Hamas to recognize Israel

[beowulf 1]

If the Palestinians had played the politics better instead of resorting to violence they would have alot more supporters. Even now if they were to discontinue their violence they would achieve more through diplomacy. The violence just kills people and alienates them from the rest of the world. It really doesn't help them at all.

[kallend 2,038]

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If Hamas were interested in peace, they would be calling for the release of the kidnapped Israeli soldier.

What has Hamas done to indicate any such interest?

The entire place is a mess. Both sides (and us too) share the blame. We should butt out and let them settle it however they may. It is never a good idea to mediate in a pissing match.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[beowulf 1]

all financial and military aid should be withdrawn for both sides.

[StreetScooby 5]

All - it is what it is. QED.

Talking about history in the current context WILL NOT solve this issue. Both sides have their own history that they claim is inviolate.

Wonder what they could talk about instead? I personally have no idea.

We are all engines of karma

[idrankwhat 0]

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I am just saying there was no official coutry there at the time.

This is Palestine from post WWI to 1948.

You know what's funny is that your attachment rebukes your statement. Palestine was not a "country" but a territory under UK protection.

As was pretty much everything else. I'm pointing out that the Palestinians had just as much if not greater claim to the area pre-1948. Unless of course you want to go back a couple of thousand years, then you get to my take on the "ownership" issue. The are is just as much "theirs" as it is "the other guy's". Both sides, and even the warring Christians have a historic claim to the land as "theirs/ours". So, I agree with the notion of playing hardball. Either Israel and the Palestinians let us in as peacekeepers and try to hammer this out once and for all or we take our money and leave it up to them to fight it out for another 2000 years.

[miked10270 0]

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Wonder what they could talk about instead? I personally have no idea.

They could unite against the Evil-Eaters-Of-Unclean-Animals.

In the meantime, the "regime-change" looks like it's still on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5122822.stm

It's obvious that Hamas hasn't been able to raise its game and actually govern Palestine. An act of war has been committed. The Israeli reaction is nothing if not predictable.

As I said elsewhere, I empathise with Israels position in this. You almost wonder if Hamas wants OUT of government, but in a face-saving way which makes them the martyr?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I say we build a wall around all of the middle east and let the jews and arabs/persians exterminate eachother...good riddance on all three....

Maybe just be pre-emptive and throw a couple of nuclear bombs on the whole area and wipe it all out. I mean if it wasn't for the jews WWII would not have happened.

(hey there is enough nonsense being posted on this thread, might as well continue....)

[pop 0]

Interesting twist. Very curious to see how this is going to play out over the next few weeks.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Gawain 0]

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I am just saying there was no official coutry there at the time.

This is Palestine from post WWI to 1948.

You know what's funny is that your attachment rebukes your statement. Palestine was not a "country" but a territory under UK protection.

As was pretty much everything else. I'm pointing out that the Palestinians had just as much if not greater claim to the area pre-1948. Unless of course you want to go back a couple of thousand years, then you get to my take on the "ownership" issue. The are is just as much "theirs" as it is "the other guy's". Both sides, and even the warring Christians have a historic claim to the land as "theirs/ours". So, I agree with the notion of playing hardball. Either Israel and the Palestinians let us in as peacekeepers and try to hammer this out once and for all or we take our money and leave it up to them to fight it out for another 2000 years.

Actually, the Palestinians have a stronger tie to Jordan than anything else. Following the 1967 war, General Dayan persuaded the Palestinians, who were packed and ready to leave Gaza and the West Bank, to stay. Gen. Dayan hoped that with everyone living amongst each other would build the bridge to better Israeli-Arab relations. The plan did not work.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

<> - it's really difficult to attack something if you dont recognise it when you see it

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

jeez...you're killn' me...

Bad! Bad!!

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

I am watching a Fox News Alert reporting that Israeli Radio is reporting ground troop movement and air strikes into northern Gaza.

D-Day has begun in a matter or speaking. Time has run out.

I fear the missing soldier may not survive.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[pop 0]

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I fear the missing soldier may not survive.

Sad but true. :(

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Michele 1]

Link Yahoo News Story

"GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Israeli planes attacked three bridges in central Gaza, the military said Wednesday, and Israeli tanks were on the move after the government approved a limited operation — a response to a weekend Palestinian attack in which two soldiers were killed and a third captured."

And I've read elsewhere that Eqygt has moved 2500 troops to their border to prevent a mass exodus of Palestinians to Egypt. Haven't been able to confirm that, but it seems interesting...and I'm not sure how to interpret that (remembering the 6 Day War and all that...).

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

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I saw another article while I was trying to decide if I should chime in on this thread. It had a quote from a Palestinian man whose wife and 18 month old child are being held in an Israeli prison.

I'm having trouble finding the article - would you please link it? I'd appreciate the help.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[idrankwhat 0]

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D-Day has begun in a matter or speaking. Time has run out.
I fear the missing soldier may not survive.

From someone who has no vested interest in this, other than to help fucking fund it, I have one objective question. Not to sound insensitive but......why is such a big deal being made about the kidnap of one Israeli soldier when Israel has been targeting, shooting at, hitting/missing Palestinian leadership targets? And those misses by the way have resulted in collateral damage. I'm just trying to find out why one person's life is ok to waste but another's is sacred. A few years ago the Israelis bulldozed an American protester and there was absolutely no mention of it here on the US homefront. If she had been killed in Iraq or Iran we would have named the resulting lightning war after her.
I can't help but feel like I'm being sold something.

[miked10270 0]

A little background:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5119708.stm

And the latest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5123262.stm

And the US Administration position:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5119732.stm

As I said, Hamas has found it impossible to act as a government given it's charter. The kidnapping of this soldier and the predictable Israeli reaction has prevented "Hamas-the-government" moving to accept Israel.

In effect, the extremists win this one over the folk who want peace.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Gawain 0]

This is an idea which I agree with you about. Hamas, being elected to lead, has found it cannot function as a legitimate entity.

Israel gave them all the rope, they made their own noose.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[skydyvr 0]

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Whose land was the USA to begin with? Why are you just living here, it's not yours?

The USA currently belongs to those with more brains, weaponry, technology, and all around saavy than the previous residents.

Israel -- same idea.

As an expert on general history, what do you think is different now than in the previous ump-tee-ump years of human existance?

. . =(_8^(1)

[skydyvr 0]

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I say we build a wall around all of the middle east and let the jews and arabs/persians exterminate eachother...good riddance on all three....)

Well, your plan sucks because there's one group in there worth saving -- the Jews.

They are well worth protecting, if for no other reason than to enable their many positive contributions to mankind in the future as they have the last few thousand years.

Their loss would be a true mile-marker in the demise of us all. Can't say the same for the opposition.

. . =(_8^(1)

[kallend 2,038]

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Whose land was the USA to begin with? Why are you just living here, it's not yours?

The USA currently belongs to those with more brains, weaponry, technology, and all around saavy than the previous residents.

Israel -- same idea.

As an expert on general history, what do you think is different now than in the previous ump-tee-ump years of human existance?

Nothing is different. Who owned the land 2000 years ago is as relevant as the backside of the Moon.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skydyvr 0]

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Who owned the land 2000 years ago is as relevant as the backside of the Moon.

Yep. The enlightened solution would be to ignore the past and focus on real solutions that provide for peace, prosperity for all, and blah, and blah, and blah.

I, like you probably, wish it could happen.

. . =(_8^(1)

[tbrown 26]

Yeah and monkeys are flying out my butt in time for "Malcolm In the Middle". I hope the Israelis kill them all, just by way of saying howdy. Fuck 'em, they're vermin.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[skydyvr 0]

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Fuck 'em, they're vermin.

Those words are disgraceful.

. . =(_8^(1)

[idrankwhat 0]

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This is an idea which I agree with you about. Hamas, being elected to lead, has found it cannot function as a legitimate entity.

Israel gave them all the rope, they made their own noose.

It was not allowed to function as a legitimate entity. Right after the election (a democratic thing that we're "spreading") and before Hamas officially took over the leadership position the United States said "we won't deal with them", as did Israel. Israel also cut off the $25 million or so that they collect every month for the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians went for over two months without getting paid for their work. The US denied it but the plan was to make things difficult for the Palestinians to the point that they might call for a new election to replace the "ineffective" leadership. Pretty shitty if you ask me. We're spending billions of dollars to promote democracy (supposedly) but when the election doesn't go the way we intended then we ignore the results and try to remove the leadership.