing that, in her heart of hearts, she *really* ceased believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ when she converted.

Are you invoking Laura Schlessinger? If so, I think she'd make a strong case against your position.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[champu 1]

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Basically I wouldn't marry anyone who believes in any kind of god; I would only marry someone who is an atheist or maybe an agnostic. I don't mind having friends that are religious, and I respect their beliefs, but I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has such vastly different ideas than I do. I think that a person's religious beliefs make up a huge part of who they are, and those beliefs tend to affect many aspects of that person's behavior. And I certainly don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who thinks I'll be going to hell since I haven't accepted his god.

I feel compelled to echo this (although with "her" as the second to last word.
One option is to "agree" to not let it be an issue, and each continue on thinking in the backs of your heads that things the other person holds to be fundamental truths are wrong and/or unfounded. (which will blow up on the both of you)

Alternatively, one person can decide to "take up" the other person's beliefs for the sake of the relationship, which amounts to either one person being patronized or the other being brain-washed.

Either of these options are ridiculous to entertain.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Mormons are up there with Scientologists when it come to being described as a religion, more like a cult.

I've always considered the distinction between cult and religion to be largely bogus, based on little more than raw, relative numbers and arbitrary personal biases. If the percentage of Mormons (or Scientologists)-to-Christians in the world were exactly reversed, lots more people would refer to Christianity as a mere cult.

Every religion got its start with just a few dudes hangin' together and gettin' on the same groove. Early on, they were cults...but then they became religions? Please.

[narcimund 0]

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I've always considered the distinction between cult and religion to be largely bogus.

"Cult" means "unpopular religion".

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Andy9o8 2]

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If a believing , born-and-raised Catholic formally converts to Judaism for the sake of marriage, I'd have a pretty hard time believing that, in her heart of hearts, she *really* ceased believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ when she converted.

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Are you invoking Laura Schlessinger?

No, this is my own thought.

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If so, I think she'd make a strong case against your position.

Fine. But I've given this some thought, so she'd probably find it hard to persuade me otherwise.

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[Andy9o8 2]

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I've always considered the distinction between cult and religion to be largely bogus.

"Cult" means "unpopular religion".

My point exactly.
(I just find it hard to be concise.)

[Shotgun 1]

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It sounds like you are religious. Just that your religion in Atheisim.

Hmm, I can't find anything in the definition of "religious" that would apply to me, but if you want to think that I am religious then that's ok... Not sure that I understand why though.

[rehmwa 2]

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It sounds like you are religious. Just that your religion in Atheisim.

Hmm, I can't find anything in the definition of "religious" that would apply to me, but if you want to think that I am religious then that's ok... Not sure that I understand why though.

Good answer, as a bobist agnostic apathetic, I'm going to just take my smug self over in the corner and reflect on how neat I think toast can be.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants