aftermid 0 #101 July 11, 2006 Quote Votes... Its that simple... 1 in 3 american voters is Jewish. Acutally about 1.3% of the population are Jewish. All but 7 states have less than 1% Jewish population. http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org/Demographics/map_demographics.htm The State of Israel has an enourmous lobbying influence. I've never heard any substantial congressional debate over any aspect of the Israeli-Palistinian conflict; yet every other issue no matter how trivial and insignificant gets debated. Are steriods and gay marriage more important than Israeli-Palistinian conflict? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #102 July 11, 2006 QuoteHitler was an avowed christian(catholic) who stated that what he was doing was in the name of his lord and saviour (Hesus,druid messiah, predecessor of) jesus christ. all historical FACT. Yes. However, doing something in the name of a deity doesn't preclude having your own reasons behind your actions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #103 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteHitler was an avowed christian(catholic) who stated that what he was doing was in the name of his lord and saviour (Hesus,druid messiah, predecessor of) jesus christ. all historical FACT. Yes. However, doing something in the name of a deity doesn't preclude having your own reasons behind your actions. Yep! Quote“I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between Him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him.” --NAPOLEON BONAPARTE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #104 July 11, 2006 QuoteIn a nutshell, the Jews helped kill christ. I'm sure you know that even the Vatican has declared that's not true. but its hard to uproot something that has been drilled into people's minds for 2000 years. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #105 July 11, 2006 QuoteWhy should the average U.S.citizen care about what happens to and with the government of Israel. We seam so hung up on aid,welfare to the state of Israel but I never hear why. Because they are the good guys, and their enemies are the bad guys. Neither side is pure, but it is certain that Israel is not a threat to the rest of the world, but the evil of the islamofacists is, and they are now affecting all of the world. Time to pick sides. I'll stand on the side that does not think Hitler was a good guy. Many don't know enough about history to understand that it really is that simple: http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/IsraelPalestineTruth.htmPeople are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #106 July 11, 2006 QuoteYes. However, doing something in the name of a deity doesn't preclude having your own reasons behind your actions. true, though the Vatican was more than happy to help the Nazis (so were the swiss banks) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #107 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a nutshell, the Jews helped kill christ. I'm sure you know that even the Vatican has declared that's not true. but its hard to uproot something that has been drilled into people's minds for 2000 years. what do you mean by 'not true'? I'm not trying to nit pick here, but if my education serves me correctly (which it may not) in the 1960's or 1970's the Vatican said that it wasn't the Jew's 'fault' that Christ was crucified and that the world should not blame them. It pointed to the passage that said something like, "Forgive them, the Jews" bla bla bla. now to me, the Vatican is not saying, "The Jews did not kill Christ". The Vatican is saying, "The Jews should not be blamed for Christ's death." Those, are two entirely different statements, are they not?Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #108 July 11, 2006 QuoteIn a nutshell, the Jews helped kill christ. Convenient usage of language - just by inserting one little word: "The". What a great example of how what the definition of "the" is really does make a difference. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols committed the Oklahoma City bombing. They were also Army veterans. Does that mean "the" Army veterans did the bombing? Lee Oswald (presumably) murdered JFK. He was also a Texan. Does that mean that "Texas" or "the Texans" did it? Do we paint all Army vets, or all Texans, with the broad brush of guilt? Of course not. One little word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #109 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a nutshell, the Jews helped kill christ. Convenient usage of language - just by inserting one little word: "The". What a great example of how what the definition of "the" is really does make a difference. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols committed the Oklahoma City bombing. They were also Army veterans. Does that mean "the" Army veterans did the bombing? Lee Oswald (presumably) murdered JFK. He was also a Texan. Does that mean that "Texas" or "the Texans" did it? Do we paint all Army vets, or all Texans, with the broad brush of guilt? Of course not. One little word. Uh...not quite the same thing? Here, let me explain... (from the slate article I linked): In the Gospel of John, the phrase "the Jews" is used at least nine times to denote those who encouraged and assisted in Jesus' execution. In the Book of Matthew (27: 25-26) the Jews accept responsibility for the execution. When the Roman governor Pontius Pilate hesitates over deciding Jesus' fate, the Jews assembled before Pilate demand that Jesus be crucified, proclaiming "His blood be on us, and on our children." and a litte later... The small clique of Jewish authorities who were in league with the Romans does share responsibility for killing Jesus. But these authorities were distinct from the majority of the Jewish people, who had rallied around the charismatic figure. Thus some scholars have advocated substituting the terms "the authorities" or "the Temple leaders" for the collective term "the Jews" in the Gospels. suggest you bring up your edits about the word "The" with the Vatican directly, and the scholars they mention. so until man decides to change God's word (which is really what the bible represents, right?) looks like we'll be stuck with "The Jews" and your weak analogy.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #110 July 11, 2006 Quotenow to me, the Vatican is not saying, "The Jews did not kill Christ". The Vatican is saying, "The Jews should not be blamed for Christ's death." Those, are two entirely different statements, are they not? I'm not sure and there is a fine line of semantics between the two. as far as I know (and history supports that), crucifixion was a popular roman method and they've used it to put down any signs of idependance and leadership such the ones seen in christ (leaving aside the theological debate, there is no doubt he was leading a growing number of people at the time). where there jews involved? probably since it happened here and he lived among (and in some ways was) jews. its a bit strange that no roman blame is mentioned, or maybe not since history is written by those in control... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #111 July 11, 2006 jsut a point to the wise. when reading and quoting the gospels (or anything else) remember why they were written, what did the author try to gain and most of all, who was the audience at the time. if you consider all of that, it might strike you as strange that the all mighty pilate who was in charge "couldn't decide what to do" and that "the jews" were so eager to accept the blame for it for all eternity (would you?) anyway, i think it was meant to differ the early christianity from its jewish origins. sadly, over hundreds of years it became an axiom and slowly was accepted as simply true. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #112 July 12, 2006 QuoteIn a nutshell, the Jews helped kill christ.Jesus voluntarily laid down his life. According to Scripture he could have summoned legions of angels to protect him. The sin of every person, past, present, and future sent him to the cross. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #113 July 12, 2006 Quote Jesus voluntarily laid down his life. According to Scripture he could have summoned legions of angels to protect him. The sin of every person, past, present, and future sent him to the cross. Do you really believe this?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #114 July 12, 2006 Quoteyour weak analogy. All analogies have an inherent weakness, in that by definition they're comparisons of non-identical things. But they also make a point, and thus far you've failed to rebut mine with much more than "Hey, dude, it's not my idea – it's the Word of God." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #115 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a nutshell, the Jews helped kill christ.Jesus voluntarily laid down his life. According to Scripture he could have summoned legions of angels to protect him. The sin of every person, past, present, and future sent him to the cross. Please tell me how my sins, in my lifetime, sent Jesus to the cross. What mechanism was in place to allow someone 2000 years ago to even be aware of my existence in the here and now? Some sort of mysticism was in place? Did they use Tarot, astrology, Quija board? Or did they just "know" in the manner that believers "know" things?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #116 July 12, 2006 I remember when the movie Passion of the Christ was coming out. There were people calling Mel Gibson Anti-Semitic for stating what he and many believe to be historical fact. I guess if you ever mention Jews in a negative light you’re considered an anti-Semitic bastard who must be a Nazi. People need to get over them selves and not deny there past. Is it stupid to blame Jews for the death of Christ today? Yes Is it stupid to try to change history? Yes We should just look at just like any thing else that happened thousands of years ago. Every race every country has done something horrible in there past. I have to agree with Flaxori that history is written by the people in control. That would explain why the Palestinian side is often not mentioned, and they are made out to be all crazy.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #117 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn a nutshell, the Jews helped kill christ. I'm sure you know that even the Vatican has declared that's not true. but its hard to uproot something that has been drilled into people's minds for 2000 years. The Vatican deciding whether or not something is true is a very weak criteria for fact finding. On top of the fact that they are a highly politicized organization with a strictly enforced agenda; there's also the issue of their dogmatic belief system. They can change though if the evidence is strong enough. It only took them a few hundred years to formally acknowledge their mistreatment of Galileo. Think about it; every 6th grader capable of reading and applying a little common sense knew the Sun was at the center of the Solar System, but the official voice of Catholicism still had it's head in the sand. Pathetic. A history of acts like that make them an entirely uncredible source of information on any topic. Like most politicians, they have no integrity." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #118 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhy should the average U.S.citizen care about what happens to and with the government of Israel. We seam so hung up on aid,welfare to the state of Israel but I never hear why. Because they are the good guys, and their enemies are the bad guys. Neither side is pure, but it is certain that Israel is not a threat to the rest of the world, but the evil of the islamofacists is, and they are now affecting all of the world. Time to pick sides. I'll stand on the side that does not think Hitler was a good guy. Many don't know enough about history to understand that it really is that simple: http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/IsraelPalestineTruth.htm Who poses a greater threat to the rest of the World? A state with a Nuclear arsenal, and a histroy of aggression and hostility towards its neighbors; or a group of displaced people that really have no orgranized modern military and resort to blowing themselves up as a response to 21st Century weapondry? Is it terrorism if the bomb isn't made by a defense contractor? If the international community decided that some other oppressed group like say all people of African and Native American decent had a reporative and histrorical entitlement to the United States, and all non entitled people had to move to some section of the US, while the remainder of the land mass was turned over to the entitled groups. Would you just accept it? In your opinion, are all those that question or oppose the policies of the state of Israel anti-Semitic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #119 July 12, 2006 You asked me what the solution would be. To wrong a right you must give back what has been taken. Sorry I know you don’t like to hear that but the truth is never easy. There is no war in Europe and hasn’t been for a very long time. Time to go back home and give back the land. I find it disturbing that there are many Jews who are trying to get there land and property back the land that was taken from them during WWII and many are succeeding, but they are not willing to give the same benefit to the Palestinians.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #120 July 12, 2006 QuoteWho poses a greater threat to the rest of the World? A state with a Nuclear arsenal, and a histroy of aggression and hostility towards its neighbors; or a group of displaced people that really have no orgranized modern military and resort to blowing themselves up as a response to 21st Century weapondry? Is it terrorism if the bomb isn't made by a defense contractor? OMG. I am not alone. Someone else is able to see the facts. Thank you god there is hope some people still use their brain. Oh wait you must be a Nazi? You hate all Jews don’t you? I bet Hitler was your grandfather or something how dare you state facts when it makes Israel look bad. (Sorry couldn’t resist you have no clue how much that bull shit I have had to put up with just for stating simple facts)I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #121 July 12, 2006 QuoteI have to agree with Flaxori that history is written by the people in control. That would explain why the Palestinian side is often not mentioned, and they are made out to be all crazy. Personally I think its time for the Palistinians to sit down and make a peace that all of the parties in the middle east can LIVE with. BUT.. I do not think that is going to happen.. most of the countries there have tried over and over to wipe Israel off the map..over and over.. and it has not worked out so well. one thing the Israeli's are good at is kickin Arab butt......but the Arab's keep trying to do it again and again.. and then they bitch when they lose more territory. If the peace loving muslims...and I am sure there are some of them out there somewhere.....since they keep telling us all that Islam is a compassionate and accepting and peaceful religion....do not put a stop to the jihadis in their midst.... the Israeli's and the West have the means of wiping all the peace loving muslims off the face of this earth. I for one am getting sick and tired of seeing atrocities around the world in the name of Allah. One of these days you are going to go too far pushing our buttons and you WILL have a real HOLY WAR on your hands. If you cant actually live in peace with other people in the world who are not following your personal dogma.. as you are currently demonstrating.. and as you demonstrated all too well from the 7th to the 14th century... then perhaps its time to exterminate this scourge from our planet.. once and for all so the rest of us can actually live in peace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #122 July 12, 2006 It's all about sex. When you know you are never gonna get laid until you go to heaven, you blow yourself up. The quicker you do it; the faster you get laid.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #123 July 12, 2006 QuoteTo wrong a right you must give back what has been taken your assumption of taken is flawed. why not give back the jewish homeland? it was taken from them. QuoteThere is no war in Europe and hasn’t been for a very long time. Time to go back home and give back the land. I am home. jews ended up in europe, Africa, Asia, etc because their home was taken from them, now they have it back. but talking about returning stuff taken, how about all of the arab jews' property that was taken from them when they were kicked out ? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #124 July 12, 2006 QuoteWho poses a greater threat to the rest of the World? A state with a Nuclear arsenal, and a histroy of aggression and hostility towards its neighbors that's a load of crap. name one war that Israel had started? and as for nuclear arsenal, if Israel indeed has it since the late 60's and hasn't used it when it was close to destruction in 73, then its more responsible with it than 99% of the world. QuoteIn your opinion, are all those that question or oppose the policies of the state of Israel anti-Semitic? no. some are, and some are not. most simply don't know the real story and are led by cheap propaganda and lies. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #125 July 12, 2006 one reason the US prefers isreal over arab countries.... after 9/11 which group was dancing in the street celebrating thousands of dead americans? hm..... MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
